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  #1  
Old 04-04-2011, 06:38 AM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
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Every now and then I get an interesting case that makes me consider what I would do. Yesterday I got one. I pondered for an hour as to what I would have done and still not sure but it would have taken a split second had it happened to me. Now what would you have done?

Situation: Man (59 yrs old) and three adult family members are driving on a two lane State Highway at 55mph in a 55mph zone. Young man (32) came up behind them in a company truck and got on their bumper, then goes around them giving some obsene hand gestures. He then pulls to the right forcing their car off the roadway before speeding off. They call 911 and then as they round a curve, he has the roadway blocked and standing in the roadway with a tire iron in his hand. He yells things about going to kill the man and the man steps from his car to see what the problem is. The man continues to swing the tire iron in an attempt to hit the man in the head. The man grabs a tire iron and a confrontation begins. For some reason, the aggresor jumps in the company truck and tries to run the man down in the highway. He actually hits the man knocking him into a ditch. The bad guy is located and placed in jail under various felony charges.

So how would you have handled it? I lean toward the man brought a tire iron to a shooting.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:42 AM
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Sounds like the exact reason I travel with a gun. I'm not searching for trouble, but when trouble comes lurking...
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:49 AM
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Easy. I would have stayed in my car. Put the car in reverse, or done a 180 and left.

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Old 04-04-2011, 06:56 AM
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First mistake was getting out of his vehicle. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to guess that the idiot with the tire iron has bad intentions . A safer and more legally defensible action would be to stay in the lightly armored vehicle he is already in and back up as quickly as possible then turn around and exit the area. He has a legal ( and I think moral ) duty to retreat. To paraphrase Alvin York he should " seen my duty and done it " . Fleeing the situation places him in a better position legally if the pursuit continues and he later is forced to use force deadly or otherwise.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:06 AM
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Actually retreat was not an option. Other motorist had pulled in behind the man and the roadway is very narrow. He was pretty much blocked in at the scene. The good part is there is a lot of witnesses. Usually in rural settings, witnesses are not to be found.

I am going to attempt to learn what set the guy off. His company truck was impounded and I guess after I speak with his employers this morning that he likely will be terminated.

As to remaining in the vehicle, not real sure what would have happened but a tire iron can shatter a window and sitting behind a sterring wheel limits movement. I would have gotten out of the vehicle.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:15 AM
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Actually retreat was not an option. Other motorist had pulled in behind the man and the roadway is very narrow. He was pretty much blocked in at the scene.
That's a totally different scenario than the first one.

A 180 might not have been easy. It may have taken some cutting and backing, but I'll bet it could have been done. I'll bet it could have been done before someone with a tire iron could do but so much damage to a moving 2-3000 pound battering ram.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:53 AM
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So how would you have handled it? I lean toward the man brought a tire iron to a shooting.
I can pretty much guarantee the guy in the company van would have had a problem if he did that around here. He'd more than likely have been facing an armed citizen. Would have been a bad deal shooting a guy that was armed with a tire iron, if said guy didn't back off.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:00 AM
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Assuming he really was totally blocked in I would probably still have stayed in the vehicle. If tire iron boy had shattered the window then he would have been forced to make the decision about firing or taking other action. Witnesses would be helpful but he would want them to be saying that he was a totally innocent person who did everything he could to avoid use of force. Getting out of the vehicle might be seen by a dippy prosecutor as escalating the situation and he would lose his position as an innocent victim of someone elses aggression. Having three other adults in his vehicle depending on their abilities might have offered options for controlling the situation. It is easy to second guess this man and it is hard to know what the correct course of action was in the heat of the moment. The problem is that the prosecutor has the leisure to think about all the things he should have done. If he had used deadly force in that situation I can think of two counties in my state where one county attorney that I know well would have called him in and thanked him for what he did and another where he would be arrested and prosecuted.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:39 AM
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Blocking the road for no appearent reason, other persons in my vehicle, threatening with a tire iron. I would have stayed in the vehicle but any attempt to enter my vehicle would have been in the area of bringing a tire iron to a gun fight. The perp in this situation obviously intended to do bodily harm to the driver or anyone else in the vehicle.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:41 AM
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I would stay in the car. Exit the area if possible. If I could not get away, and the BG struck my car. He has showed intent to harm and his butt belongs to me.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:53 AM
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Since I was not on the scene at the time, I cannot say retreat was impossible. The witnesses will be interviewed over the next few days and I will learn more as to the events.

