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Old 09-26-2011, 11:56 PM
Finn McCool Finn McCool is offline
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Default Expanding cases

I have reloaded about 100 rounds of 44 special so far. With every batch, I always get some bulged cases that won't chamber. I'm pretty sure this is happeneing during the expanding stage. When I expand cases, I go by feel and try to do as little as possible. I'm looking for suggestions on how to be more consistent with my case expanding. Thanks in advance. I have gotten a lot of good advice here lately.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:04 AM
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When you say "expanding" are you referring to rezing and depriming or Flaring the case mouth?

If it is flaring, you should have the die set so that it just flares enough to barely start the bullet.

Rounds that do not chamber can often be due to improper crimping.

What dies are you using and what bullets, which will help figure out what is going on.

Edit, might have to wait till tomorrow, I need my beauty rest.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:16 AM
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FM Recheck you settings on your expander die and your bullet seat/crimp die. You should not have to guess at the expander die if set correctly it will bell the case correctly at full up stroke and on the seating die it should set the bullet depth and crimp fully at the top of the stroke.
You may be crimping a little before the bullet is set to depth causing the bulge. Recheck both setting and I think you will find your problem.

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:37 AM
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A real expander die, as your manual will tell you, is designed to return the case ID over the length that the bullet will be seated to 0.001-0.002" smaller than the bullet diameter.
On top of that, most expanders will also flare/bell the case mouth.
You can keep the flare/belling to a minimum, but if you aren't expanding the case ID over the length that the bullet is seated, the bullet will have to do the expanding. If it is a lead bullet it may swage the bullet smaller and you will end up with a bullet that leads the barrel and has no accuracy. For both lead and jacketed bullets, the force of seating the bullet will cause the case, where the case wall is the thinnest, to bulge out as the bullet is seated crooked.
One thing all reloaders should do is get a micrometer to measure case wall thickness and a 6" caliper to measure case dimensions and actually measure and record what has been done to the case and bullet and ensure that everything is correct.
You are either shooting a 0.429" jacketed bullets or a 0.430-0.431" lead/plated bullet. Measure the bullet OD.
Take a case. Measure the case wall thickness, case OD, and case ID and find the thickest and thinnest areas and marks them on the case exterior. You should also measure the unsized case length.
Now, resize the case. Remeasure everything. Your case ID should be somewhere around 0.424" or smaller. That much sizing down is so even the mose thin-walled case will be sized down enough. Don't worry about over working your brass. These are not bottleneck cases that you have spent maybe an hour or so in case prep and don't want to lose any.
Now, Raise the shell holder, screw the expander die in to the press and screw it all the way down so it touches the chell holder. If you have an expander made for your cartridge, this will over flare the case. If you are using a different expander (say a short .44 special expander for your .44 Mag), then you can raise the expanding die up that difference in case length. Now, turn the die up 2 full turns--do not tighten.
PS: do all die tightening with a case in the die applying pressure so the die stays in alignment while you lock it in position.
Raise the ram and cycle the case into the expander. You should feel the case walls rubbing against the expander. If you suddenly need more force to lift the ram, you have hit the flare/belling part of the expander. IF this happens, and it shouldn't at this point, lower the ram and turn the expander plut up 1/2 turn or turn the die body up 1/2 turn.
This should give you expansion over the length that the bullet will be seated. At this point, turn the die or the expander stem down in very small increments until you can place the bullet on the case and the bullet has no contact with the case mouth and the bullet sits on the case without wobbling. You may need to apply just a little pressure to get bullet to stay.
At this point, with the case in the die, lock the die body and expander stem (if there is one) down.
Now, measure your case again. It is important that you measure the case ID deep enough to not measure the flare/bell at the case mouth.
If you have jacketed bullets and the case ID is less than 0.427", you MAY get the occasional case bulge. I have contacted the die manufacturer before and gotten a custom expander large enough for my lead bullets.
Now, when you seat the bullet, you can also verify if there is a case bulge where the case walls are thinnest.
You can also do what a lot of reloaders seem to do. Eliminate the expander, only flare/bell the case mouth and then use a Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp the case and bullet and to swage the case down so it will chamber.





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Old 09-27-2011, 12:38 AM
Finn McCool Finn McCool is offline
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I have a RCBS three carbide die set. I am currently reloading 185 grain LSWC-HP. I am entirely self taught at this point(or smith and wesson forum taught). The instructions in all my manuals and the die instructions don't say much about adjusting the case expanding die. I might need a bit of instruction on how to better set that up. I'm not talking about the resizing and depriming step. Thanks for taking the time. The folks on this forum have been awesome.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:29 AM
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Umm, I tried to write how to adjust the expander die.
Here is what Chuck Hawks says:
Adjusting the expander die
First, run the shell holder to the top of its stroke, then screw the expander die into the press until it touches the shell holder and tighten the large lock ring. Lower the shell holder, place a resized case in the shell holder, and run it fully into the expander die. Check the mouth of the case. It should be expanded and belled just enough to accept a new bullet. Excessive belling of the mouth shortens case life. If the case needs more or less expansion, loosen the lock nut at the top of the die and screw the tapered expander plug up or down until the correct amount of belling at the mouth of the case is achieved, then re-tighten the lock nut.

