I did a local trade recently and the other guy did a little informal paper that we each signed and got a copy to keep. Is this kind of thing even a shred legal? Like if gun were to be used in a crime and they came back to me and all I have is a slip of paper stating that I traded said serial number off dated suchity such would that keep me from behind bars??? Not that I for a minute am sweating the trade, I just mean what does it take to really be legal and keep the law from getting all up in your business???

With so many lawyers involved in every aspect of lives today I can’t answer that for certain. I can tell you that every F.T.F. sale or purchase I’ve done I’ve done a bill of sale, one copy to buyer and one copy for my records. . There are several online resources for assorted generic bills of sale. It may not be perfect but it’s better than having to explain to some L/E, yea I did own that gun but I sold it to some guy in the parking lot of my local Wal-Mart six months ago

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Always Stay Strong!

I get a photocopy of the buyers DL, he gets a BOS.

"No tickie no shirtie"

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Sure you did

I agree with Ladder13! He goes one step further than me- I copy down the information from the purchaser's DL and put that at the top of the BOS also listing the date, Make/Model/Serial# of the firearm.

As for what is legal, I cannot say how your state may differ but in mine, where there is no local firearm registration like NY and NJ, we go by Federal law and there is no paperwork of any kind required for a private party firearms sale. The only reason I insist on the record I mentioned is for covering my own behind!

And I cover my behind because of this scenario: if a firearm is found at a crime scene- if necessary the authorities go to the manufacturer and, based upon the serial number, the manufacturer tells them which distributer/wholesaler they sold it to. Then the authorities ask the distributer what FFL dealer they sold it to and when asked the dealer tells the authorities which individual consumer they sold it to.

Presuming I was the individual who purchased the firearm new, that would then bring the authorites to my door at which time I would produce the BOS and suggest they speak with that individual who purchased the firearm from me. Should the authorities then go speak with that individual and they inform the autorities that they sold it and kept no records (because no records are required to be kept for a private party sale in much of the US) then the authorites may need to follow other leads to try and determine who used the firearm to commit the crime.

If you like, you may always go to a Gunshop or FFL dealer and have them log the firearm into their boundbook from you and log it out to the new purchaser. In my experience, that only costs $25 to $35 to do but I still prefer to do it the way Ladder13 mentioned.

Actually, in a perfect world, I prefer to never sell any of my firearms!!

~Harvester

Bob,

In Florida you do not even need a bill of sale. Of course it is a good thing to have, the main thing IMHO is to get the persons DL number indicating that he is a Florida resident. I have not sold many guns privately but on my bill of sale said: I (name) a Fl resident sell to (name) a Fl resident a xyz gun serial number 12345 for $xxx. So and so(buyer) states he is a Fl resident and is not prohibited by law to purchase a firearm.

Sign, dated etc.

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Still Running Against the Wind

It is perfectly legal to sell a gun to someone in the parking lot of a local Wal-Mart, at least in GA. I have bought/sold/traded in parking lots at Verizon, Hooters, Kroger, Northern Tools, Tractor Supply, my home, various truck stops, etc.

I offer to let a prospective seller see my DL and Georgia Weapons License. I will sign a simple BOS if someone wants me to. I absolutely would not volunteer or agree to anyone taking down my information from the DL or GWL.

I do most of my f/f deals with people from this forum and one other. Most are well known on the forum. I really believe that a non ffl seller might be opening himself to charges that he is "in the business" by requiring a whole lot more than the law requires.

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Georgia On My Mind

Me neither. I'd flash my DL if you just had to see it. But no copies. I also avoid any for sale items where the seller asks to see a permit. Sorry, you don't need a permit to buy in FL. Demanding one before a sale makes you a anti-gun hack IMO, and I'd rather not do business with you.

Others who ask for ID,....gun stores, pawn shops, auction houses, FFL's, etc ......... jus' sayin'

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Sure you did

They are required by law. They have no choice in the matter. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have to fill out all that mess most would happily take your cash and hand you a gun.

I do what the law requires. I don't mind showing my DL and GWL. But I draw the line at a private seller recording that information.

The law in Georgia requires me to have a reasonable belief that the person I'm selling to is eligible to own/buy a firearm. Generally, the people I do business with have a good bit of positive feedback on the Georgia forum I frequent. I recently bought a Model 60 from a Georgia State Revenue Agent. I asked him if he needed to see my GWL. "Nah," he said. "You look honest to me." Without a doubt, he had checked my feedback on the forum he advertised the gun on. My Granddaddy would be appalled if he knew I was dealing with the "revenoors." That deal took place at a peach packing shed. Lots of sketchy characters in those places.

I have bought firearms from dealers (pawn shop, gun store, etc.) maybe a few times a year for the last ten years or so. I have no problem providing the documentation to them, because I know the law requires it. I don't buy/sell through the auction houses, so that isn't a factor.

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Georgia On My Mind

Agreed, gentlemen... where private party sales are not prohibited, it is totally within your purview to conduct such a transaction with no record or exchange of IDs. That is your prerogative and I do not believe anyone was questioning that decision- I certainly was not. I was simply sharing my perspective on how I would handle such a transaction with someone unknown to me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging the legality of such a transaction in your locality and acting accordingly- based upon those boundaries and your comfort level.

Personally, I choose to ascribe to the philosophy: "Hope for sun but prepare for rain."

~Harvester

I buy all the cheap guns I can find, drive over to the "questionable" part of town, mark them up 500% and sell them out of my trunk. All the folks who buy them must be residents as they are there on the corner.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I agree, way too many people having identity theft issues to go around volunteering information.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

If we're doing a face to face sale, I give you the money, you give me the gun. I say thanks, you say thanks. Same as if I was buying a toaster.