Right now, there are two injured victims that were total strangers to the perp and the perp is being held in jail without bond. The company truck has been impounded.

I still maintain I would have shot him and I would have exited the vehicle to keep his focus on myself rather than my family members. One strike with a tire iron to the head can incapacitate someone and the shattering of a side window can blind one next to it. Either way, the person in the vehicle can be rendered helpless and the attacks on family members could continue.

At this time and until I get more information, I think the man brought a tire iron to a gun fight and think a shooting would be justified.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:53 AM
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Why would you resort to a gun when you are in a 4000 pound metal box propelled by 200 or more horses? If you are legally able to use deadly force with a gun, you are certainly able to use deadly force with a car. Drive away. If that is around him fine. If it bunts him out of the way, fine. If it is over him, well, that was his choice.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:54 AM
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Does the state of Louisiana consider a tire iron a deadly weapon if it is being used as a weapon with intent to harm or kill?

Why did the feller get too close to a fellers truck anyway if he was holding a tire iron menacingly in his hand and after being run off the road from this criminal? Is it plausible that the guy in the truck may have been on hallucinogenic drugs of some kind?
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:10 AM
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Aside from all missing info...

If my vehicle is trapped... I'm getting out immediately, armed and standing between the bad guy and my family... and no matter what he is not getting by me. I'm telling my family to get out and retreat to the vehicles that have pulled up behind us.

Now if Zack was with us (Marine serving in Afghanistan) I'd just pop a beer and watch.

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Old 04-04-2011, 09:47 AM
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Aside from all missing info...

If my vehicle is trapped... I'm getting out immediately, armed and standing between the bad guy and my family... and no matter what he is not getting by me. I'm telling my family to get out and retreat to the vehicles that have pulled up behind us.

Now if Zack was with us (Marine serving in Afghanistan) I'd just pop a beer and watch.
I agree. Even armed I'd feel more vulnerable and less able to protect my family from inside the car. A tire iron is absolutely a deadly weapon.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:47 AM
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nevermind.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:00 AM
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Sounds to me like 7shooter is from a liberal state?. In Arizona you have no duty to retreat. Taking the situation as defined in the posts one has a DUTY to protect one's family if RETREAT is not an option. In Arizona this would be a dead BG if this happened to me.
oldman45 please keep us updated on the investigation and results.

Bill
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:05 AM
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And we have a winner!

Be safe.

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Easy. I would have stayed in my car. Put the car in reverse, or done a 180 and left.

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Old 04-04-2011, 10:06 AM
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ChattanoogaPhil's scenario with Marines on board has definite merit.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:20 AM
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I agree. Even armed I'd feel more vulnerable and less able to protect my family from inside the car. A tire iron is absolutely a deadly weapon.
Right. Staying in the vehicle surrounded by your family is a horribly limiting fighting position. 'Hey honey, would you mind moving a bit to the left so I don't splatter your brains all over the inside of our new car trying to hit the bad guy bashing in your window.' Same with taking a position by the car door and waiting for the bad guy to approach... assuming he'll just walk up to you instead of maneuvering to the other side of the vehicle... then your family is between you and the bad guy.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:22 AM
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Sounds to me like 7shooter is from a liberal state?. In Arizona you have no duty to retreat. Taking the situation as defined in the posts one has a DUTY to protect one's family if RETREAT is not an option. In Arizona this would be a dead BG if this happened to me.
oldman45 please keep us updated on the investigation and results.

