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07-01-2011, 04:09 PM
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Other than a gun?
In my CHL class, the instructor mentioned and recommended carrying something along with a firearm for self defense. He liked tactical pens and I've seen books that recommend a knife. What do you guys carry if anything?
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07-01-2011, 04:18 PM
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Pepper spray if I have a jacket...I'm a firm believer in having something a little less lethal for the escalation of violence scale, just like an LEO has on his belt. And I always have an assist knife on me.
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07-01-2011, 05:16 PM
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A knife is an essential item for daily carry but should be used for defense only as a last resort, especially if you are carrying a firearm.
Intermediate force is a very tricky proposition. Pepper spray does not always work, as I once found out the hard way. As a citizen, you will be expected to do your best to avoid a situation. If the situation happens to find you and it escalates to lethal force, then use of a firearm will be justified. And you (or your lawyer) will need to be able to articulate why it was justified.
Dave Sinko
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07-01-2011, 05:34 PM
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This was recommended in a recent book I read on snubby revolvers.
https://www.kabar.com/product/produc...uctNumber=1480
Recommended to wear it weak side in case your gun arm was grabbed in a struggle.
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07-01-2011, 06:30 PM
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I carry a full sized lock back knife on my belt on the opposite side. I also carry pepper spray in the opposite side front pocket, a standard pocketknife and a sturdy all metal ink pen like a Zebra or Cross. Since I have a bum ankle I also carry a cane as needed.
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07-01-2011, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russp1
This was recommended in a recent book I read on snubby revolvers.
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What's the name of the book?
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07-01-2011, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russp1
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Looks cool...but what is the advantage of the angled blade? I know it must be shaped like that for a reason but they don't say why in the press release....
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07-01-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz
Looks cool...but what is the advantage of the angled blade? I know it must be shaped like that for a reason but they don't say why in the press release.... ![Confused](https://smith-wessonforum.com/images/smilies/confused.gif)
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You grip it like a pistol with the tip of the blade acting as the muzzle. The idea is to use it to stab an attacker trying to disarm you; that's why it's worn on the side opposite the gun.
As for me, I usually have a pocket knife clipped to my left pocket. As a last resort I can use it in a disarm attempt. It's usually used to open packages.
I don't see a need for "tactical" pens; just carry a sturdy pen, like a Zebra (which, btw, is probably less than 1/10th the cost of a "tactical" pen). It writes nicely, too.
I also have a bright flashlight handy. In darker surroundings the light can momentarily stun an attacker, giving me the chance to run away. I can also use it for strikes, but again that's a last resort situation.
I've looked into pepper sprays, but haven't decided on what would suit me best. I'd prefer something that had a trainer version available, and one that's not likely to blow back in my face. I'm rather partial to the pepper foams I've seen.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned are first aid kits. I keep a small one in my pocket that has band-aids, gauze pads, gloves, and Cellox. I have a larger, more comprehensive kit in my car and an intermediate level kit in my backpack.
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07-01-2011, 09:36 PM
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Push dagger, appendix weak side plus pepper spray. Check your local laws first.
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07-01-2011, 11:06 PM
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07-01-2011, 11:46 PM
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I usually carry a 3 1/4" knife, but that's mainly as a utility. I've also been thinking about some kind of spray. These days I make a pretty inviting target with the bum hip and knee, but I think the Bubba Stik helps make up for that ![Wink](https://smith-wessonforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
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07-02-2011, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz
...And I always have an assist knife on me.
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Does "assist knife"=assisted-opening knife here, or something else?
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07-02-2011, 01:02 AM
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I have more edged weapons than I ever let my wife see. I almost always carry some sort of folder that I can open quickly with one hand, and I picked up one of those TDI's a year or so ago. Very slick, very concealable. I don't carry spray (used to) but after seeing buddies get it blown back in their face on windy days, I prefer not to take the chance. When I'm travelling the neighborhood I carry a stick, and it looks like I'm using it to walk with. I also have a walking staff for the woods when I'm hiking that has a 32" katana blade in it, just to keep me safe from ninja's. Got one of those slick little ti-lite knives as well, but that one doesnt travel with me much. My preferred folder is of Benchmade origin and assisted opening so it's darn quick. Great steel too, takes a heck of an edge. The blade is half serrated for rope/line cutting. I also make sure I have a quality small flashlight with me. Not only is the light great for disorienting someone, it fits my fist well as a substitute roll of quarters in case things get real close. And, dont forget to study some sort of martial art (don't care where it's from, boxing, karate, ju-jitsu, kung fu, or just plain old street fighting), so you can have confidence if things get physical. My .02.....oh, and I forgot about my little Cold Steel Culloden that sits in my lower back most of the time. Light, thin, and you can carry it all day without even noticing. To plagiarize another forum member, "cogito, ergo armatum sum"
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07-02-2011, 02:20 AM
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Watch the movie 'Hitman'. Dual swords in back scabbards. Really cool. How you sit down, I have no idea. But it would probably freak out anyone you encountered. Of course if you need that then you're handgun is useless, so at that point I would feel pretty much screwed.
