I am very happy for police officers to be armed in any way they think necessary for the beat they are on.

Are the EBR's in most patrol cars Full Auto/burst or just AR-15 type semi-auto's?

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Hand-me-down M16's here, but the guys in the black jump suits carry MP-5's.

(In addition to many other goodies!)

We have some M 16's handed down from .mil.....most of our EBR's are AR's or Mini 14's.....
SRT has the M 16's and UMP's in 45 ACP...

Even here in New Jersey it is legal and easy for civilians to get semi-auto EBR's

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Our department has both. About two thirds carry semi auto, and a third have full auto . . . our department has about 40 deputies.

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I hope they don't have bayonet lugs.

I would hate the idea of overarming our civil servants

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What does the acronym "EBR" represent?

Yes, the thread suggests it's patrol rifle related but have never seen such an acronym.

Thanks, in advance.

Be safe.

Evil Black Rifles......

That would be "Evil Black Rifle," AKA 'Assault Rifle'...! Sounds too scary for me to own! It's amazing, with the millions of these rifles out there, you'd think we would all be dead by now...

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I assumed from context it meant Emergency Backup Rifle.

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I just hope the full auto guns don't have flash supressors.

That much fire power, in addition to the bayonet lugs and folding stocks, might be too much even for a well trained officer to handle.

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My agency issues full auto M16A1 rifles to qualified deputies. We also authorize private purchase M4-type carbines in semi only. EVERYONE must attend a mandatory training class.

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The Agency I work for also has taken advantage of Fed Surplus to acquire rifles.They are vintage M-16s and will be converted to semi-auto, with the exception of two or three examples.

The local S.O. issues regular semi-auto AR-15's. Don't know about the other local depts.
I have to buy my own. I sold my AR last year and got a SIG 556 Classic. I like it much better than the AR.

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One neighboring jurisdiction has full auto patrol rifles. They are vintage M-16 surplus lowers with new manufacture uppers with 10" barrels. While the short barrel is handy, I have to wonder about full auto. Military applications of full auto generally involve breaking up an ambush or preventing your position from being overrun, so when you really need full auto, you need lots of it. This department's policy on the use of full auto is in the process of being written so they are not actually using it yet. But I am eager to see under what circumstances full auto is allowed or even encouraged during patrol use.

Dave Sinko

We also have surplus M16s available. Some carry them and some just regular ARs. Full auto fire is included in parts of our rifle qual course, for those using the 16s.

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The requirement of select fire for patrol use is an agency decision, but I can't find any reason to issue select fire weapons to my patrol division. The one issue that a rifle round has settled for our agency is a good example of the use of a rifle....shot was at 60 yards, the suspect was advancing on a deputy with a stolen Sigma 40 caliber handgun....the rifle shot shattered his shooting forearm and entered his heart....
The patrol rifle has a VERY valid need on the road.....not sure select fire is a requirement....

Not an EBR. I do know of several rural agencies here in the West that still have Model 28 Thompsons in their arsenals. The standing orders are, except for Russian invasion, they are not to be touched.
In case of Russian invasion, you must file a triplicate form to be signed by the Sheriff and two County Commissioners.

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The local Police Department and County Sheriff got M-16's after the LA shootout. I scrounged up a batch of auto blocks that fit between the pistol grip and lower receiver and block movement of the selector to the full auto position. I offered to install them on all the rifles at no charge and was turned down. I don't want anyone to feel I am disparaging the officers,or law enforcement in general, but I knew most of them in both departments at that time and most really didn't have any business with full auto. Mostly from a training standpoint, though there were a couple that probably shouldn't have been allowed issue sidearms let alone true assault rifles. Takes a lot of practice to be really proficient with full auto fire and a lot of small departments don't have the training budget to provide this. It has yet to be demonstrated there is any need for full auto fire in any incidents here. I see an ever increasing militarization of law enforcement here and in general, particularly among the younger officers.

I've got a select-fire MP5/10mm. The issued M-4s are semi-auto only.

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I thought the exact same thing!
Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We were issued (if we qualified) a semi-auto M4 in addition to the 11-87 everyone carried.

Full rock and roll bushmaster up front...M14 and an 870-8 shooter in the trunk...lots of ammo....here in rural Texas you never know what you're gonna roll up on and Mr. Murphy has taught me that backup is almost always at least 20 miles away
On a slightly different note, when I was K-9 I added an Igloo electric cooler to the trunk. Kept cool water for the dog and handler, as well as nibbles for both of us. Currently makes thirty hour plus stints on manhunts, train derailments, and such much more tolerable. Learned the hard way to wire it in so that it only runs when the engine is running....it'll drain the best battery in short order. I understand somebody makes a shutoff device now but I haven't tried to chase one down.