Bill
I live in MN where there is a duty to retreat. I also have a FL permit where my understanding is that there is no duty to retreat if an innocent person is somehere where he has a right to be and is basically behaving himself. I would still retreat in FL if I could safely do so because of the unpredictable nature of prosecutorial discretion and because I know the personal costs using deadly force can have on a person. Like my friend that I help teach a carry permit class with ( Viet Nam Special forces vet and retired big city SWAT firearms instructor ) says " You shoot somebody and there is a lot of paperwork ".
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
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Now the things that pop out here is two injured people from the hands of a guy in a company truck, on company time, with company insurance
You've got the holy grail of personal injury practice, liability, injury and most importantly a pocket

PS I like both of 7shooter's posts-very good analysis of the problems that arise with this sort of thing.
The MOST IMPORTANT THING one can do in a situation like this is keep your wits about you.
Wrong. Liability does not cover an intentional act. Vicarious liability does not impune coverage to the employer unless there was prior knowledge of the guy's short temper. The uninsured motorist coverage on the victims car will not cover anything since it was an intentional act and there was coverage on the perp's company vehicle.

If you have knowledge of a way to get coverage for these two newly crippled people, I would appreciate knowing it so I can pass it on to them. Right now, the both are facing surgery.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:37 AM
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You can see here how local media and local policies effect responses from around the country. Last week a guy shot himself in the butt when he stuck his Kimber in his belt. (lucky it was small of back carry) The bullet went thru the butt and lodged in his right calf. Police showed up at hospital in response to shooting report. They inspected gun and gave it back to him. He's home the same night with a sore butt. 3 miles west of here in Illinois he'd be on death row. I'll delete this if it's off topic.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:37 AM
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Okay, I'll bite. Who is the second injured party, how was he/she "crippled," and how is he/she connected to the original incident?

Also, how convenient it was for the agrieved party originally "attacked" to happen to have his tire iron handy.

Suspect there is a whole lot more to this incident...

Be safe.

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If I missed something, please point it out. Thank you.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:39 AM
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I would retreat if possible, but not to the point of further endangerment of me and my family. By that I mean that I wouldn't let myself get caught trying to maneuver through a tight space and allow the miscreant to approach the vehicle. If retreat was impossible, or at least problematic, I absolutely would not stay in the car. Seated in a car, looking up out your window, isn't a very viable defensive position. I would be out of the car, using it to maintain separation between myself and the BG. If he continued approaching despite my weapon and my warnings, I would shoot. Georgia is pretty good about letting one defend himself and his family when threatened like this. Some jurisdictions, of course, are better than others.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:44 AM
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A very similar incident happened in N Atlanta several years ago. A road rager decided to up the ante and blocked a vehicle in heavy traffic. Rager approached the blocked vehicle with a hammer and proceeded to try to smash the windshield of the blocked vehicle.

2 9mm rounds from inside the blocked vehicle (through the windshield) ended the attack and the rager was DRT.

After investigation, no charges were filed against the shooter.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:51 AM
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Also, how convenient it was for the agrieved party originally "attacked" to happen to have his tire iron handy.
My thought there, like the OPoster, is why did he just have a tire iron? In Georgia, at least outside Atlanta, I would suspect that at least 50% of the vehicles you meet have a handgun "handy," so to speak. Here, you could almost count on facing a firearm if you pulled a stunt like that.

You can bet that if I lived in a more "progressive" state that wouldn't allow me to have a firearm, I would have a tire iron, or probably a heavy oak walking cane close at hand.



Here in Georgia, you don't need a GFL to carry a handgun, concealed or in the open, in your vehicle. My daughter regularly carried one in her car even before she got her Georgia Firearms License.

I am convinced that the knowledge that one will probably find himself facing a legally armed citizen if he crosses a certain line of conduct is a major reason that rural crime, and particularly the kind of thing described here, is as unusual as it is where I live.

