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  #1  
Old 11-15-2010, 08:17 PM
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Default Good 44 mag SWC loads

I'd like to find a good load for my 6 1/2 in model 29-2 using SWC or RNFP 240gr lead bullets. I'd like them to be as hot as possible with out causing leading problems. The hardness would be around 15 BHN. Oh and no gas check.

Anyone got a pet load?
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:20 PM
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This is somewhere between "mid-level" and "full-tilt".

If you want a max load, 20.6 grains of 2400.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:38 PM
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6.5 grains of 231 has served me well over the past 25 yrs. Best (back when I kept track) 11 rounds one hole, silver dollar sized with one flyer caused by me! That was shot at 25 yards with a 29-2 that had a 8 3/8's barrel. Lost it in a home robbery. That was in 90 still miss that gun!
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:51 PM
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Lightbulb YMMV!

My experience with cast bullets (boolits to those that frequent another site!):

Too soft and too small driven too light is a bad thing.
Too soft and is the right size or bigger, drive it like you stole it under 1300fps.
Too hard and too small driven too light is a bad thing.
Too hard and is the right size or bigger, drive it like you stole it over 1600fps. To clarify one point, after 1600fps, in my Marlin 1894 and accuracy begins to suffer drastically.

All of the above is without gas checks. I get virtually no leading. A flake here or there but usually gone with 2 wet patches.

What you need to do is determine your cylinder throat size and go from there. It is that size and bullet fit that will determine how successful you are with lead bullets (boolits ) in your particular firearm.

The old 7-9gr load of Unique under a Keith style LSWC is a good load. His load of 2400 will work in some firearms. Just make sure you work up to it. 2400 is much more forgiving on lighter loads than other "magnum" powders.

To be honest though, with the right fit and hardness, your revolver should be able to turn out some 1300fps 240-250gr loads with not too much problem.

I am using a full charge of H110/W296 in my M629 Classic with a 5" barrel. I have gotten consistently more than 1300fps from it with this load.

Remember one thing; start low and work up. With H110/W296 there is a limit on how low you can go. Make sure you check current data before loading anything.

Hope this helps!
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:26 AM
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Ross Seyfried suggested a slightly reduced but safe load for older 29s
in an old magazine article I read using 23grs of 296-110 with 240-250gr
cast bullets.This, tried in my 4" 29-2 with 250 gr bullets yielded just
under 1200fps. Power without any leading at all seems unlikely.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just for fun View Post
6.5 grains of 231 has served me well over the past 25 yrs. Best (back when I kept track) 11 rounds one hole, silver dollar sized with one flyer caused by me! That was shot at 25 yards with a 29-2 that had a 8 3/8's barrel. Lost it in a home robbery. That was in 90 still miss that gun!
I have to agree! This is a great load for targets, but you do have to match bullet size with your gun then very little if any leading at all. I also stumbled across 7grs. of AutoComp with the same results and 6grs. of WST, all of these will shoot stellar groups in my 629-4 with a 8 3/8 barrel or my Ruger Bisley 44 mag.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:19 PM
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My 29's like 22g W296 with a WLP under either the 250g Keith or 265g Thompson with or without the gas check.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:20 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Originally Posted by alwslate View Post
Power without any leading at all seems unlikely.
I think that is a very polite way to call me someone that doesn't tell the truth!

When I say I get no leading, that is just what I mean. Leading to me is a "coating" in the barrel where at its worst point makes the lands almost invisible. I do not get that kind of leading, period.

I have had that kind. It was from undersized bullets cast by others that were too hard.

Since I cast, I can alloy my material to be the right hardness and size to give me the results I have stated. I shoot a lot of cast handgun bullets from my carbine rifles. I use no gas checks and have enjoyed no leading in them with loads to the 1800fps mark. A flake here, and a flake there, but that is all.

I have had pictures of cleaning my 45Colt Ruger after shooting loads that were in the 1400fps realm here on the forum. I intentionally showed the patches and they tell the whole story. No more than a flake or two.

I am not the only one that enjoys that kind of cast bullet performance. If you are tied into commercial cast, you may never get it though, not unless your caster has several sizes and alloys.

FWIW
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:44 PM
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2400 was supposedly developed for the 22Hornet, but I think it was developed by visionaries who knew that there would be a 44 magnum some day.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:10 PM
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My favorite 44 Mag plinking/target load is 10.0gr WSF and a cast 240gr bullet for around 1100fps. This works well if the bullet is fairly hard.

Power Pistol is another good powder and as posted above 11.0gr is just about right.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
I think that is a very polite way to call me someone that doesn't tell the truth!

When I say I get no leading, that is just what I mean. Leading to me is a "coating" in the barrel where at its worst point makes the lands almost invisible. I do not get that kind of leading, period.

I have had that kind. It was from undersized bullets cast by others that were too hard.

Since I cast, I can alloy my material to be the right hardness and size to give me the results I have stated. I shoot a lot of cast handgun bullets from my carbine rifles. I use no gas checks and have enjoyed no leading in them with loads to the 1800fps mark. A flake here, and a flake there, but that is all.

