They list loads for Original Colt Revolvers and then for the bad boy Rugers , TC and Freedom Arms.

Now the SW 25 high number dash, MT Gun is neither of these.

So I am figuring the SW is somewhere in between? Just curious as to how hot this gun can go without damage. Not that I need to, just to know it's limit. My 629 can satisfy the recoil need when necessary.

I have read the recent posts on some of the load data.

45 Colt load that is close to 44 mag

Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

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Still Running Against the Wind

Most sources lump the 25-5 in with the Col SAA 2nd and 3rd generation revo's. That is exactly why Pearce and Linebaugh among others, have written extensively on the subject.

The 25-#'s are basically in between the SAA and the Blackhawk, leaning very heavily towards the side of the Blackhawk where strength in concerned.

I can tell you, that 13 gr. load of HS-6 is a good one, but out of a Mountain Gun it gets old pretty quick unless you have some Pachmayr grips or shooting gloves. Out of a Blackhawk with the plowhandle grip, the recoil doesn't smack your thumb joint like on the Mtn Gun, so it's plenty comfortable. I downloaded that 13 grains to 11.5 grains and got spectacular accuracy and shoot all day comfort, and it is still above a standard pressure .45 Colt load.

The Mtn. Gun just wears out my hand faster than a Blackhawk, so I stick to standard velocity/pressure Colt loads.

In Brian Pearce's article on the subject of loading for the 45 Colt, he covers this issue pretty conclusively.

Handloader Issue #246 - April/May 2007

There are three levels of loads in that article, 14,000psi, 20,000psi & 30,000psi.

I have learned that the M25 -5 is not the same thing as the M25 with higher dash numbers. There have been some performance upgrades that make them "stouter" than the -5. Still, they are not 44Mag either.

Talking with John Linebaugh on the phone one night gave me some good insight into this issue. The open frame of the "N" frame requires that one watch the pressure applied to it, in his opinion. Seemed to make some sense to me.

Now that being said, the 44Mag full house loads produce 36,000psi and an "N" frame can take that with no problem. The difference in cylinder wall thickness makes me think I should not go to that level simply because there isn't as much "meat" between the wall and the outside of the cylinder. To me, that would mean that the 30,000psi loads would be OK for the higher dash M25/M625 guns.

I can tell you this first hand though, they ain't no fun to shoot!
Well, they are, just not for extended periods! I haven't shot them in the M25 -7 yet, but in the Ruger, they are a handful.

John Linebaugh has some loads that he regularly shoots in his Mountain Gun. The HS-6 load is one of his working loads. He also has some 260gr bullets going 1200fps too!

Read this article:
Linebaugh's Custom Sixguns - The .45 Colt - Dissolving the Myth, Discovering the Legend

Thanks all. I printed out the articles.

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Still Running Against the Wind

The higher dash number versions of the 25 aren't actually any stouter. They are much more durable though.

The guns in the 25 series are all equally strong, but later versions (higher dash #'s) have the endurance upgrades in them, which makes them stay tight far longer. Their cylinders are made from the exact same steels, and share indentical wall dimensions, as does the rest of the frame and barrel. The endurance package came out in three steps, and was incorporated into model 29 .44 magnum first, but was quickly added to all other N frames along the way.

In very late 1987 S&W started better hardening the yoke or "crane", lengthened the bearing pads on the yoke, both of which are designed to minimize, or eliminate cylinder endshake from developing.

In '88 they introduced the new style yoke retention system, which is the spring loaded yoke screw in the side plate that mates with the V groove on the yoke, and is self centering/aligning, which is designed to eliminate yoke endshake. The centerpin was lengthened slightly to go deeper into the recoil shield when the cylinder was closed, and a stonger centerpin spring was added to eliminate the cylinder unlatching and coming open under recoil. They also introduced the radiused stud package (designed to eliminate hammer, trigger, rebound slide studs, etc., from breaking off at the wall of the frame) and "floating hand" to eliminate trigger kickback, which was later switched back to the original design when the bolt block was introduced. These were introduced on the 29-4, and 25-7.

In very late 1989 the final additions to the endurance package were introduced that included the elongated cylinder stop notches, lengthened cylinder stop window, and slightly longer cylinder stop. This was designed to keep the cylinder stop from unlatching under recoil and allowing the cylinder to rotate backwards leaving the just fired chamber under the hammer when the gun was cocked again. The final addition was the internal bolt block, that was designed to eliminate the trigger "kickback" sensation that many of us had felt when shooting full power loads. These were introduced on the 29-5, and the longer cylinder stop notches and slightly larger cylinder stop was introduced 25-9.


