What are your views of the practice of "harvesting" the original grips from a handgun, and then selling those grips separately?

(I'm not talking about finding some OEM grips in your parts box for a long-gone gun, and then selling those. I'm talking specifically about separating the original grips from a gun because, sold separately, the gun and grips will bring a higher total price.)

In starting this thread, I don't have any particular individual in mind, but I'm curious about how the practice is viewed generally among serious gun enthusiasts? Is it no big deal? Unethical? A good thing to do if the seller can make more money that way?

What say you, fellow Forum members?

Unethical? The gun belongs to him, right? How would ethics come into play?

He can do what he wants.

Different strokes, different folks

HARVESTING WOOD

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Sure you did

Thanks! I didn't realize there was already a thread addressing this issue.

Personally, I think it's unethical as all get-out, and shows a complete disrespect for the history of those firearms and those who collect them.

I have not, and will not, buy a pair of grips that someone indicates were taken off a firearm specifically to sell.

I have seen it at Gun Shops. Ethical or not?? It's their property they can do what they want. I think it's ridiculous the price of some wood grips. Yes, they are nice and add a lot to the gun as far as looks but they are still just two pieces of wood. I do not find them comfortable to shoot with. But as with anything boxes, grips, model numbers, supply and demand.

Have a real nice scope on a rifle? Lots of folks take them off and just sell the rifle.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I think that the grips come with the gun...break up the two and the gun should be worth less. Too bad that doesn't work out. The buyer who is generally a non collector doesn't know any different, and the grip buyer is simply happy he got a nice set of Targets or Combats.

In reality the OWNER of any package can do whatever he wants with it. I don't agree with breaking up an original boxed gun with papers and tools and selling it off piece by piece.

Few years back when ammo and primers were tough to find I knew several sellers at my local gun shows who really scalped buyers with their ridiculously high prices on ammo and primers. They didn't twist anyones arm to buy...but I still refuse to buy anything from those dealers.

Frank237

haven't done it and won't do it. consider the practice pathetic. have passed on guns from people that make it their way of doing business.

IMHO if the firearm has been displayed and offered for sale/trade with the original grips, then it is a "Packaged Deal".

So, let's say you want to be "ethical"...and you sell that gun with the original grips because, well, that's what you're supposed to do.

But, then, the next owner (the one that promised you he would keep that gun until the day he died and will it to his oldest son) takes the grips off and sells the grips and gun (with Goodyears installed) seperately and profits a few hundred bucks.

Doesn't that kinda make you a sucker...albeit an ethical one?

I learned this lesson the hard way...but it was with a motorcycle, not a gun.

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'Merica!

Beemer, I'm the one that started the last previous thread on this subject and totally agree with you.
If you were to post this in the SWCA section, most of those fellows would also agree as they are more serious collectors and purists.

In the strictest economic sense, you are certainly correct. If you own something legally and wish to sell it, and there is no force, coercion, or deception involved, then so be it.

But for those of us who are not quite that cold-blooded, who think of the historical value of our guns (assuming they have some historical value) and what they will mean to our children, and wish to preserve that value, the idea of taking the OEM grips off to sell them just doesn't seem right.

Over the years, like many of you, I have replaced the grips or other parts on a number of guns. But I've kept the OEM parts, packaged and labelled them, and set them inside my parts box so that when the time comes, my sons won't be scratching their heads and wondering what goes where. I've never taken a set of wood OEM grips off a firearm and sold them.

There's nothing you can do about that. Every hobby or business, especially motorcycling and guns, has its share of slugs and slimy SOBs who think nothing of taking advantage of others.

Sometimes the only thing you can do is look yourself in the mirror and know that the other guy can't.

Thanks! And thanks for starting that thread too...it's nice to know (but not surprising) that this website in particular would have members who understand that it's not always about the money... :-)

The same thing goes for the magazines and semi autos. I get really PO'd when I see an add for a gun that says "comes with one magazine". Well, most guns leave the factory with at least 2. I will usually pass on these unless it is something I'm desperate for. And then I severely decrease what I am willing to pay.