I have had pictures of cleaning my 45Colt Ruger after shooting loads that were in the 1400fps realm here on the forum. I intentionally showed the patches and they tell the whole story. No more than a flake or two.

I am not the only one that enjoys that kind of cast bullet performance. If you are tied into commercial cast, you may never get it though, not unless your caster has several sizes and alloys.

FWIW
Ok Skip, I confess to being a reloader since the late 60s who
has never cast a single bullet. I buy most of my cast bullets
at gun shows and have to take what I can get in the way of
quality. Casting your own gives you much more ability to
optimize your bullet quality for your guns.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2010, 09:43 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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al,
With what you have had to deal with then, your statements above are completely true. Buying cast bullets at gun shows, while being the most economical is hardly the best scenario for achieving the best fit and hardness for your firearms.

So, in that, I agree with you.

It is too bad though. What calibers do you shoot? Maybe I can send you some of my homemade boolits for you to try. Since we are talking about the 44Mag, I have some H&G #503 clones and a 200gr LRNFP. I would be glad to send you 50 of each, free of charge of any kind, to try.

Drop me a pm with an address and while it may be a couple of weeks, gotta work you know, I promise I'll send a care package to you.

A little information about your firearms would be helpful too. Throat size and how hard you want to drive them would be good to know too.

I'm sure that over your long reloading career, you have picked up some exceptional information to help others. Maybe we can help you back in this area!
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:20 AM
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I appreciate all the replies, lots of good info. At present I do not cast my own bullets, with the exception of some .32 cal. out of a Lee mould. I have been loading for probably over 30 years and am very comfortable with it, however loading with lead is something I have just really gotten into. Economics is the real reason for turning to lead, but I am learning that it is more versatile than I thought. I started loading .38s and have just started play with .357s. I have been loading .357s with a 158gr. SWC and 14grs. of 2400, and find them very accurate and no real sign of leading. I always thought you could not push a lead bullet over 1000fps but as has been stated here with correct dia., hardness, and also I am told lube, this is not the case.

I buy my bullets from a caster here in central Pa., Randal Moyer, and have been really pleased with his work. He has two dia. to choose from in .44 cal., .429 and .430. I am heading up his way to do a little turkey, bear, and deer hunting and if I can, will stop in and see what he has on hand, or order some. I would like to drive lead loads close to my jacket loads if possible and I think I can. My jacketed loads are .240 XTPs over 21grs. of 2400.

Any thoughts on bullet style? I can get BBSWC or BBRNFP.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphK22 View Post
Any thoughts on bullet style? I can get BBSWC or BBRNFP.
I have tried both and have not seen an appreciable difference in performance between the two. This is assuming we are talking about the typical BBSWC 240 gr. bullet that most casters sell, not a true Keith bullet. The common SWC nose is about the same length as the RNFP, and the driving band area about the same. I have some Keiths, though, and it is a whole different design.

SWC cut a cleaner hole, and might be better if you are shooting game.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:17 PM
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Both bullets are cast from a Magma Engineering mould.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:10 PM
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I like 7.5 grains of 231 in a magnum case under a cast 240-250 grain bullet for about 950fps. This is by no means a hot load for the 44 magnum so it should be safe in your 29-2. Although I would not abuse a 29-2 with "the hottest" load, 1300 with cast and 2400 or H110/296 shouldn't be a concern. You will probably find better accuracy with a .430 bullet. Measure your throats as the 29-2 era usually runs a little big. You might even want to try .431 or .432 if available.
As for thought on style, either that you are asking about should be fine but why don't you try both and see what your gun prefers? I usually shoot BBSWC when I opt for commercial cast. Have you tried Penn Bullets? If you cast, try Lyman 429244 (with or without the gas check). I have had great results with this bullet.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2010, 02:50 PM
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Does anyone like 10.0 Unique under a 250 Keith SWC?

Last edited by shil; 11-20-2010 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Slip. Powder goes under a bullet, not over.
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:02 PM
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20.0 gr 2400, Lyman 429421, WLP primer. Good for about 1250 fps our of my 5 1/2" Redhawk; have never clocked it in the 4" M29.
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
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Does anyone like 10.0 Unique under a 250 Keith SWC?
John Taffin likes it. I don't care for Unique. Different strokes...
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:49 PM
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i do 10.5gr.of unique under a 240 lswc
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
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Does anyone like 10.0 Unique under a 250 Keith SWC?
I used Unique years ago both hot and mild for the 44, but eventually settled on 2400 for hot and Unique for mild.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:04 PM
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I've convinced myself that I get better results with cast lead bullets in the .44 Magnum using Unique or 2400 and H 110 for use with jacketed bullets. I've not even tried H 110 with cast bullets. Seems there was once some caution against using H 110 with cast bullets so I kept it away from them.

There may be nothing to it if Skip is having a good time with it.

A stupendously fine mild load in my 8 3/8-inch Model 29 is 8.0 grains of Unique behind a 245-250 grain lead SWC. This load clocks 949 fps from the revolver's long barrel.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
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I used Unique years ago both hot and mild for the 44, but eventually settled on 2400 for hot and Unique for mild.
Same here. Or Universal Clays.