Some do, some don't....

I've carried and quaified with both semi and select fire weapons while working on warrant/entry teams.

For the rural route, I much prefer the 16" AR-10 semi-auto with a good reflex sight system.

But, that's just me.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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All of our Deputies carry select fire M-4 with EO techs

You can tell by looking at them - AR-15 rifles don't have the "auto" safety position.

Attached Images

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Thanks for the "EBR" explanation, fellas.

SWAT personnel in my former agency did carry full-auto capable weapons. AR-15 "patrol rifles" were single shot only.

Like many, I see very limited need for full-auto in patrol vehicles...except, perhaps, in circumstances as our Texas poster ol' geeser noted.

Be safe.

There are two uses for full auto fire: repelling a human wave assault and saturating an area with suppressive fire. Neither is a likely police scenario and the latter has massive legal issues attached.

Interesting thoughts on the potential uses for full auto, in police applications. I would agree, based on what we have traditionally seen in this country, not very necessary. But, I'm sure that was the case prior to the Norcal, and LA bank robberies, and FL FBI shooting. After those events, ARs/patrol rifles were suddenly acknowledged as necessary...

Have you guys seen the news reports on the London riots? Seen the trajectory of the Dow lately? How about all those jobs that have been created? Sad to say, but we may be seeing some things happening in our society that we have not seen before. Might even have some new needs for police firepower... I hope I'm wrong!

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With all due respect, 30/30 leverguns could have stopped the North Hollywood bank robbery as well as any self loading AR/M16 rifle on the planet....
I am all about patrol rifles, but I am not convinced that the ONLY acceptable platform is the AR/M14/M16/M4 platform....
Back in the day I carried my 30-30....and feel perfectly protected with it even now...

I would not feel comfortable at all launching a 30-30 round in a school or mall active shooter scenario. The 5.56 mm is much cheaper to train with and does not have the penetration excesses of the 30 caliber rounds. In our enlightened hire them even if they are borderline qualified time, the 5.56 mm recoil is better tolerated than shotgun or larger 30 caliber guns.

We run our folks through a 800 round yearly refresher and quarterly training and quals. That would cost a lot more if we ran 30-30 or 7.62s. I doubt even the big boys would make it through 800 rounds of 30-30 in four days.

In all the law enforcement oriented training with the exception of firing from a helicopter, full auto is usually confined to CQB scenarios where two, two or three shot bursts are fired at across the room distance. Anything farther out is engaged with semi.

You have been watching too many hollywood movies if you think a trained officer will dump multiple magazines willy nilly across the neighborhood. Admittedly there have been incidents with multiple officers firing too many rounds with high capacity handguns but that is an issue of poor training and the exception rather than the norm. Even basic academy firearms training stresses accountability for each round fired.

I believe you read things into my post I didn't say....
I didn't suggest that the 30-30 was better, or more cost effective than a 5.56 platform...nor did I suggest it was cheaper to train with......
I suggested, no, outright said, that a 30-30 lever rifle would have ended the North Hollywood shootout.....and I maintain that it would have....
While your agency may have enough money to run patrol officers or deputies through 800 rifle rounds, I suggest to you that is an exception, not the rule....
I also suggest, from a great deal (certainly not all of course) of the in car gun fight footage that we see on a regular basis that many peace officers are shooting to slide lock, with no increase in the number of hits scored....but maybe I am wrong....

I would, and did, choose a Remington 870 as my ride-along. Altogether practical in an urban environment and useful in any environment.

Be safe.

My last EBR that I was issued by my Agency was a M16A2 manufactored by FN. Excellent rifle, reliable and extremely accurate.

Rule 303

From some reports we've seen a .40 S&W G**** is too much...

My apologies if you took offense at my post. I've seen other posts where the lever gun was proposed as the ideal patrol long gun. That was not your point and I agree that the North Hollywood officers would have given their eye teeth for any center fire rifle that hit where it was aimed.

We opted to train our officers thoroughly with all weapons issued. Spending a few hundred hundred dollars on ammunition per officer per year is cheap insurance to minimize costly and tragic events that result from lack of, or improper training. Loss of an officer's or innocent citizen's life is hard to explain if caused by budget cuts.. Yes the municipality or county saved a few thousand dollars but was it worth it?

My personal feeling is that full auto is unnecessary for general patrol use. I served on and led swat teams for seventeen years and was armed with a variety of firearms over the years. I never felt under gunned with a semi and rarely used the auto position even when I had one on the gun. We took our training seriously and I was lucky enough to have an administration and governing body that understood the importance of training.

I also agree that many agencies feel that training to the minimum standard is all they need. If those agencies are handing out M16s without adequate training they are doing their officers and communities a disservice.