edit: after reading m1gunner's post, apparently things are the same in Hotlanta. I try to stay away from there as much as possible, but this old country boy is carrying when he whizzes through.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:59 AM
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I havent read all the replys but it reminded me of my folks 30 years ago. They had came from wisconsin to california to visit us. One night I was at work or something and they went to my churchs prayer meeting. Sounds like dad screwed up in traffic although neither dad or mom knew how. Dad was about 70 + years old driveing a pickup and cab over camper. It was a hot night and all had their windows open. This guy pulled alongside dad swearing at him, got ahead of him in traffic. They came to a stop light, the guy gets out and walks back to dad all the time swearing at dad. Mistake. Dad probley looked like a old harmless rube driveing. Dad was 6ft 5"s and tough. Dad didnt even bother to tell me the story the next day. Mom did. She said dad got out grabbed the guy by the shirt front and picked him straight up off the road with his left. He cocked his ham fist back and just said, "Mister, one more word from you and I will break your nose and released him. The guy ran back to his car.
Dad was a very quite man. He never pushed his weight around or tried to intiminate anyone. Never got rough with me, but to my knowledge never backed down either. Dad would be close to a 100 now, died just under 90.

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Old 04-04-2011, 11:03 AM
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retreat because I know the personal costs using deadly force can have on a person.
That is why I would retreat as far as possible without putting my family in danger. In this case, though, there really doesn't seem to be any retreat. Sometimes passengers in the car could get out and run, but if they are young, old, or disabled, that might not be possible.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:04 AM
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"he likely will be terminated"

.....that he wasn't already while conducting his assault, raises considerable question, doesn't it?
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:04 AM
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I'd have to try to leave the area by using my vehicle as a weapon - over, around or through.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:05 AM
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Okay, I'll bite. Who is the second injured party, how was he/she "crippled," and how is he/she connected to the original incident?

Also, how convenient it was for the agrieved party originally "attacked" to happen to have his tire iron handy.

Suspect there is a whole lot more to this incident...

Be safe.

Note:

If I missed something, please point it out. Thank you.
Nope, nothing more. Total strangers. Perp had lead time on victims due to forcing them off the road. Other motorists had previously called in on the guy for reckless drving.

Second victim was BIL of primary victim. Both got out of vehicle when perp was blocking road and standing in road with a tire iron. Actually both victims are big guys (6ft, 200+ lbs). Perp took his truck and either backed over them or otherwise struck them with the front end. The driver was more in the path and got a full blow while his BIL was struck in the leg by the edge of the bumper. One has shattered knee cap, fracture in lower leg and swelling to arms. other has fracture to ankle and lower leg.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:52 AM
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We have no obligation to retreat here in TN either.

First the idiot runs you off the road - Using a deadly instrument, btw.
Then attacks you with a tire iron - Yet another deadly instrument, btw.

The moral of the story should have been:
NEVER bring a tire iron to a gun fight.

OTOH - The BG got arrested and will now get the help he needs.
Hopefully he'll be released soon and become a pillar of his community and all around good guy.

Right
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:53 AM
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I'd have to try to leave the area by using my vehicle as a weapon - over, around or through.
What is the difference between shooting someone or running over them? I suppose repairs to the car may be more expensive than a bullet. Then I can see his atty being rough on someone for hitting his client and it being called negligent injury so both your home owners and vehicle insurance pays limits. Then there is the chance a person can injure an innocent trying to get out of a bad situation with a large vehicle.

The way I see it, shooting them with a tire tool in their hand is better than running over them so they can have the tire iron knocked from their hand or toss it prior to being hit. I want them to fall with the tire iron in hand.
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:49 PM
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even if he werent blocked in, retreat only prolongs the problem since the meat head can just jump in his truck and resume chase.