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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
A stupendously fine mild load in my 8 3/8-inch Model 29 is 8.0 grains of Unique behind a 245-250 grain lead SWC. This load clocks 949 fps from the revolver's long barrel.
Yep and this "mild" load is more than the equivalent of a factory .45 Colt which has taken everything on the North American continent. It takes a LOT of animal to stop one.
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:47 AM
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i just started loading for the 44, as i have my first one, a minty 629-4 5". 10gr unique under a beartooth 250gr keith, drilling the bull first time out. full grain under max published load, easy on the hand and gun, should shoot through anything. taking it with me tomorrow for bear and in a couple weeks for deer...
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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I've convinced myself that I get better results with cast lead bullets in the .44 Magnum using Unique or 2400 and H 110 for use with jacketed bullets. I've not even tried H 110 with cast bullets. Seems there was once some caution against using H 110 with cast bullets so I kept it away from them.

There may be nothing to it if Skip is having a good time with it.

A stupendously fine mild load in my 8 3/8-inch Model 29 is 8.0 grains of Unique behind a 245-250 grain lead SWC. This load clocks 949 fps from the revolver's long barrel.
Been a user of 110/296 since I started reloading the 44 mag in the early 80's. I have never used anything but my own cast bullets from the beginning. Gas checks are nice for this, but not necessary.

Further exploding myths, I use WLP and WSP primers for all my 110/296 loads in 357 & 44. No unburned powder or issues of any kind and excellent accuracy. WLP used to be marked std or magnum, but today they are not and the WSP is not a magnum primer.

110/296 must be loaded within 10% of max however as it gets squirrelly otherwise. It also needs a well sized case and a good crimp for uniform combustion.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:27 PM
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I have long used 7gr IMR700X and a 240-250gr swc. It clocks about 1000fps is easy to remember and yields 1000rds per pound. A buddy of mine on the forum has worked up to about 9-9.5grs of the same powder and is getting great results.
Pre-29 circa 1957 with my load
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Old 11-25-2010, 03:41 PM
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Been reloading for 40 years. I have settled on two general purpose loads for 44 and 357 K frames.

In 44 any cast bullet 240-260 SWC over 17 grains of 2400. Shoot this load in a 29-3 6" and a 629-2 4". Meets all my 44 Magnum needs. And no switching loads for different guns.

I stalk and still hunt without a blind and take whitetails under 50 yds.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:40 AM
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I've settled on two loads for the 44 Mag. I have enough guns in this caliber that I would have a stockpiling/record-keeping nightmare if I didn't have a couple "standard loads" that work on all of them. My two loads are:

#1 Load -- 270gr Keith SWC (custom mould I designed) with 7.5grs of W231 (same powder as HP-38 or SMP-231) in Magnum cases with Win. LP primers. I tested up to 9.0grs and down to 5.5grs. 7.5grs had good accuracy and power with low recoil and muzzle blast. Lighter loads also shared these characteristics, except for the power bit. At 7.5grs, I got the following velocities on a 70-degree day:

S&W 629-4 w/ 5" barrel: W231 load: 891 fps (avg)
S&W 629-1 w/ 6" barrel: W231 load: 923 fps (avg)
Ruger Flattop 6.5" bbl.: W231 load: 938 fps (avg)
Win. Trapper 16" barrel: W231 load: 1070 fps (avg)
Marlin 94 20" Micro bbl.: W231 load: 1095 fps (avg)

As you can see, this load is subsonic (just barely supersonic in the 20" carbine) in most firearms, but is fairly high velocity and therefore power. With a heavier, better-shaped bullet, it is more powerful than the 45ACP +P loads.

#2 Load -- 285gr Lyman 429640 RNFP-GC (custom "fat" mould that casts .433" to fit Marlin micro-grooves and large-cylinder-throats) with 18.5grs AA#9 (which I find to be a ball-powder version of 2400 - it's actually slower than 2400, but faster than W296/H-110) in Magnum cases with Win. LP primers. This is much lower than a max load, but still gives good velocities:

S&W 629-4 w/ 5" barrel: AA#9 load: 1248 fps (avg)
Ruger Flattop 6.5" bbl.: AA#9 load: 1297 fps (avg)
Win. Trapper 16" barrel: AA#9 load: 1540 fps (avg)
Marlin 94 20" Micro bbl.: AA#9 load: 1581 fps (avg)

Note this load hits the minimum 1250fps that I set to be a real "magnum" load with flatter trajectory, more power, and ability to cause a hollow-point to open up reliably (I also have a HP version of this mould) in the shortest barrel length I have. Also note that it does not hit 1600fps, which is the threshold that Lyman and many casters feel is the upper limit for cast bullets of softer alloy or in Micro-groove barrels.

Both of these loads are very accurate and powerful. The main difference in use for me is whether I feel I need the flatter trajector or extra penetration of the higher-power load.
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44 magnum, 45acp, 629, carbine, colt, commercial, crimp, m29, m629, model 29, primer, redhawk, ruger, sig arms, subsonic, thompson, universal

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