You ask for my drivers license, CHP, SS number, library card, even my name, you get to keep the gun, I keep my money. I don't need what you're selling that bad. The choice is yours.

I will not ask for or even look at, any of the above if I'm selling.

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John 3:16 .

I offer a discount for someone with LE, CHL or Security ID. That way I have a better chance of them not being a criminal. I only ask to see ID so I know someone is a resident of my state.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

If you are selling or trading a gun, you are going backwards.

There is never a good reason to ever let one go.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Just don't be "an anti-gun hack"

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Sure you did

I wouldn't go quite that far. I would say, maybe just a little paranoid, and probably not cognizant of state law.

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Georgia On My Mind

Home of Windshield pricing, no Haggle here!

All High Points $495.00 cash only.

Ask about our

Taurus with Gold trim !

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Still Running Against the Wind

If I were to sell one, it's going through a dealer- I'm not going sell one even to family without so doing. I'm extra paranoid.

Buying however, is a different matter.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Nice, AG... Again, whatever your perspective... it is good to have a plan!

Lot’s to think about here. I’m not big on handing out copies of my ID to people. I see the desire to stay above board and legal, but I also don’t see the rationale in giving a copy of personal information out to someone. I like the idea of a generic bill of sale type paper and just have them scrawl a signature on it. I don’t think that is too invasive but I would think it is better than nothing. I guess if I ever ran into someone who didn’t want to do that I would want to question if they are even legal to buy a gun. I had a guy out and out tell me he was behind on child support so he couldn’t buy a gun in the store. I kind of went wide eye’ed that he would even tell me that. I had to suck in pride and tell him to pack sand in the most polite way I could. For all I know he could have been some ATF dog sniffing around for a promotion. Or he could just be some dead beat dad who is really that dumb. But either way, I dropped that and have been thinking about it ever since.

I CYB by only accepting cash. Checks are getting too risky. Other than that I follow State and Federal law by asking to see a drivers license to verify age and state of residence. I give a receipt if they ask but can't remember the last time I was asked.

Though I probably should start wiping all firearms I sell down to erase my finger prints and wear gloves while selling them. A firearm is much more likely to be traced back to me through finger prints than a serial number search.

Come to think about it maybe I'll start wearing gloves when I'm shopping for firearms. After all if I handle a firearm and decide not to buy it my fingerprints could be on it. If the person that does purchase or steal the firearms commits a crime with it my fingerprints will likely still be on it. Since I was in the Army and fingerprinted I assume my prints would come up on a database search, they always do on CSI anyway. So now the police have my fingerprints on a firearm used in a crime and if I looked at the firearm more than a few weeks ago I probably don’t even remember looking at.

Dang, y’all are making me paranoid.

took a buddy to the range to shoot and he fell in love with it...wanted to get into the hobby right after that.....found the gun he wanted bad at a local shop. In Minnesota, you need a permit to purchase or a ccl to buy handguns at shops. Folks have told me there are no restrictions on f2f sales. Picked up the gun for my buddy and was set to hand it over. Thought better of it and checked the rules on line. What I found on line states that if you are selling to a person who holds the above permits, you are good to go...no further action is required. But, if the person cannot show you the permit or does not have it, you are still allowed to make the deal as long as the seller feels the buyer is allowed to own a handgun. Then the seller must send a letter to the law inforcement department of the buyers residence with info on the seller(name/address/dl#)....plus the info on the handgun sold. The point of all that is then the police/sheriff can run the check on the seller just as if the seller were appling for a permit to puchase. My buddy decided it would be better and easier to just apply....get the permit...then make the hand off. Again...this is what I found on line when I searched Minn. handgun transfer rules/face to face. If someone from here knows this to be incorrect...I won't argue with ya....was just trying to protect myself....

Sounds like a strawman purchase. And then you're talking about LE having to get involved in the process. I'd stay out of that situation.

I cannot comment on the way MN addresses private party sales but I can tell you I agree with hatt on this one.

The transaction baldysky detailed of purchasing a firearm for someone who is not eliglible to purchase it themselves is illegal by Federal Law let alone any local or State restictions.

The only avenue of which I am aware that is legal when it comes to purchasing a firearm for someone else is as a gift... but there again they must be capable of legally filling out the forms and passing the CHR check.

We or at least I, have a special problem here in Florida in that many non-residents are here especially in season. (Right now we seem to have a lot of Texas plates, come over to see the rain I suspect.)

So when I buy from a private party I ask to see his DL to make certain that he is a resident.
Usually he will offer a BoS which I always keep for my records since it shows time and price.

It seems to me that the Law requires me to make a reasonable effort to assure myself that I am buying from a FL resident, but that is all it requires. In FL there is a sort of fuzzy area with Residency anyway, I know a guy who says he is a FL resident but NY says he lives there and must pay state taxes. When some guy wants to sell me a 99% Triple Lock Target, I am supposed to know whether he spent 6 mons + 1 day in FL not NY?

I also suspect that the chain of ownership for most of the guns of interest to me have long ago been broken. Most 30-40 year old guns have gone through a lot of FTF transfers before they hit me.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep

Buffalo Springfield - 'For What Its Worth' - YouTube

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Sure you did

You can have dual residence. If a person owns a residence in Florida and also in another State he can buy a firearm in the State of Florida.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I still have the album (vinyl) Restrospective

Another Ex Hippie with Guns

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Still Running Against the Wind