Elmer Keith

firearmsunlimited · #1 12-22-2010, 09:09 AM

Does a copy of the origninal drawing done by Elmer Keith of his 250 grain .44 lead semi wad cutter bullet that he designed during the development of the .44 Magnum exist any where?

sceva · #2 12-22-2010, 02:39 PM

Not sure if he actually made a drawing. I believe Lyman / Ideal made the original molds and they probably cut the cherry based on a discription from him as to dia., width of bands and lube groove(s) etc, I believe I read that he specified square corners in the lube groove and when they later canged to radius bottom grooves he had a fit.

Gun 4 Fun · #3 12-22-2010, 03:19 PM

Doug,

Like we talked about on the phone Marshall Stanton at Beartooth bullets is suppsed to have a copy of the original drawing, and had his cherries cut to it. He is such a nice guy, I am sure he would be willing to tell you as much as he can.

Homie · #4 12-22-2010, 05:18 PM

Doug,

Elmer's bullet- the original 429421, in all three versions- was designed in the late '20s for the Special. Elmer just loaded it up for the Mag almost 30 years later!

Good shooting.

Catshooter · #5 12-22-2010, 10:30 PM

There is no evidence that Elmer ever drew up his designs. Would love to see some though.

Cat

Alk8944 · #6 12-22-2010, 10:56 PM

In one of his books, "Sixgun Cartridges and Loads", EK describes how, in 1928 and with input from Harold Croft. A sketch, not a formal "drawing", was made and sent to Lyman where their "Mr. Pickering" made a steel model based on the sketch. This steel model was sent to EK for his approval. "This first Lyman-Keith bullet was in 250 grain weight and is listed in the catalog as #429421."

This is found on page 61 of the cited reference. The only copyright claimed was in 1936 and has long ago expired.

So, if there are any drawings they were created by Lyman and probably still are in their possession. This isn't to say that there aren't reverse-engineered drawings from bullets cast in early moulds.

Very interesting book. It was re-printed in the 1960-70s by The Gun Room Press from the original 1936 publication by Thomas Samworth.

firearmsunlimited · #7 12-22-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

In one of his books, "Sixgun Cartridges and Loads", EK describes how, in 1928 and with input from Harold Croft. A sketch, not a formal "drawing", was made and sent to Lyman where their "Mr. Pickering" made a steel model based on the sketch. This steel model was sent to EK for his approval. "This first Lyman-Keith bullet was in 250 grain weight and is listed in the catalog as #429421."

This is found on page 61 of the cited reference. The only copyright claimed was in 1936 and has long ago expired.

So, if there are any drawings they were created by Lyman and probably still are in their possession. This isn't to say that there aren't reverse-engineered drawings from bullets cast in early moulds.

Very interesting book. It was re-printed in the 1960-70s by The Gun Room Press from the original 1936 publication by Thomas Samworth.

It would be very interesting to see a copy of the drawing if it is still in Lyman's possession. It is very doubtful that they would ever release a copy since they have modified the groove angles, etc. from that of the origninal Keith/Croft bullet. Marshall Stanton's bullets appear to be an accurate representation based upon the verbal descriptions that I have read.

firearmsunlimited · #8 12-22-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun

Doug,

Like we talked about on the phone Marshall Stanton at Beartooth bullets is suppsed to have a copy of the original drawing, and had his cherries cut to it. He is such a nice guy, I am sure he would be willing to tell you as much as he can.

Received the first batch of Marshall's bullets and based upon written descriptions of the original they do appear to be an accurate representation. I am not quite sure if he does have an actual drawing copy or simply had the cherries cut based on written descriptions. It would be interesting to find out.