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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 10-11-2011, 09:30 PM
iskra iskra is offline
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Here are my two “New Century” triple locks. They are both in 44 special and have matching numbers respectively. As can be seen one is a target model. It’s in the 10xx SN range. The HE model is in the 13,7xx range. The latter is in very nice condition for its age. Sadly, the target model is compromised by a significant number of scratches around the circumference of the cylinder. The configuration of the scratches is difficult to understand as being honest wear or even accidental. They almost appear some kind of deliberate abuse.
I bought both guns (separately) a long time ago and got into them right at the time. The target model I bought as a flawed gun. (Ironically, at the time it would probably have been out of my price range were it in the same condition as the HE). While I can be a great critic of results, I know little about appraising the candidacy of a firearm for quality refinishing. I do conjecture that the scratches may be too deep to be polish out. The photos, the best I have now available, don’t show the scratches but they certainly are there. However, I would appreciate any guidance concerning the possibility/desirability of having the target model refinished. Such particularly to include any recommendations who I might take/send it to for an evaluation. I have also considered the possibility of having a later model 44 HE cylinder (preferably a heat treated one) substituted for the original. This would be dependent on finding a suitable one and then still perhaps having the entire gun refinished. Part of my considerations is getting an idea of the actual rarity of the target model New Century. Opinions/comments/critiques are welcomed with thanks.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:45 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Don't refinish it. Leave it be.

As to fitting another cylinder, why? It will shoot mild handloads all day long just as it is. I have a Triple Lock that shoots fine.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:52 PM
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Default Dude...

those things are so beautiful like that, after a century, don't refinish.

Last edited by beagleye; 10-11-2011 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:02 PM
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removed PC

Last edited by Speedo2; 11-27-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:09 PM
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You continue to get my attention with specimens from your collection. Like Gil, I would not refinish that gun. Refinishing is a process by which you expend potentially large sums to achieve a significant reduction in value.

You may know that about 15,000 Triple Lock revolvers were produced in the .44 HE series and about 5000 more in the .455 HE series. There are next to no .455 target models, but my impression is that a greater percentage of early .44 hand ejectors were configured with adjustable sights than the comparable guns in .38 and .32 calibers built on smaller frames. I estimate 10-20% of TLs are fitted out as target revolvers. This is only an impression, and I would by happy to be corrected by others who have studied the question.

I have two TL targets in .44 Special, both refinished decades ago. One of them was a factory refinish in the 1920s, and I consider it the next best thing to a factory original TL. The other was a non-factory refinish, but a sensitively done one with only one small deviation from factory policy on part coloring policy. I shoot cowboy action loads in these with no fear. It is great fun, and they are wonderful conversation starters at the range.

Your fixed-sight TL is a very nice specimen, but it has 1920s non-medallion stocks on it instead of the gold medallion service stocks that I would expect to see on a gun shipped in 1917 (which is when other TLs with nearby serial numbers were going out the door). The stocks on your target revolver look correct to me for its probable shipping date (1908-1910).
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:43 PM
j38 j38 is offline
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Like David, I'm enjoying your posts & pictures very much. You have fine taste in S&Ws!

Jerry
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:42 PM
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Nice guns.

On the Target, spend big bucks and have a refinished gun?
I suggest selling that one, adding money to the realized funds, and buy a gun you will like better with no fretting.

My advice, I'm told, is like my heart- cold and direct.
When they are 'just guns' with no significant personal history, treat them like other personal property and make the best financial decision for YOU.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:33 AM
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"When they are 'just guns' with no significant personal history, treat them like other personal property and make the best financial decision for YOU"

Here is some very sage advice and some I could/should heed.

I sometimes think I become too personally involved with my revolvers.

Letting one go to bring one in of better quality is a good idea.

Thank you Lee for your outlook.

Allen Frame
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:56 AM
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This dilema has been discussed here a gazillion times. Collectors will invariably tell you to leave it alone and shooters will say go for it. As Lee stated it is really your gun and only you can make that decision.

Bottom line, you only get one life and if refinishing makes you happy then go for it. Value wise it will lower the price.

Personally, I would leave it alone but I am more of a collector than a shooter. The greatest joy that I get from my guns is showing them to others and discussing them.

As far as refinishers, Ford's gets good reviews and David Chicoine and his son do real quality work if you decide to go that route.

Either way, very nice revolvers. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:44 AM
rhmc24 rhmc24 is offline
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Turnbulls has my seventh (maybe 8th) job right now. If you are serious about wanting to get the scratches fixed, talk to Turnbulls about just having the cylinder refinished. If they agree that it is practical to expect an exact match with the original gun, it could actually improve value. I have had disappoinments by other big-name restorers.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:11 AM
Bell Charter Oak Holsters Bell Charter Oak Holsters is offline
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Nice guns and I'd leave them alone. I don't believe either of them are so poor condition to justify a refinish for the purpose of preservation. I had one done by Ford's a few years ago. In that case, the TL had been horribly parkerized when I acquired it, was pitted here and there and the rifling was just about gone in the original barrel, so I saw no harm in a restoration. A forum pal sold me a nearly new barrel and I had the original barrel refinished as well to remain as part of the original all matching package. They did an excellent job. So I guess what I'm saying is that for myself at least, I don't undertake any permanent alteration from original condition unless it's a shipwreck when I find it. The revolver was sold to finance the purchase of another better condition specimen and yielded well over $1,000.00 above my total investment, so I can't agree entirely with the notion that a quality restoration is alway's a foolish excercise. And yes, the purchaser was fully informed that it had been refinished by Ford's.


Best Wishes!

Lefty

Last edited by Bell Charter Oak Holsters; 10-12-2011 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Memphis Memphis is offline
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On the target gun above, is it just me or should the front sight be of a different contour? That one to me doesn't look like the other early ones I've seen but looks to be more of a 1930's shape. But then again I could count on my fingers the number of Triple Lock Targets I've seen.
And my vote would be a strong nope on a refinish. I'd leave that baby the way she is.

Roger
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:28 PM
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Okay, I hate to horn in or hijack this thread but I have a almost identical situation and gun. This one is #4591. It was sent to the american tradeing co. New york, New york in Oct 06, 1910. As a fixed sight. It was returned to the factory sept 1949 and again, july 1950. I dont know if it was refinished or not. Roy`s letter just says "the work was done then". It has S&W target sights that are more modern than the period. I have owned the gun since the 70s. Once I took it out along with another 4 or 5 .44s, amoung them a 29-2 and a 1950 target as new. It outshot them all and probley is my most accurate handgun. It`s sat in the safe since that day. What would you guys do with it, whats your input, and any wild estimates to it`s worth? By the way, I am the one that sold lefty that barrel. Rest of my .44 specials.




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Old 10-13-2011, 07:22 AM
Bell Charter Oak Holsters Bell Charter Oak Holsters is offline
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In my opinion, it is what it is. It letters as factory modified, which although for most serious collectors is a minus, at the least provides provenance for the modern non original sights. From the photo, it does look refinished to me. I wouldn't do anything with it, except shoot it since you say it's an excellent shooter. Value estimates are tough to arrive at on a revolver like yours. I don't imagine it would approach the value of an otherwise original target model in similar condition, but at the same time it would likely achieve a fair sum, relative to the factory alterations. You could of course, have period correct sights installed by someone like Dave Chicoine, if you can find some. But considering the historical letter noting the return for repair, that wouldn't make much sense. I think it's a nice TL, although an oddball for sure.

Cheers;
Lefty

Last edited by Bell Charter Oak Holsters; 10-13-2011 at 07:25 AM.
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