How about 3 or 4 through the radiator of the company truck, THEN pile into the car for a retreat ... Let the joker burn up an engine and try to explain that to the boss
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  #36  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:49 PM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
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Okay, since I am now a old harmless grouch and probley will never meet anyone here I will tell one on myself that happened almost 40 years ago. I was in the wrong in a lot of this, done some stuff many of you wont aprove of, but will tell it like it happened.
I had a 1964 cadillac coup deville. I just liability on it as it was almost 10 years old and it wasnt my pricipal ride, but was a old jewel.
I had a GF that wanted to go near downtown los angeles. I had been working tons of OT so she was driveing. I really didnt know the downtown area well either.
A car pulled out of a bar`s parking lot and T-boned us in the passenger door where I was sitting. Two hispanics were in the car, and it was a almost new I think, hot ford tornedo. (sp?).
I yelled stop! She stopped but they scratched out. I said catch up with them, I want that plate number! (Insurance purpose`s)
Now that was like turning angie dickason loose in the police woman series! The rest of this story was right out of the script of two dozzen tv movies! They hit a on ramp to a freeway with her right on their tail. They took the next off ramp probley thinking she couldnt hang with them in our heavy cad but she did. Right at the bottom of that off ramp they turned into a parking building that had the arm down and it went flying. Yeah I know we all seen that 20 times! I seen the attendent diveing for cover as we both flew through! They made a wrong turn and she had them boxed up. I couldnt get my smashed door open, but they came back in reverse and smashed our front end. Diane was backing up and they hit us twice again as she was backing up! This thing was now definetly out of hand. All I had wanted was their license number. On top of that, had they just got out and we discuss this thing I probley would have never got the police involved and would have let their insurance handle it in a fashion their drinking wouldnt have been a factor. But now we were beyound all that.
Now that she had backed out they scratched out again. She again took after them despite me hollering for her to stop. At the next turn for the next level they spun out. Diane was really into it now! She said I am going to get those ---"gentilmen". I was bellering for her to stop as she broadsided them!
I yelled for her to get out as my door couldnt open. She got out. As I was slideing out on her side I spotted my s&w model 60 on the floor board that had flew out from where I had hid it under the drivers seat.
I snapped it up and went up to their vehicle. They had locked themselves in and didnt want to come out. In a fit of anger I stupidly hit the drivers window with my gun. Of course the window didnt break. But it locked my gun up. I didnt know it at the time, but a handloaded speer shotshell capsell that I always kept on top bounced forward into the barrel, tying the gun up!
The driver got out and said, Hey man! Why the gwan? Can not we settle this thing without gwans? The irony of that statement really got to me! I shifted the gun to my left and knocked him over the back of my car with my right. Actualy I think it knocked him out for a short time. The other guy now was out and telling me how they would kill me if I didnt have that gwan! Again that got to me and I did what potentialy was the stupidest thing I ever done in my life! "Here, diane, hang onto this, and handed her the gun! I went to work him over. His eyes got big, he kept backing up throwing kicks at me. I heard diane yell, stop!, or I will blow ya away! I looked and saw the driver I had knocked down had got up and stupidly was advanceing on her! She had the gun in both hands on him! Now I had taught this girl to shoot and knew she just might! I stepped back to her and took the gun. I told her to take the car and go hunt up some police. She did. While she was gone I spent what seemed like 20 minuets holding these guys and listening to their insults and death threats telling me how they were going to find me and kill me when this was all over. Also they openly were plotting their story with each other for when the cops showed up.
About then I seen two guys in plain cloths walking towards me like they were going to pass me at a angle. I asked them, you guys security? Yes, said one. (I worked security too, and somehow you just know.) I noticed one had a revolver stuck in his trousers. I said I have my hand on my gun in my pants pocket. I am going to pull it out and give it to you with my forefingers, okay? I then gave them the short version of what happened and said we should be hit with cops soon.
We sure did. This was near downtown LA and I think most of the shift showed up! It looked like a police funneral! The first two showed up. Thank God the first guy that showed probley was one of the biggest, coolist cop I ever met! He did put a shotgun on me and patted me down. They went over and hooked up the two guys but never did me. When things slightly setteled down I asked one of them why. He just said my demeaner. I knew that. The GF showed up in the back of one of the police cars. She told the cops that while she was chaseing them they threw stuff out of their car. Funney, I never seen that!
They took her and I to the downtown station for PW. At one point one of the cops had me pry open my own gun to get the ammo out!
Finaly they took her and me to see the watchmaster. She was a little scared but I had a good idea what was happening. He listened to what the cops said, leaned back and pointed at me and said take him ta jail and throw barney oldfield in with him! The cops just grinned, drove us to the smashed cad and gave me my gun and ammo back!
Lucky for me they had warrents out on the driver, I never did ask for what. Had those cops and politics be like they are today, I would be getting out just about now!
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
I would stay in the car. Exit the area if possible. If I could not get away, and the BG struck my car. He has showed intent to harm and his butt belongs to me.
Pretty much covers it for me!
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  #38  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:31 PM
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Oldman, was this around Shreveport? If I couldn't drive away, I'm getting out of the car. It would be very foolish to sit there and wait for him to walk up to your car and swing a tire iron at where you (or your family) are sitting. When I come out of the car, he's going to see my gun, and I am telling him that I am sorry that he's so POed, but that I have no reservations about putting an end to him, right now. If his belligerence continues, he threatens me, or makes a move toward my family, he dies. Period. Not wounded, not stopped. Dead. I don't intend to be a victim, and I will not be hunted. If I am charged, so be it. I am still healthy, and so is my family. I can live with that.
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:34 PM
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While it is always regrettable to take a life, it was certainly justifiable in this case. I'm sure that the truck driver would not have been mourned for long, being the sort of person to pick a fight with a carload of senior citizens.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:42 PM
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If what i have read about the incident is correct, then none of the victims were armed, so the original question still stands.
What would you do in this situation (if you were unarmed)?