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Expect no quarter.

Ditto this and the grips. If a guy is willing to part out a collectable (or even a nice shooter grade) firearm, what else is he willing to do to maximize his financial return? I'd just feel better doing business with other collectors and shooters seriously interested in the guns and their historical integrity, and not the money they represent.


Bullseye

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Five screws and 3-1/2 inches.

Don't get me wrong. I am not agreeing with the practice. In fact I always joke with my local dealer when I find a really nice gun without the original grips. I always accuse him of taking them off to burn in his fireplace when we have a cold front move through. Same thing about boxes and magazines.I know he doesn't do it as I have known him forever, I have seen other shops do it though. What do people do with all those extra mags and boxes, they just loose them??. First thing I ask anymore is does this gun come with anything???

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have not and do not buy "collector guns". I buy shooters of various condition. It's always nice to find an all-original package, but that is more the exception than the rule for most of us.

I love my N frames (who doesn't) and over the past few years have gone out of my way to acquire smooth factory presentation target grips for practically all my N and K frames. Many of the guns I bought had beat up grips or goodyears when they came to me and Lord only knows how many hands they had gone through since they wore their original grips. A few that had numbered or original grips I made sure to hang on to them and keep them with the gun. I would assume most buyers will want the original grips if available if I decide to sell that particular piece.

As far as the presentation grips . . . ., when I sell or trade a revolver, I generally offer the nice grips with it - if the buyer is willing to pay the premium for the upgrade. Anyone who thinks they 'deserve' a nice set of presentation grips at the price just the gun generally sells for is in for a rude awakening. When you have to shell out $75 to $150 for a nice set of grips you're a fool if you sell them for nothing just because they're on the gun. I don't think that's what the OP was talking about and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but especially since the market has softened a bit, the jackals are out looking for something for nothing. Mine are all paid for, they don't eat anything, and if I decide to sell one it's because I want something else, not because I have to sell it. One of these days, I may list a whole bunch of nothing but various N and K frame presentation grips for sale. Depends on how close to retirement I get and the mood I'm in

Having said that, I've sold a couple here that had the original finger grooved 'combat' grips on them and knew I could have parted them out and gotten a few bucks more, since the guns were valued enough that the sale was sure. But I chose not to do that. I don't necessarily condemn someone who does, but I personally choose not to do it. Everyone knows or should know that the vast majority of S&W's (or Colts or whatever) sold 15 years or more ago that were actually bought to use rarely ever stayed with their original grips. Just didn't occur to most folks that it was important . . . .

Uh...yep

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Sure you did

In the early 60's a guy took the hard rubber grips off an old Colt .45 then sold the gun. Later he was looking at the grips and saw the words "Bat Mast'on and other names scratched in the grips and told the new owner of the gun who then discovered it was one of a pair custom ordered by Bat Masterson on stationary from the Long branch Saloon in dodge City in 1886. One of the great Americana finds of all time.
Me. I swap grips around all the time and won't change now. But I'm not a famous Kansas lawman either.
Oh. The Masterson grips were reunited with the Colt.

No worries, I understood your point, and that you were not personally endorsing the practice. :-)

Yeah, yeah, you can do what you want with your guns, but...

We all know that selling guns with the original grips and box and tools removed and sold separately will bring a higher price -- in some cases a much higher price -- than selling the gun and the grips and box and tools together.

Take the Colt factory wood grips off a Python and you can sell them separately for $200 or more. But the Python, with a set of Pachmayrs installed, will not be worth $200 less than it was with the original grips.

And you're not the one venting here...I am! :-)

Neat story...thanks! :-)

I've mentioned in other threads that I really like S&W's finger-grooved combat grips, and have put them on most of my Smith revolvers. There is one interesting exception...