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07-02-2011, 06:04 AM
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I always take some common sense along with me. Never considered taking a knife to a gun fight. Those of us that have used pepper spray will attest to the fact it will have nearly the effect on the sprayer as the sprayee.
Of course, books on Conflict Resolution would be good to read before going out with knives, spray, tazers, tire tool, tow chains, brass knuckles and a body guard.
People cannot predict what they will encounter each day. Carrying a gun is more than what most will ever need. Just as with my car, every time I have a breakdown, I never have the exact tool I need even though I have almost every tool Craftsman makes. Common sense goes a lot farther than weapons.
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07-02-2011, 12:59 PM
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I've been retired for 8 years. I always carry a pistol/revolver when out of the house. I also carry OC......
I want to be able to tell the Grand Jury that I really didn't want to Kill Anybody and that why I carry OC to try to stop violence upon myself or other innocents if possible.
I once took a life in the line of duty during a Robbery.
Even though I was plain clothes, a member of the Grand Jury said that they were impressed that I carried OC as an alternative to deadly force, ie. I just didn't carry a gun and soley rely on that.
Rule 303
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07-02-2011, 03:06 PM
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Well, I thought I was satisfactorily armed until I read these posts!!
A person should probably give a lot of thought to the potential risks (violent crime) that he/she is exposed to within his/her own environment (where you walk, where you drive, locations you visit, etc.). Also give a lot of thought to your OWN CAPABILITY to handle other types of weapons/defense tools.
My guess is that 10 different people would come-up with 10 different answers to these questions. And each answer might well be correct for that person in his/her circumstances.
In my own situation, I have concluded that ONE firearm that I am experienced in handling is the answer. If this were to fail (e.g., an attacker "got to me" first), I rather doubt that a backup weapon would do much good for me (considering what I can do and what I cannot do).
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07-02-2011, 04:02 PM
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Not to fuel paranoia, but we all have spare tires (I hope) in our vehicles. Firing pins and extractors break and ammo factories have their share of rounds that weren't put together exactly as the drawings specify.
This suggests that a "Plan B" is a really good idea since, if you need any of this stuff in the first place, your day isn't going well anyway and you're already on the wrong end of the probability stats.
I've made it a practice to have a knife available to either hand since getting entangled in a rope and not being able to reach my knife with my free hand. Fortunately, the critter that got us both in a fix was a fairly placid one and we managed to solve the issue, but it could have been ugly.
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07-02-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azalea
My guess is that 10 different people would come-up with 10 different answers to these questions. And each answer might well be correct for that person in his/her circumstances.
In my own situation, I have concluded that ONE firearm that I am experienced in handling is the answer. If this were to fail (e.g., an attacker "got to me" first), I rather doubt that a backup weapon would do much good for me (considering what I can do and what I cannot do).
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You are correct.
What most people do not understand is that in self defense, seconds count. The time you spend using spray may be the seconds someone needed to get the upper hand on on you. I have seen trained officers get the snot beat out of them by someone they used spray on. I have also seen officers get more spray than they were giving. If you want to get killed, do so by angering someone with something other than spray.
A knife is virtually worthless unless you intend to kill someone with it. I was trained that at 20 feet, a knife IS a deadly weapon. If it comes to pulling a knife as opposed to a gun, I will pull a gun. If someone kills a knifeweilding opponent, a jury will see it as self defense. I do not want to anger someone by pulling a knife when a gun would do much better.
Are there better choices than using a gun? I guess so but I would say leave those choices to someone who may be opposed to using a gun or does not feel they could use a gun. My daughter carries some agency issued spray to and from work with her at clinics and hospitals. At home, she has one of my Model 66 with a four inch barrel. If she is walking her dog, she has gun in the pocket of her scrubs.
It may come down to if a gun is always possible for someone. In court houses, schools and such where guns are not permitted, then something else may be fine. Yet when I am faced with a SD situation, I want a GUN.
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07-02-2011, 05:22 PM
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@oldman45
THANKS SO MUCH for the "like". Much appreciated !!