Personally, i would avoid any confrontation at all costs, especially with my family present.
Otherwise, if this man had me cornered and i was unarmed, i would get him as far away from my family as quickly as possible.
But if all he had was a tire iron. I'd like to think that i'd be able to take him down and choke him out. He might get one shot, but i'd take my chances with that vs. him getting close to and harming anyone else.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:18 PM
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Oldman, was this around Shreveport? .


Sort of. It was in rural Harrison County near the State line
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  #42  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:23 PM
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If what i have read about the incident is correct, then none of the victims were armed, so the original question still stands.
What would you do in this situation (if you were unarmed)?

But if all he had was a tire iron. I'd like to think that i'd be able to take him down and choke him out. He might get one shot, but i'd take my chances with that vs. him getting close to and harming anyone else.
Just my 2 cents.
If either side was armed with anything other than tire irons, it was not learned. No firearms were produced.

The good guy driver wanted to try to take the man bare handed. Introducing his BIL apparently changed things for the perp and he used his truck.

Had it been me, I would not have waited for a potential gun. Even big guys (I am 6'2" and weigh 260) can be whipped and I have been a few times. To me, a tire iron can kill someone and I consider that lethal force.
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:55 PM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
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Went back and read the original post again. I sure would like to know what set that guy off! Now, when young guys get into it like that usualy all it takes is eye contact to start the ball. Usualy with a young hood and a senior its rare for things to go that far without at least the old man makeing a drastic traffic mistake.
I had another one when I was about 26 years old. I admit I was already ajagitated before the incident. I had just helped someone move and then had stopped at a GFs house. Dont even remember what it was over but she wanted to start a fight with me. Anyway I was in my truck and had my dog, rusty with me. A 56 chev with 4 kids in it were haveing a good time with me. They repeatedly raced up to my rear end like they was going right over me, and then back off. They did this about 4 times all laughing their butts off. Again, it was a hot day and we all had our windows down. Finaly they got alongside me to turn left at a light. The light was red. I looked over and let my mouth over ride my butt. Said something like, "do that again and I will tear your head off and-------!
The driver hollered over ya! Come on man, I can take ya! He wasnt raised like I was. I lost it. I got out of the truck, left the door open and grabbed the near pasenger that was hollering, Hey I didnt say anything! I was trying to pull him out the window. This was right downtown van nuys! The light had now changed and horns were honking! The driver took off leaveing me with a handfull of cloth. I dont know if he was scared or trying to kill my dog rusty. Rusty had got out of the truck and now was trying to get out of the way of the car bearing down on him! It really looked like the driver tried to run rusty over! They kept going, passengers flipped me off, horns were honking as I had part of the intersection blocked another light change or two while I was able to catch my paniced dog rusty!
Another one: I had just got word my mother died in wisconsin. I called and got a flight. I then ran downtown to get a haircut for the funneral. I was at a large intersection on the way to the barber, I was to make a left and a young man was going to cross the street. I wrongfully made a wide turn around him. It was no where near him, technicly, I was wrong. He yelled out the vilest thing about me and my mother! His timeing was bad! I stopped the truck right there and got out and ran him down! I got close and seen he was younger than I thought as he had a wispy mustach. He yelled I aint 18 yet! I grabbed him by the mustach and pulled it and told him I didnt think he was going to make 18. I plucked his mustach two or three times trying to restrain myself, and he let me do it!
Usualy we are all young when those things happen. We arent always right either. It`s easy to brag what you would do until it happens to you. It`s more like what you wish you would do!
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:22 PM
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Didn't realize so many folks kept their tire iron in the front seat.