These factors will help keep any gun with these features tight almost indefinately with SAAMI spec ammo for the .44, and with the loads that Pearce lists as being at or under 23,000 psi for the .45 Colt. Some of Linebaugh's loads are running 30,000 - 32,000 psi, and may still accelerate wear on a model 25 (even the -7, and -9 version), but they won't blow one up as is commonly believed. I have run plenty of his loads that are listed at 25,000 psi on his site through my 25-5, and 25-7 however, with no problems what so ever. Nothing has loosened up or broken. Cases eject just fine, but as Skip mentioned, recoil is now on par with a .44 magnum, so if recoil bothers you, don't use them. Performance (energy wise) is also on par with a .44 magnum, with the added benefit of a wider permanent wound channel from the .45 caliber bullet.

No, recoil in handguns does not bother me at all, It does in rifles. I can "give" with a handgun, rifles tend to smash my brittle shoulder bones.I prefer my 4" 629 over the 6" and can shoot that for good many rounds.

My yet to be released from pawn shop jail is a model 25-13 Mt Gun. We do not see them around here often, maybe due to lack of Mountains.
But then there are 2 of the Ruger Super 454 Casull sitting up there, so go figure. Several SW 500's and 460 have come and gone.

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Still Running Against the Wind

IMO you really don't need to push the .45 Colt too hard for it to do a good job. As I'm sure you know the 45 Colt with a 250gr bullet traveling at only 900 fps would take a horse right out from under it's rider. That's some good killin power IMO.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Aim low Sheriff, they be riding Shetlands

I use very thick paper and cardboard.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Ahhh, the dreaded thick cardboard! That changes everything...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I agree.

You don't need to run the .44 mag any harder either, (but we all do don't we?) to get good performance for most game or any man. But, it is nice to know that you can if you want to, whether for hunting or for just a fun day at the range.

OCD1,

Where are you buying your paper and cardboard at? Is that some of that newer style hurricane proof stuff?

If you don't mind the recoil, that 13 gr HS-6 load is golden.

Yep, it's part of the building codes, must withstand 100 mph winds cause that's what the build houses with down here.

That and Chinese Drywall. A major, major problem.Fortunately my home was built before all that horrible stuff and thin wall copper pipe.

Welcome to Chinesedrywall.com

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Still Running Against the Wind

Wow,
That's really some BS!

You can thank the annointed one for a lot of this stuff, since he needs to keep china happy by buying all their faulty garbage in return for them keeping his agenda going by buying our debt so he can keep going with all the spending.

I'm glad that I didn't have to work with any of that stuff when I lived there.

We can thank Clinton for granting China "Most Favored Nation" status and he did so for a paycheck. He sold us out!

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Where did I read that the starting charges in the Hodgdon Ruger only loads were about the right pressure for the M-25 S&W? Or was I "WRONG"!!!!!!! Wouldn't be the first time........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

<The final addition was the internal bolt block, that was designed to eliminate the trigger "kickback" sensation that many of us had felt when shooting full power loads, and it kept the cylinder centerpin in place, which kept the cylinder from actually opening under recoil (that was almost totaly limited to the .44 magnums though, as I have never heard, or read of anyone having it happen to them with any other caliber N frame). These were introduced on the 29-5, and 25-9.>

Gun4fun.........I have never seen that bolt block on any N-frame except the 29/629's. I am sure that none of my 625's have that extra part. That said, I believe the slot that this part rides in, is milled into the frame of my 625's. I suppose you could add this part if desired. Has anyone ever done this? I've always been of the opinion that the limiting factor on the 45Colt+P loads in a S&W N-frame was the cylinder thickness at the cylinder stop notches. I've never been willing to push the limits on either my 625-5 Classic or my 625-6 MG. They are almost to the point of being made of unobtanium if I had to pay to replace them!

tdan-

I should have made it more clear, or broken it up a bit differently in my paragraph on the last upgrades done in late '89.

In late '89 the longer stop notches were introduced on both the 29-5 and the 25-7, and the bolt block on the 29-5.

I will go back and edit the post to read that way, and to correct some info that was not correct as previously stated. I posted that from memory earlier, but then I double checked my technical info on all this and corrected the info about the bolt block helping to keep the cylinder closed (which it didn't have anything to do with), and added the info regarding the floating hand, and its later elimination once the bolt block was introduced, which was designed to eliminate the trigger kickback sensation.

My appologies to anyone this may have caused any confusion for.