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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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  #1  
Old 02-04-2011, 11:33 PM
DeerSpy DeerSpy is offline
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Question 38spl for bullseye match

I am getting into bullseye shooting and was thinking of getting a 38spl revolver for the center fire gun, which model and barrel length would be best?
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Old 02-04-2011, 11:51 PM
white cloud white cloud is offline
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k-38 six inch. there is nothing finer.
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:27 AM
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Colt Officers Model Match 6"for a stock gun . Has a faster twist than the K 38 plus chambers are cut tighter = more accuracy with 148 HBWC's . You could always rebarrel a K 38 with a faster twist . PPC guys have been using 1 in 14 & as fast as 1 in 10 . If your not going to use gun for DR matches you can also mount a red dot sight . All that said the 38 will hurt your scores more than help them . Also you have to shoot the 45 , you don't have to shoot the 38 . 45 makes a bigger hole which can help your score @ times . I also have a 52-2 but do not shoot it in matches . I do shoot a Marvel conversion in 22 matches ( set up with the same trigger as my 45 wadgun ) & 45 in CF & 45 matches . One grip one trigger to learn keeps things simple .
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:45 AM
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Default Revolver

No matter what you use, learn and maintain muzzle discipline. I've seen wheel gun shooters sweep the line when un-re-loading, because it's natural to bring the gun around. They were escorted off the range.

Hobie
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:04 AM
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A 6 inch model 14 is the S&W bullseye .38 spl.

/c
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2011, 10:42 PM
DeerSpy DeerSpy is offline
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Question

I might have the right gun then, I have a M14-3 but it is single action only and have not shot it much due to cant seem to find the right load have been using 148gr DEWC and bullseye and ww231, and don't know if I will be able to cock fast.

I like the ideal of using 45 in center fire and getting 22 on 45 frame can I put a 22 marvel on a S&W 1911 45 frame?
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:39 AM
CGM CGM is offline
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Getting decent scores in rapid fire with a double action revolver can be done. However, it's not an easy task. If you only have single action on that revolver, I'm not sure anyone can cock, aim and fire in the alloted ten seconds.

Yes, the marvel is made for 1911 frames. If you are serious about competitive BE, the Marvel .22 conversion and the .45 is the way to go as Boatbum suggested.
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Old 02-06-2011, 01:34 PM
OM18V OM18V is offline
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Sure it can be done. One of the regulars at our local range has shot nothing but wheel guns. All are Clark customs built on model 14, 17 and 625.

I've been giving it a go just for the challange of it. Remember, you only have to cock 4 times in 10 seconds.

Mike
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:26 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
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Smith came out with the 8 3/8" barrel because it's the max allowable sight radius under NRA rules . K 38 with the 8 3/8" is like shooting a rifle very accurate . Problems are holding gun still enough & sight alignment . Misalignment with longer barrel magnifies mistakes . That's why most shoot the 6" as it's more forgiving . For best accuracy use HBWC's forget about cast FBWC's & DEWC's . A swaged HBWC will outshoot them both especially @ 50yds . Plus you must push a cast bullet much faster to get best accuracy from them . Hotter load means slower recovery in timed & rapid fire 2/3 of a NRA match .
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:48 PM
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Always a good choice...#27
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File Type: jpg DSC01638.jpg (74.0 KB, 84 views)
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  #11  
Old 02-12-2011, 01:03 AM
MajorD MajorD is offline
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actually boatbum, the longer the barrel the less severe the effect on target of sight misalignment. My brother a long time revolver shooter since starting distinguished revolver matches finds the standard 158 gr lrn seems to shoot better than wadcutters. A surprise after years of shooting nothing but wadcutters.
A 6" k38/mod 14 is the classic bullseye revolver.
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  #12  
Old 02-12-2011, 01:04 AM
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got my start with a k22 in bullseye and still shoot it sometimes. no problem cocking in rapid fire with plenty of time to go.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2011, 02:09 AM
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Bullseye Smith Bullseye Smith is offline
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To be good in bullseye with a revolver - you must learn to shoot double action in all phases. I use the 32 Long round for center fire. The 38 will do fine with the HBWC. You may want to try some 38 short colts with a mild load for less recoil. Here is my 10-32 that I shoot:



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  #14  
Old 02-12-2011, 05:11 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
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Distinguished Revolver rules state " any safe ammo using a 158gr lead RN or SWC bullet" . Hence 148gr wadcutters are not legal for DR matches but are legal in a CF 900 & the Reeves match . 158 RN will often group better than a SWC . They're a bit harder to score . A stock S&W K38 will usually shoot 158gr better than a stock Colt OMM . When you switch to 148 HBWC's the Colt will outshoot the Smith . I've verified this by lots of Ransom rest testing over the years .
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2011, 11:56 PM
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valkyriekl valkyriekl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM View Post
Getting decent scores in rapid fire with a double action revolver can be done. However, it's not an easy task. If you only have single action on that revolver, I'm not sure anyone can cock, aim and fire in the alloted ten seconds.
I have no problem doing it -- in fact, all I shoot in Bullseye are S&W revolvers, and I shoot single action for every shot. "Crankin' and Yankin'", as they say. I'm currently classified as an Indoor Conventional Pistol Master and an Outdoor Conventional Pistol Expert, and I hold Distinguished Revolver badge #82, with my best 2700-aggregate score being 2584-86x and my best DR score at 285-8x, so I'd say I'm doing pretty well using this technique. I've still got a ways to go, but I think I can wring out an Outdoor Master classification this year.