There was a time when I thought about carrying other defensive gear. But through experiences shared with me by others, I concluded that, in my world, a single highly reliable firearm was best and anything else was unnecessary confusion/weight.
There was a YouTube video shared by a security professional on a 1911-specific forum in relation to the "reaction time" question. It was a horrific video to watch -- six to eight policeman in Guatemala, each armed with both semi-auto handguns and AR rifles, were attempted to surround and arrest one (just one) "bad guy" individual who was wielding a knife. At the end of the video, four of the police officers were dead or dying. It only took seconds for the "bad guy" to do this.
As much as I was pained by watching this video, I realized by studying the officers' "mistakes" that in most criminal assault situations, the defending law-abiding citizen - or officer - likely has only 1-3 seconds to react. I've chosen my carry weapons (just one at at time!) and holster with this in mind. These specific carry 1911s are ultra-high end 1911s ... and they won't fail if ever called upon.
Last edited by azalea; 07-02-2011 at 05:30 PM.
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07-02-2011, 05:50 PM
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Another thing to keep in mind is that, particularly for non-LE, an attack is most likely going to be an ambush-type of situation at contact or near-contact range. You may not be able to draw your gun right away if it's warranted, so it's good to have a "Plan pre-A", if you will, to create distance between yourself and your attacker so you can draw your gun. Simple empty-hand skills can help in this type of situation, or some of the tools mentioned in other posts, like a flashlight or pepper spray. Of course, the important thing is to practice these skills together so that you can use them when needed.
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07-02-2011, 06:22 PM
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We all need to understand that WE are an underdog going into a SD situation.
The perp knows in advance how far he/she will go to reach the intended goal. Is that shoot to kill, pul a gun to scare, just giving up or what ever choice is available.
We, OTOH, do not know how far they are willing to take it and if we step across the line between defensive force and excessive force, then we have to answer for our actions. If we under act, then we may lose our life or be seriously injured. If we use the wrong action, such as using a knife instead of a gun, we still lose.
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07-02-2011, 07:11 PM
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Well stated...and am wholly in agreement.
I carry a handgun...only. When it gets to the point I consider carrying OC spray, and a knife, and a flashlight, and, God forbid, a "tactical pen," I will simply stay home.
For the record, I have carried a handgun in all 50 states...off duty. Was also on official duty in 46 of them. Never more than a handgun whilst in mufti.
Be safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45
I always take some common sense along with me. Never considered taking a knife to a gun fight. Those of us that have used pepper spray will attest to the fact it will have nearly the effect on the sprayer as the sprayee.
Of course, books on Conflict Resolution would be good to read before going out with knives, spray, tazers, tire tool, tow chains, brass knuckles and a body guard.
People cannot predict what they will encounter each day. Carrying a gun is more than what most will ever need. Just as with my car, every time I have a breakdown, I never have the exact tool I need even though I have almost every tool Craftsman makes. Common sense goes a lot farther than weapons.
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07-02-2011, 09:53 PM
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Check out what LEO carry. Firearm for sure, rifle/shotgun backup in the car, a stick of some sort, a knife for multiple purposes, spray, a flash light, and most carry tazers as well. I'm no longer enforcing the law and dealing with the BG's every day like they do, God bless them, but in a bad situation its a good idea to have a plan B, C, D, and E.
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07-02-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10
Check out what LEO carry. Firearm for sure, rifle/shotgun backup in the car, a stick of some sort, a knife for multiple purposes, spray, a flash light, and most carry tazers as well. I'm no longer enforcing the law and dealing with the BG's every day like they do, God bless them, but in a bad situation its a good idea to have a plan B, C, D, and E.
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I think it makes really good sense for each person to evaluate their own risk situations and environments. I do not think a wise/judicious decision can be made as to what to carry until someone has made such an evaluation.
For some environments, such as what many police officers face, multiple "tools" are needed ... police officers receive calls to respond to a wide range of situations. On the "positive" side, police officers often (but surely not always) have a general idea of what they'll likely find when they respond to a call. Just to choose an example, it may be that the officer needs an AR rifle .... not a handgun.
In my personal situation, I've concluded that the risks I face would be of a virtually instantaneous nature -- where I have only one chance (if even that) to respond. Thus, for me, "one gun" is the "right" answer. The likelihood, in my risk environment of having a chance to apply a Plan B is, in my estimation, close to zero ... and close enough to zero so as not to merit carrying other hardware.