You can review the following thread:
Understanding Expander Dies for 9mm and 38 Special - Reloaders Guide

Per Hornady:
ADJUSTING THE EXPANDER DIE
(Three-die sets only)
The expander assembly is designed to put a slight “bell” or flare on the case mouth. For uniform flaring, trim all case to their proper length.
To adjust the expander die body, raise the press ram to its full height with a case in the shell holder. Thread the expander die into the press until the expander touches the case mouth. Raise the handle and screw down the die in small increments (each time inspecting the mouth) until the mouth of the case has been flared just enough to seat a bullet. Tighten the die body lock ring and set screw. Keep in mind that an excessive flare can eventually shorten case life, and may keep the case from properly entering the seating die.

Here are the RCBS instructions:
http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf

Lyman covers their powder-through expander die and their M-die:
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/d...structions.pdf
PTE die:
Lyman Powder Charge/Expanding Die System
Instructions for Multi-Expand/Powder Charge Die and Premium Carbide Four-Die Set The Lyman Multi-Expand Powder Charge System uses special hollow expander plugs which simultaneously expand case mouths and allow powder charges to be dropped from your attached powder measure. This die system condenses two separate loading tasks into one simple step. Premium 4-Die Sets include a Multi-Expand Powder Charge Die for the neck expander in your choice of caliber only. If you need other plugs for other calibers, contact Lyman Customer Service at 1-800-22-LYMAN for information (see Customer Service section of this brochure).
The Multi-Expand Powder Charge Die Set includes the die body and seven different caliberized expanding powder drop plugs for 32, 9mm, 38/357, 10mm/40, 41, 44 and 45 Auto cartridges, and one universal (non-expanding) powder drop tube for charging rifle cases from 222 to 45 calibers. It also comes with two drop stems for long and short cases. It is the perfect accessory for most standard powder measurers. Your Multi-Expand Powder Charge Die expands and flares case mouths to facilitate bullet seating. Cast bullet reloaders should use this die to prevent “shaving” of bullet metal during the seating opera- tion. Your Expanding Die plugs are clearly marked on the outside flat diameter as to each size caliber.
The illustration on the next page shows a cutaway view of the Multi- Expand Powder Charge Die with a cartridge case in position. The die is identified by a stamping on the major outside diameter that reads “MULT EXP PDR CHG”. The expanding die plug is identified on the outside diameter with the cartridge size designation. Select the appro- priate expanding plug for your cartridge cases. Thread the expanding plug tightly to the stem. Make sure the set screw is backed out so that the drop tube passes freely. Insert the drop stem and expanding plug assembly into the bottom of the die body. The expanding plug will be on the bottom. Tighten the set screw in the die body to secure the drop stem.
Using the Multi-Expand Powder Charge Die: Thread the entire die into your press or press turret. Raise and lower the press handle while turning down the die a little at a time until the case mouth is flared sufficiently so that your bullet easily enters the flared mouth without shaving lead or jacket material. Tighten the lock nut. Thread your powder measure into the top of the die until secure. You may want to readjust the die at this time to facilitate ease of dumping powder from your measure. You are now ready to expand the case and charge the powder. It is important to raise the case until it is at the extreme upstroke of the press. Then release the gunpowder from the powder measure.
The top of the die body is threaded 7/8" x 14 to accept Lyman’s #55 Powder Measure or Accumeasure. Other measures using a 7/8" x 14 thread will also work.
M-die:
Neck-Expanding
(Three-Die Sets, Neck-Expanding “M” Die—See other side for Multi-Expand/Powder Charge Die; Used in Four-Die Sets) The Lyman Neck-Expanding “M” die expands and flares case mouths to facilitate bullet seating. It is included in all three-die sets and may be purchased separately for most cartridges. Cast bullet reloaders should use this die to prevent “shaving” of bullet metal during the seating operation.
Figure 2 shows cutaway views of Neck-Expand dies with cartridge cases in position. This die is identified by the “NECK EXPAND” stamped between the knurled top and threaded shank of the die body. Note the two-step expanding plug in the die. The first step of this plug expands the neck to slightly under bullet diameter while the second step expands the first 1/16" of the neck to slightly over bullet diame- ter. This allows cast bullets to enter the case without shaving lead. Adjusting the Neck-Expanding “M” Die: Remove the expanding plug stem from the die body. Loosen the set screw and die lock ring and back off the die lock ring for sufficient room to screw the die body into the press. Lower the press handle until the shellholder is at its highest point, then screw the die into the press until the die’s bottom edge made light contact with the shellholder. The die body is now adjusted. Turn down the lock ring and tighten its set screw.
Your expanding plug must now be adjusted to the proper depth. Start the expanding plug stem into the die body. Place an empty, sized car- tridge case in the shellholder and lower the press handle until the shellholder is again at its highest point. Turn in the expander plug stem until you feel the expander plug contact the case mouth. This means the first (and narrower) stage of the plug is entering the case mouth.
Lift and lower the press handle slightly while continuing to adjust the expanding plug stem until it flares the case mouth. The case mouth should be flared enough to allow your bullet to easily enter the mouth without shaving lead or jacket material. With the Neck-Expanding Die adjusted, secure the expander plug lock nut.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:35 AM
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Plus one for the Lee Factory Crimp Die, some good advise here on how to prep the case for bullet seat and crimp. I set my seating die just to seat the bullet with no crimp and then use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp the case. I have found I can more precisely apply the crimp I want this way. I put an index mark on the top of the adjustment stem and use that as a reference as to how much crimp to apply and note that on the ammo data info, that way I can repete or modify as needed the amount of crimp on that particular load/bullet.
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