---

The current Rule 3.1.4 of the NRA Pistol Rules rulebook states:

Quote:
3.1.4 Distinguished Revolver - The revolver must be capable of chambering and firing a 158-grain round nose or semi-wadcutter .38 Special cartridge. It must be a factory manufactured revolver with no external modifications except for stocks which may be modified or changed because of the size of the competitor's hand or to facilitate loading. Except for stocks and the honing of the sear or sear notch to make a more crisp trigger, and maintain a 2 1/2 lb. minimum trigger pull, no external or internal modification may be made to the revolver as manufactured and sold by the factory of origin. No parts may be removed from the revolver, either externally or internally, nor may any part be added. Specifically prohibited is any system of recoil control based upon compensators, barrel venting, barrel porting or weighted grips.

(a) Trigger - Must have single and double action capability and must be capable of lifting 2 1/2 lbs when the revolver is cocked for single action firing. Triggers will be weighed. Any trigger, sold by the manufacturer of the revolver, without modification, may be used.

(b) Sights - Fixed or adjustable rear sights may be used. An adjustable front sight is not allowed.

(c) Barrel - Length not to exceed six and one-half inches (6 1/2").

(d) Stocks - Except as set forth above, the right and left stocks must be mirror images of each other.

(e) Ammunition - Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter bullet only..

(f) The following are not allowed. Trigger Shoes, compensators of type or design; any external trigger stop device; any internal trigger stop not originally installed by the factory as original equipment in stock revolvers of the same make and model; tape on the stocks or stocks flared at the base.
Thus DeerSpy's single-action-only 14-3 would not be allowed in its current configuration for Distinguished Revolver (though if he were to find a complete K-frame hammer assembly with the DA sear, he could have it installed and fitted the gun would then be allowed).

Last edited by valkyriekl; 02-13-2011 at 12:00 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2011, 10:22 AM
CGM CGM is offline
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Valkyriekl,

Those are great scores! How do you do the recocking? Do you use your non-dominant hand or keep everything to one hand?
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM View Post
Valkyriekl,

Those are great scores! How do you do the recocking? Do you use your non-dominant hand or keep everything to one hand?
Re-cocking is done with one hand (the right/strong hand; the left/off hand is grabbing the belt buckle).

If I grip as high as I do in timed/rapid as I do in slow-fire, however, then I will have problems cocking the hammer while maintaining a consistent grip on the gun with my middle/ring/pinky fingers and palm: my palm will lose contact with the grip and then I'm only holding the gun by my fingers. Re-acquiring a good grip then takes time and wobbles the sights way too much for good hits to be anything but luck.

slow-fire grip:


My solution to that is to grip the gun a little lower (maybe about 1/8" to 1/4" of the grip frame is showing above my hand) in timed- and rapid-fire so that when I go to re-cock, the tip of the semi-target hammer spur contacts the middle of the pad of my thumb. Doing this, I can maintain my grip on the gun with my fingers and most of my palm, and after re-cocking the hammer (during the recovery period after the shot), all my thumb has to do is lay back down and lightly contact the grips and I'm back in business without losing too much time to reacquire my grip or sight picture.

timed/rapid grip:


timed/rapid recocking:


This does change the way the gun recoils, of course, but I also adjust the sights to compensate if I'm using the same centerfire/.45 load for the long and short lines (.22LR seems to be flat-shooting enough that I don't change the sights). Recently I've begun to use different long-line and short-line loads in .45ACP, and that seems to eliminate the need to change the sights at all (4.5gr W231/200gr LSWC for 50yds, 4.5gr W231/185gr LSWC for 25yds).
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:24 PM
MajorD MajorD is offline
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bullseye smith I have to say in many years of shooting bullseye you are the first shooter of experience I have ever encountered who shoots bullseye double action. never seen anyone shoot anything but single
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:56 AM
OM18V OM18V is offline
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Just for kicks I've been shooting a model 66 at my local bullseye club. Mostly shooting in the 80s all stages. On Monday I shot a 96-5x on the second relay rapid fire, single action. Shooting a wheelgun is bunches of fun. Looking to replace the 66.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:23 AM
BubbaBlades BubbaBlades is offline
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YouTube - S&W model15 vs dot.MOV
The .38 special is more accurate than most people believe. I shoot more than 26 guns chambered in .38 special. Almost all of them are totally stock (including the one in the above video) except for a different grip here and there. I stopped shooting bullseye before optical sights and special built guns became the norm. I had used S&W models 10, 14, 27, 28 & 66 in bullseye with very good results.
Mark
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  #21  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:37 PM
MajorD MajorD is offline
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bubba- nothing for me is more satisfying in the shooting realm than showing up to a bullseye match and being the only guy on the line with an ironsighted revolver- and placing in the top 5 competitors leaving the optic sighted guys scratching heads.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeerSpy View Post
I am getting into bullseye shooting and was thinking of getting a 38spl revolver for the center fire gun, which model and barrel length would be best?
Either a 6 inch S&W K-38 or a Colt Officers Model.
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1911, 22lr, 38spl, 45acp, bullseye, cartridge, colt, k-frame, k22, k38, m14, model 14, model 15, model 625, model 66, nra, ppc, wadcutter

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