About twelve years ago I bought a 3" Model 625-?. It came standard with Goodyears, and had MIM parts and a frame-mounted firing pin. But...it shoots beautifully, very accurate, and has a terrific trigger. Not long after buying it I knew it would be a keeper, and I started looking for a nice set of grips for it.

At the time the S&W Combats were commanding very high prices, and I couldn't find another set I liked. Realizing that I was going to pay a king's ransom for any nice wood grips, I called Mr. Roy Fishpaw in Lynchburg, Virginia, and discussed having him make a set of grips for me.

We discussed what I had in mind, and he put me on his waiting list. About a year later he wrote to tell me he was ready to make my grips. Instead of shipping the 625 to him, I hand-delivered it, riding my motorcycle down Skyline Drive and the Blue Ridge Parkway on a nice fall day.

Mr. Fishpaw graciously showed me around his shop, let me pick out the wood for my grips, and measured my hand. About seven months later he shipped the 625 back to me...

Needless to say, this is one pair of grips that will never be "harvested" for resale! :-)

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I'm going to go against the grain here! Personally when I buy a gun it's to keep and shoot, I don't sell guns I horde 'em and shoot the bejesus out of 'em. The first thing I do when I buy a gun is put a set of Hogue exotic wood grips on them and I always used to put the original grips away in the box. Then I started to see what grip prices would bring on ebay. So I could keep sitting on the grips and when I die nobody would really know what they were or care, or I can sell the grips on ebay for $100-$200 plus, and put the money towards my next purchase. I don't have any original grips left, and I would probably be thrown out of the SWCA if you folks have seen what I've broken up over the years!

I am not a collector but an amasser and I buy shooter grade revolvers/pistols. I don't harvest grips and if/when I sell them I sell 'em like a bought them.

I can remember on purchase I made several years ago. The seller had a nice pre28 in as NIB conditions with a set grips that very nice. He gave two prices one with the original grips & one with goodyears. I told him both prices were toooo high and I would offer XXX$$. He took my offer and I walked out with the pre 28 and goodyears. I still have the pre 28 and has been shot--proved to be one of the most accurate revolvers I own.

We have an undertone growing in this thread. It attempts to put the onus or unscrupulous label on the seller. Maybe it needs to be on the "good clean buyer" who won't pay full price for the gun and its grips. They feel they can wheel and deal and since they're buying the package, they should get a discount on it.

For whatever reason, they want the seller to pass along that latent profit to them instead of realizing it. The only way to enforce your feelings of ethics is to willingly pay more for a complete package. If you don't or won't, then you're the blame for the split up, not the seller who wants full pop. View it from the other guys side.

In the past I've seen displays where a guy has a nice set of older wood for sale on his table. If the price is right, I'll buy them. He can sell the gun later or maybe its already gone. Usually shooters don't even want the original wood (except to make a full package and enhance their value.)

Just a contrary view of things...

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Dick Burg

Interesting thread. As a gun enthusiast, I think it's a lousy practice, as it diminishes the value and integrity of the gun that is purchased without it's original grips. I think the term ethical and unethical are very much relative terms, and that the meaning of those words vary greatly, depending on the person(s) involved. I may think it's unethical, but the guy selling them/making more money can very well think there is absolutely no ethical issue at play. As others have said, to each their own, and a gun is just someone's property, and they are allowed to do this, if they choose.

Again, I think it's a lousy thing to do, especially with collector guns. I would say that most of the sellers would probably agree that it is done just to make more money, and taking the money out of the equation, they would probably admit it is not the most honorable practice... So, I guess it is a money/values thing. Money generally comes out on top... I do believe that as long as the folks selling the parted-out gun acknowledges that fact, then at least they are practicing sound sales ethics. In the long run, this practice does increase the value of my guns, with the original grips...