In NY some keep a Louisville slugger behind the front seat, you never know when a pickup baseball game might start.
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  #45  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:50 PM
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sounds to me like he was very lucky to go to jail!
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  #46  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:08 PM
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If there was no weapon in the car I would think trying to evade the situation would be wise, if that was not possible take the fight away from the family. I always travel with a pistol in the truck and if I did get out to confront the jerk I would certainly have it HOT. In Texas you have a right to defend yourself if in a life threatening position and it seems like today there are more and more hotheads out there and roadrage is rampant. Case in point, right here in Abilene last month two guys in their 20s got into a argument over roadrage, both guys got out with guns, one is dead. So far, no charges have been filed either way. I am 61 years old and if someone comes at me with a tire iron I ain't gonna take no butt whipping!
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:46 PM
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I am 61 years old and if someone comes at me with a tire iron I ain't gonna take no butt whipping!
Joe, I am a little older than you and I am not going to take a chance on getting a whipping. One case I worked back in 1967 had a man just hitting a guy up beside the temple with his fist. The man died and the assailant went to prison for manslaughter.

I am too old to take chances. If people leave me alone, I will leave them alone. I read recently that it took 37 muscles to frown and only 22 to smile but only three muscles to pull a trigger. At my age, I am tired of smiling and too old to be getting whippings.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:22 PM
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I would stay in the car. Exit the area if possible. If I could not get away, and the BG struck my car. He has showed intent to harm and his butt belongs to me.


Concur. A vehicle is fairly good protection and a pretty good weapon if necessary. It's not a bad idea to always try to leave some maneuver room for yourself. If you stay back enough from the vehicle in front of you (or whatever) you have a fair chance of being able to extricate yourself.

The guy is a real poster child for CCW...
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  #49  
Old 04-04-2011, 08:36 PM
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Easy. I would have stayed in my car. Put the car in reverse, or done a 180 and left.

.

this and for 10 character limit. this.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:43 PM
2krkrider 2krkrider is offline
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This was about 45 years ago in the NC mountains. We were on vacation, family camping in a VW Bug. My brother and I were in the back seat. Mom, 6 months pregnant was in front seat and Dad was driving. Just before dark we stopped to fill up and when we got back on the road it was just getting dark. A Caddy pulled up behind us and put the brights on us. After a few miles they passed us. In the car were four men. Mom says they were at the gas station when we fillled up. They sped off into the distance. A few miles later, as we rounded a curve, there was the Caddy, sideway blocking the road. The four were lined up, each holding a bat or some such. Hill on one side, air on the other with no room a little bug to get by. Daddy stopped, set the brakes, grabbed his P-38 and got out. Walking to the front of the car, he bent down, put the P-38 in the headlight, put a mag in and racked a round into the breech. He stood up, looked at the guys and told them they were going to move their car. One guy stepped forward, and suggested where Daddy could put his P-38. Daddy flew 32 missions in a B-17 over Europe and was on the Air Base pistol team. This was no big deal to him, just four stupid punks. With casual aim, Daddy put a round against the pavement about 2 feet in front of the guy, a spark flew off the pavement as it went between his legs and bounced into the side of the Caddy. With careful aim he drew a bead on the guy and told him the next one was going between his eyes. There was a mad scramble to get in the Caddy and head on down the road. Daddy watched them drive off, got back in the car and we headed down the road. Mom was worried that they would be waiting. Daddy said not a problem, the rest of the mag was more than enough to stop them with several rounds left over. He still doesn't like to waste ammo.

Last edited by 2krkrider; 04-04-2011 at 08:47 PM.
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