My father gave me 7 boxes of these rounds he reloaded 15 years ago. I have not fired any but the formula is hotter than recommended on the web sites which I checked. I would be shooting them with an older stainless M60 and 19-3. Is this a safe load for either gun?

That sounds more like a possible 38-44 level load to me. If your Model 60 is one of the 357 Mag ones, it may be fine. I'd try them in at least an L-frame though.

Edit: I just checked a 38-44 reference and it is a little on the low end for full 38-44 performance (ancient forerunner of the 357 Mag) where the loads with WW296 would start around 14gr with a 158gr bullet. But they do appear to be in 38+P territory. Probably just fine in your Model 19 that being the case.

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" I said, good DAY! "

I would just have one caution. W296/H110 HATES to be downloaded too much. Since it has turned cold in our area and you don't state what kind of primer is used, don't try any quick follow up shots outside until you are sure they will go bang consistently.

What usually happens to downloaded H110/W296 rounds is that the powder doesn't burn and you get a bullet lodged in your barrel. The first one is not good but should you chase it with several more, it only goes downhill from there!

I'm not sure I want to shoot 45 ACP loads made with WW296 / H110 !

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S&WHF 366

It sounds like you are saying that the powder type is incorrect for the load. Should I be ok to fire them to get the brass or should I start fresh? I wouldn't want to cause a problem. By the way the Model 60 is a .38 so apparently I shouldn't shoot them in that gun. Thanks for your replies.

It might be best to tear those down. Downloading H-110/Win296 is thought to be a bad idea. They might be perfectly safe, but unless you can find some published data that recommends that load as safe, I would think it is too far below normal pressures for those powders. It would make me a bit nervous.

I don't think it would be a problem in the model 19, but I would not shoot them in the model 60.

I base this on my personal data which shows that I loaded and fired a similar load in a model 14 6" gun.

The load was 10 grs. 2400 and the 158 grain Remington bullet. The velocity was 950 fps.

Now, 296 is a little slower burning rate than 2400, so I would expect about 900 fps or so.

This is definitely +P and maybe even +P+, but the K frame gun should handle it well.

FWIW, I'm VERY reluctant to shoot anybody else's reloads. Especially if they are pushing specs by design. I'm sitting on 500 rounds of 45 auto rim for just that reason right now. I've had revolver come apart in my hand and it's not something I want to experience again.

That said, you know the source well and he still has all 10 fingers (right?) so try em in the mod 19. Just watch for pressure signs and excessive muzzle blast. You'll know within a few rounds if it's: a) safe b) something your going to enjoy in a mod 60.
Worse case you can pull the heads and reload with a faster/more forgiving powder like Clays, bullseye or W231.

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Dave

I have a 1995 Hercules load manual and it lists 2400 with a 158gr LSWC bullet. Their Max load for a .38 Special +P is 7.8gr with a pressure of 17,700 PSI. That load of 10.0gr 2400 is probably slightly over the 20,000 PSI limit for a .38 Special +P. (but probably not by much) I wouldn't shoot it in your M60 but it will be fine in your M19 without a doubt. The same manual lists a charge of 15.3gr 2400 under a 158gr LSWC for their .357 Magnum Max charge with pressures of 34,000 PSI. A charge of only 10.0gr is a light Magnum load at best and will not harm a M19.

**EDIT**
Sorry I posted data for 2400 instead of W296, my mistake. I left the data up just in case someone can use it. I'll look through my older books tonight and see if I have older data for W296 too.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I'd like to know where you guys are finding data for this combo? Sounds like something I'd like to see.
Plus I can't really give an opinion unless someone posts the data (and age of it), or links me too it.

Also, comparing 296 to 2400 burn rate for a charge comparison is a bad idea. Their burn rate could be worlds apart and there just isn't a powder in between. Its just not a good idea to have inexperienced reloaders reading statements like that.

+1 what he said. If it was me, I would knock them down.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Hear, hear!

I third the suggestion that you NOT fire those downloaded WW296 cartridges. WW296 was designed for magnum pressures in the middle-to-high 30,000 CUP, and the limiting pressure for +P .38 Special is in the high teens CUP.

It would be ill-advised to fire those reduced loads. If the powder manufacturer warns you not to do it, there must be good reasons!

I appreciate all of your responses, I feel like there is enough gray area with this load that I will knock them down and not risk shooting them.

I don't recall ever seeing any .38 Special data using 296. As has been mentioned, it needs higher pressure to burn correctly....far above what a .38 Special should be loaded to. I haven't used any in a while, but it really does need to be loaded to near maximum to just come close to burning well and even then leaves a lot of unburned powder residue. Magnum loads + long barrels is where it shines, but no place else.

I would pull them down, discard the powder and start back up with something more suitable.

According to Speer #10 these loads are two tenths over their starting load which is within standard pressures . "MAX" is 10.7 for a safe +P loading. If you trust your father's loading practices SHOOT THEM.(They should give about 900fps from a 6 inch barrel )

Those loads don't seem too much out of the ordinary, except I wouldn't fire those with a J frame gun

Any solid S&W K frame, Colt 357, Ruger .357, Taurus, etc..should handle those charges/bullet weights.

FWIW: SPEER reloading manual number 11 shows 9.8 grains WW296 as a starting charge with a 158 grain Jacketed bullet, and 10.7 grains as a maximum charge with a 158 grain jacketed slug.

They step up the charge some for their 160 jacketed slugs to a maximum of 10.9 grains of WW 296.

I'd fire those rounds, however, I'd keep them for warmer temperatures, because as someone else has mentioned....296 is not stable in cold climates.....I can personally vouch for this fact.

This is not a reduced load of WW296 in a 38 Special +P, nor is it a 'hot' load. It would be reduced for a 357 Mag, but not in the 38SP. If you have older loading manuals, it was a common listed load.

It is not a common powder for use in 38SP now since there are other better options, but it was at one time 2 decades ago, much like Lil'Gun has applications now in many high velocity/low pressure handgun loads.

Just wanted to clarify that.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Although the original poster appears to have employed good sense in pulling the loads I would like to add.

NEVER load W296 or H110 below the recommended 10% off of maximum loads.

I loaded both powders "down" and at what appeared to be safe loads they produced velocities [chronographed] that were down to 400 fps!

The pic of the .45 auto barrel confirms what can happen.

My low velocities varied as much as 100 fps, the loads were 400 to 500 fps with all other factors equal. One bullet too slow, a stuck bullet, inattention by the shooter [we are all capable of that!], and another bullet down the bore.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.