So here's the other one I picked up as a package deal with the model 57 I posted about early this afternoon. This one is fairly interesting as it has had these interesting mexican grips on it for the last 30 or so years from what the seller can recall. The grips don't fit real well which lead me to believe that they are actually for a K frame. But the gun has been factory refinished as you can tell from some of the markings. All parts are numbered the same which leads me to believe that the only rework it had was the refinish in July of 1972. I would rate it at 98% as it is near perfect since the refinsh if you can even rate it that high as a factory refinish. Every major part has the same "S" diamond mark on it which I thought was interesting. The barrel is a 5 inch which is appears original and is listed as scarce in the Standard Catalog. Anybody with any ideas how scarce? Anyway, will letter this one to see what else I can found out about it. Enjoy the pics of this one also.

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Here's some added pics of the grips. What do you think, silver and gold? Or just silver and something less precious?

Also more pics of the SN and factory rework markings on the barrel.

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Daniel, the Mexican grips I've seen like those with real gold work have a karat marking along with the silver fineness number (the 925 you see). Minus a number specifying gold, it's probably best to assume the gold-ish coloring is likely copper or something similar.

I appreciate the clarification. I wasn't sure what the relief shapes were made of but figured something other than gold. They'll still do.

The pistol is nice but the grips are outstanding. Larry

That's a very nice example likely shipped around 1929 from the serial number. I agree the grips are probably made for a K frame. You probably know the diamond on the barrel and cylinder near the serial # indicate factory replacements that were serial stamped by the factory to match the gun.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Very nice revolver. You have definitely been on a roll for the last 6-12 months. Keep it up, and keep the pictures coming!

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David Wilson

Hello Daniel
Very Neat grips you have there. I came acorss this Victory model awhile back, that had been engraved and had a set of Mexican Grips some what like yours. It was unfired after it's engraving. I fondly named it "The Mexican Taco Victory Model"... Regards, Hammerdown

Jim, I was curious about that. So are you saying that with those marks those parts, which would be the cylinder and barrel, are not the original parts that were shipped with the gun? I didn't think the factory would replace parts and then mark them with the original serial number. Please clarify for me. Thanks.

Dave, I have been pretty lucky to come across some unique pieces lately. Part of me hopes it continues but part of me hopes it slows down a bit so I can get what I already have in order and organized in my safe. I won't complain either way.

Hammer, I will likely sell the grips as they don't fit my gun. But they were a nice part of the package deal that I got. So which grips would be correct for this? From what Jim says on shipping date I am guessing the service stocks with large medallions are the right fit. I should confirm that shipping date as I had alreayd asked Roy about this one some time ago.

So Roy gave me the shipping date of February 1930.

Daniel,
Yes, parts stamped with the diamond are parts that have been replaced. The S by the diamond on the cylinder indicates a standard i.e. blue refinish. Prior to the S a refinished gun was stamped with a star (ended in the 60's) on the butt next to the serial #. The rectangle with R-S on the grip frame also indicates Refinish-Standard. All the markings are consistent and contemporary to your date stamp of 772.

With your shipping date you're right on the 'cusp' of Service grips with no medallion and those with the 1/2" flat silver medallions. So either would be appropriate. The only way to pin it down would be to hope the letter indicates which it had.

Hope that helps,

P.S. You probably have a diamond and S under the extracter as well.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Ill fitting grips or not....that's still one smoking hot tamale!!

To illustrate the fact that 2nd and 3rd Models were numbered in the same range and produced concurrently, here's my four inch 3rd, S/N 33573 - which is factory original except for the stocks.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

They certainly did it for some I-frames I know about and one of which I own. I have a prewar .22/32 that looks like a kit gun, but it has a serial number that dates it to the early 1920s, some 15 years before the Kit Gun was introduced. The four inch barrel and recessed cylinder on the gun were not available at the time it was shipped, but both bear the same serial number as the frame. The barrel has not been cut. There is no serial number on the underside of the ejector star. When it went back to the factory to be rebarreled with the shorter tube and get a new cylinder, the repair desk numbered the new parts to be consistent with the existing frame. There is a November 1946 work date stamped on the left side of the grip frame. The barrel has the diamond, but the cylinder does not.