But if fully agree that this may not be the "right" answer for a different person in a different risk environment. Evaluate your risks first, then equip yourself for those risks is the way I look at this ... and it is something we should all devote serious thought to.
Good discussion ... and I've really appreciated everyone's input.
Last edited by azalea; 07-02-2011 at 10:27 PM.
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07-02-2011, 10:44 PM
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I have my wife and a cs9 as a back up. If a nasty pissed off wife can't take care of business, I would resort to the 9mm.
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07-03-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10
Check out what LEO carry. Firearm for sure, rifle/shotgun backup in the car, a stick of some sort, a knife for multiple purposes, spray, a flash light, and most carry tazers as well. I'm no longer enforcing the law and dealing with the BG's every day like they do, God bless them, but in a bad situation its a good idea to have a plan B, C, D, and E.
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What was not said here is the citizen is not LEO. The LEO does not carry all the required or desired equipment on their person. The citizen will not face what the LEO will. A citizen goes away from danger while LEO go into danger.
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07-03-2011, 11:10 AM
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I have my keys on a Kubaton. Always in my hand when I'm walking to my car...
Very effective, non lethal option.
I would not want to be on the recieving end of a set a keys to the face, a blunt strike to the face, ribs, etc...
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07-03-2011, 01:54 PM
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Be VERY careful of the laws where you live, and where you travel to and through.
The Ohio Concealed Handgun License is just that. It covers NOTHING but handguns. And in Ohio, there is NO preemption of laws governing sprays, clubs, knives, etc. You could be legal where you are; but cross the street into another jurisdiction and become a criminal.
I carry enough junk as it is. Where I'm allowed to, carrying a handgun is about as much extra as I can manage, and when carrying my 36 in a pocket holster, it requires me moving my cell phone to another pocket already full of stuff.
I'm not the type to go places or do things that I would expect to lead to violence. If I find myself in a violent situation, it's going to be at the instigation of somebody else. If it can't be dealt with by: - avoidance
- joint lock/throw
- spear hand to the eyes
It's probably going to end in shooting.
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07-04-2011, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666
Be VERY careful of the laws where you live, and where you travel to and through.
The Ohio Concealed Handgun License is just that. It covers NOTHING but handguns. And in Ohio, there is NO preemption of laws governing sprays, clubs, knives, etc. You could be legal where you are; but cross the street into another jurisdiction and become a criminal.
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This is good advice and very accurate.
Many states do not allow concealed carry of items other than a firearm.
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07-04-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photoman44
What's the name of the book?
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The Snubby Revolver by Ed Lovette.
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07-04-2011, 11:51 AM
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IMHO you can get carried away w/this kind of thing. As a retired LEO I carry my .38 plus normal stuff to include a cell phone. More than that becomes a burden, but that's just me.
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07-05-2011, 10:04 AM
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If I'm out and about I often carry a heavy ash cane. I do practice short staff fighting, though probably not as often as I should. The cane even gets through TSA without a hitch.
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07-05-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walnutred
If I'm out and about I often carry a heavy ash cane. I do practice short staff fighting, though probably not as often as I should. The cane even gets through TSA without a hitch.
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Does a cane go through without a close exam?
A friend collect canes and he has two of interest. One shoots a .410 shell and the other has a long knife inside.
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07-05-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45
Does a cane go through without a close exam?
A friend collect canes and he has two of interest. One shoots a .410 shell and the other has a long knife inside.
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The cane goes through x-ray about half the time.
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07-05-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
I always take some common sense along with me.
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This is the best defense tool anyone can have, and all to often it is overlooked. I also carry a medium sized pocket knife, in back pocket. This is more of a tool than a weapon. I often have pepper spray handy and a 40 year old Buchimer (Sp.) 'black jack". Thank goodness I only had to really use it twice in all the years I carried it; nasty piece of equipment.
__________________
Always Stay Strong!
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07-05-2011, 12:40 PM
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I guess one could hire a bodyguard. If something happened to him/her then use your Dirty Harry gun as a backup. What about a dummy grenade? Pull the pin, throw it at him and run.
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07-05-2011, 01:56 PM
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For every day carry I don't leave the house without one of three knives, Kershaw Blur, Cold Steel TiLite or a Kershaw Leek, the Leek is usually carried in dress clothing or when I'm out jogging because it's smaller and lighter.
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07-06-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thndrchiken
For every day carry I don't leave the house without one of three knives, Kershaw Blur, Cold Steel TiLite or a Kershaw Leek, the Leek is usually carried in dress clothing or when I'm out jogging because it's smaller and lighter.
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Given the choice, I'd take a Leek.....
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