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NRA Life Member

In my estimation if a gun has totally non-correct grips (i.e. "Goodyear's", etc.), the gun is devalued by at least the amount it's going to cost me to replace them with period correct ones. If it has correct, but mismatched number, it's somewhat revenue neutral. A Matching number adds some to the value on older guns.

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

So true, yet I as a casual collector(?) would like to have the option of paying somewhat more for a complete package, or taking a discount and accepting no grips or Goodyears. Nothing is uglier that a 3 1/2" M- 27 with an oversized set of cheap rubber grips.

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Always Stay Strong!

I think it is a miserable practice - but I've done it. I can get a lot more separately for an NOS 1970's N Frame, presentation case and smooth targets than someone would be willing to pay for the "package".
In this case the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole.

Jeff

I remember when it was common practice for most people to take the factory wood off and put Pachmayr or other rubber on. The wood often was lost or traded or butchered up or simply tossed in the trash. I have bought used guns with the original, wood, factory grips absent...but not very often. I particularly look for vintage revolvers with the original box and grips. They aren't safe queens but I like the stuff that the gun came with. For whatever reason, that adds value to me...One may do what he or she wants to with their property. If I am going to buy a used gun and the seller wants to dicker for different prices depending on how much of the original parts they will include, well I'll just pass...In general, I don't like the practice...It seems rather cheap to me...

The very people that would throw you off the forum might have bought your discarded grips to make their guns look original again and were glad to get 'em! And those guys have a box of Pachmyrs out in the garage somewhere just like I do.

I couldn't agree more!

Discussing this in terms of whether or not it's "ethical" is absurd. We're not talking about human organs, for cryin' out loud!

Is no one else here a capatalist? Does no one else believe in free enterprise, or the law of supply and demand?

If I could buy a Python (or whatever), and I knew I could sell those original grips seperately, without taking away from the value of the handgun itself, I would do so in a second. And one of you, who absolutely must have all the correct parts for your gun, will give me money for them. For that, I thank you.

How easily one forgets that, in a few short years when you're dead, it won't make one bit of difference.

Doesn't the ethics question work for the buyer as well? The grips came off of a factory gun and now someone is selling them without the gun. If it didn't blow the top strap should we really be buying them? These kind of questions always turn out to be for each of us alone to decide.

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Front sight and squeeze

I think it's assinine......nothing irks me more than people who ask top dollar for an older S&W revolver with Pachmayr grips and the original woods not included.

If you want to play around with changing grips buy a Ruger GP100

It personally doesn't affect me much, since I don't take part in the artificial inflation feeding frenzy of "collectible" S&W revolvers. I'll keep buying holster buffed PD trade in Model 10's and M&P's with Pachmayr grips and putting a set of Altamont magnas on them..........I also refuse to pay $70 for a set of factory Magnas someone parted out.

I don't part out guns for profit, but then again nothing I own is worth a lot anyway.....the overnight crop of "investors" has priced the collectible S&W's out of my range, which is fine with me..... I get the most "return" out of a gun when I use it to send lead downrange.

As long as they're in season, I see no problem.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

I'll apologize up front and say I really don't want to offend anyone.

But it must be the particular mood I'm in this morning . . .


The whole subject and discussion strikes me as the same kind of thing as a bunch sitting around discussing the faux pas of the improper position of one's pinky when drinking from a fine china tea cup

This same conversation can be heard with collectors of anything. I remember these conversations when I owned Mustangs. The collectors of older Mustangs would start talking this is correct, this isn't. It's your____ (insert collectible here), do with it what makes you happy and let the other guy do the same. If you are in it to preserve a little bit of history so be it, but the other guy might be in it for the money.

Me... I will be in it for the money. I now know what to look for to make a buck. Thanks guys, I need to find another way to fund my now growing habit of modern guns.

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SW40VE AF
2000 rounds so far

I don't care what you do with your grips and your gun. How many times do you see grips advertised as "screw not included?"

Keep the screw with the grips!!!!!