I have seen other guns without the transferred serial numbers on replacement parts; I suspect those represent non-factory work by local gunsmiths or skilled owners. I don't know if the factory renumbered all major replacement parts on all repairs/rebuilds, or only some. I also don't know if the renumbering policy was in effect only in specific years.

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David Wilson

We see a lot of Mexican silver here in El Paso. Mexican law says that only sterling silver (92.5% silver) can be stamped 925, so your grips are sterling. The ones I've seen that have inlays of some other metal usually have copper inlays.

You've got some pipeline Daniel, the stuff you find amazes me.

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Sure you did

Nice gun regardless of how the letter turns out. The 5" 2nd model is rarely encountered. As to how scarce, David Carrol had one that was in high condition priced at $4995.00 best I remember. A letter will reveal the original caliber and configuration but with a cylinder and barrel replacement don't be too surprised if it came back as shipped in another caliber. No hard data I can refer to, just a feeling.

Just curious, are all these grips one offs or hand made? I was thinking how long it would take to make something that nice.

Mike,
I've been lucky to find some interesting stuff lately. I think I like interesting more than I like perfect when it comes to guns.

That's a interesting point you make. I can kind of agree with you there. I may have to send off for that letter sooner than I had planned.

Each of the silver grips shown here were constructed (made from parts cut out of sheet stock, formed, then soldered together) and have enough differences and to assure that they were made in different shops.
I have studied quite a bit of Mexican silversmithing and am in awe of the constructions techniques. As for the applied decorations, not really my style.
Steve

There you go. I concur. Perfect is OK, but interesting makes me light up.

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David Wilson

50 target,

That's a valid thought. I'm having fun wondering what the possibilities could have been for another caliber. The serial number is in between the two 44-40 serial range/list in the S&WCA 25th Ann. Journal. There's no ranges given for 45 Colt or 38-40 so there's two possibilities.
I quess 455 and 45ACP are possibles but that number would put it in the 1915 to 1917 period with the old mushroom ejector and it would probably have a lanyard ring or plugged hole (unless of course a commercial ACP), plus if a military 45 ACP the butt would be stamped differently.

Too early a number for a 38/44 HD and they were 3rd model HEs.

45 Colt and 38-40 are the two best possibilities in my limited knowledge. And way back in 1972 maybe someone didn't realize the rarity of those two calibers? That's a stretch.

Any other ideas experts?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,
That's some great data there. I wonder if there was no other parts but 44 S&W parts left to make the proper fixes so that's what it ended up as. With the rarity of those other calibers it is probably safe to say that 38/40 and 45 colt part weren't sitting around to replace on this gun in 1972. Is that a correct conclusion?

I can't tell you if it's correct or not but I would agree it's a reasonable and logical conclusion but we don't know yet that it wasn't originally a 44.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I had a 1917 Smith 45 made into a 1950 Target by the factory in the late 70's. They along with Travis Strahan put together a really nice gun. The factory furnished a new hammer and trigger for the gun (1917 style) and a 1950 Target barrel I don't know if they really knew what they had in inventory sometimes. Bubba must have been in charge of stuff like that and I don't think he really got around to all of the possible hiding places at the plant and just came up with this stuff if they had a need for it.
It certainly could have been an original 44 but as you think back on all the guns that you've seen with replaced major parts; barrel, cylinder, etc. how many have you seen with those two pieces replaced and shown as replaced and since there are no other refinish marks, we might assume they were replaced at the same time. Interesting as to why both would need replacing; neglect, catastrophic failure yet frame survived, bulged barrel and let's go ahead and do the cylinder whil;e we are at it and the list goes on.

Just for grins and giggles, this one deserves a letter.

Interesting thread.

Here's the contents of the letter. I will let them speak for themselves but clarify some previous discussion. We speculated that it was not originally a 44 S&W but it was. The 5 inch barrel is original and the S<> markings were used to ensure that all the parts got matched back up after the factory refinish.

Of course with answers come more questions and the later sentences have served to continue the investigation into the potential importance of this gun.

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Hallaluja, the best possible outcome.

Thanks for the update!

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Jim
S&WCA #819