Hope this isn't too long winded to read! Any replies appreciated.

Going to be picking up an M&P 9mm soon and am finding that the S&W web site leaves quite a bit to be desired. The spec sheets seem to be inconsistent from gun to gun. One spec sheet will give trigger pull and reset information with no reference at all to grips; while another will mention what grips come with the gun and have no mention of either trigger pull or reset.

I am wanting: An M&P 9 as a home defense gun. I want to have NO thumb safety, NO mag safety, and NO internal lock. I think I have narrowed it down to these models but have a few questions that I'm sure those on this forum can answer. BTW. I have tried calling S&W but the person on the other line didn't seem to sure of his answers...

A comparison of the 3 choices below.

Smith & Wesson - Compare Products

Concerning the M&P pro. It is a thought, but I want to make sure that it has no mag safety, or internal lock. I also hear that an Apex or Burwell trigger job along with your personal choice of sights on a standard M&P can be a better option. Does this gun have the same finishing as the others? It looks different on the web site. Slide looks lighter.

Concerning the range and carry kit: No mag safety and no internal lock? This is listed as a capacity of 17 while all of the others are listed as 17+1. Does this mean the range and carry kit comes with 16 rd mags as opposed to all of the others coming with 17 rd? I can't see the rhyme and reason there. Trigger pull on this gun? 6.5 lbs? Same as the 'No mag safety' version?

Concerning the 'No mag safety' M&P: This gun says that it has no mag safety and no thumb safety. I can only assume no internal lock as well? Is this the exact same gun that comes in the range and carry kit?

Action is not listed for all of these: They are all striker fire DAO, correct?

Grip is not listed for all of these: They all come with the 3 interchangeable back-straps, correct?

Frame size is not listed for all of these: They are all the 'large' frame, correct?

Frame and barrel material is not listed for all of these: They are all polymer/stainless, correct?

I can't believe how poor the S&W web site is in terms of consistency. They certainly aren't selling on feature/benefit presentation.

Thank you

No doubt it can call for just more questions looking at the listings. There are two frame sizes for the 9/40 M&P, full size and compact. All have the three grip inserts and 17rd mags in 9mm except for restricted states that come with the 10rd mags. All are the poly/stainless, what I call "safe action", not really DAO but the same trigger pull on each shot. The internal lock doesn't really bother me, I just leave the keys in the box and ignore it. There are two "Pro" models a 4.25" with the night sights and the 5" with the fiber optic front. They both come no mag safety or IL. I would lean more to the night sight version for home defense myself, the Pro is suppose to have a better trigger than the standard model, I would be leary of changing the trigger in a defense gun myself. Another option would be a LE overrun gun, these usually have the night sights and come with 3 mags, no MS, no IL. They pop up every now and then, right now all the M&P models seem to be in short supply so you may need to do some searching.

You may want to try these guys out.
Code 4: Law Enforcement Sales and Service
They will sell to individuals and purchases can be made with a CC or with a check or MO, with appropriate clearing time. They will ship to your FFL of choice.

I purchased a M&P 40c from them. No lock, no external safety, no mag safety, 3 magazines and Trijicon Night sights. Bud's didn't have the unit configured with the Trijicons and 3 mags.

Their prices were about the same as Bud's which is kind of my bell weather. I recently purchased a S&W M&P 9 Pro from Bud's.

You'll have to email or call them and see what they have in stock or on the way. IIRC they had the 40c on order and it took about three weeks because I used a personal check.

They know the products well and tell you what has what in terms of operational features and product code.

You are going to have to decide what barrel length sights and caliber you want.

If it were me for PD/HD and not much carry I would probably do the 4.25 inch Pro with night sights and add a Crimson Trace laser grip. If PD/HD and carry, the compact version with night sights and get an XGrip and a couple full sized magazines.

Here is a 40c which is the same frame size as the 9c. 3.5 inch barrel with night sights.

Next to it is the XGrip which allows the use of full size, higer capacity magazines, the size of the larger frame.


Added flexibility. Short for concealed carry and higher capacity extendo magazine for HD.


Here it is with the full size magazine and XGrip (and a Viridian laser).

It's not that I don't like the 4inch, I have one, but not the S&W, I have its cousin the Walther P99AS.

Here is my lineup then in tupperware:
M&P 40c 3.5 inch barrel with night sights and a Storm Lake Barrel allowing conversion to 9mm (with the 9mm magazines).
M&P 9Pro 5 inch.
Walther P99AS .40 4 inch.

Decisions, decisions.

DAdams,I checked out that website.I think that's where i'm going to get my M&P 9mm.My LGS only charges $25 transfer fee.Do they charge shipping? If so how much?

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How many guns are too many?

Now why would you buy from there when you can go to Express Police Supply, click on the M&P 9c with night sights and three mags for $455 including free shipping??? You can enter your CC number and get a confirmation in about 2 seconds.

Standard sight M&P's are $398, free shipping. These are first responder prices, and the requirements are pretty easy to meet to be a first responder.

I wasn't advocating Code 4 I just said that's where I got mine.

"when you can go to Express Police Supply, click on the M&P 9c with night sights and three mags for $455 including free shipping??? You can enter your CC number and get a confirmation in about 2 seconds."

You will have to compare prices and models available. It looks like there is also a $50 rebate for Military active or not.

"These are first responder prices, and the requirements are pretty easy to meet to be a first responder".

That's interesting. Either you are a bonified first responder or you are not?

I did go to Express but everything M&P is back ordered.I'm not in the military anymore so I don't know if I qualify for the rebate.Anyway,online prices are way cheaper then any LGS where I live.

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How many guns are too many?

I would pick the pro with n/s shoot it for a while before you do any trigger work it will smooth out around five hundred rounds and keeps getting better keep a eye on the sights too some tend to have problems (loose) also make sure your getting the latest model for all the updates there still some older models out there selling for less. The fourty five I feel different I would do the apex sear and striker from them.
Welcome to the fourm great weapon you have picked out.

Nation's Finest - Smith & Wesson

The S&W $50 rebate is good for active, retired or disabled military. It is good through December 31st. Follow the directions, this is a S&W promo and good for any M&P pistol purchased through any dealer.

Code 4 did charge $20 for shipping and insurance was optional at $6. I took it. I always do.

Their prices (like Bud's) are "cash" prices and credit cards add typically 3%. Many LGS have the same policies.

If you have any further questions let me know.

By the way and interestingly enough, my "standard" 40c had a smoother trigger out of the box than my 9Pro. I wouldn't do anything with a trigger until you get a few hundred rounds through it and typically they smooth out. I bought an Apex kit and haven't put it in either gun yet.

Free Shipping?? When I contacted Mitch at EPS today, he said shipping on all pistols was $8.99. Not a lot, but not free either.

In the finial analysis...If I were to have only one M&P it would probably be the 9Pro 4.25 inch with night sights. I'm a user of Crimson Trace Grips so sooner or later I would add a pair.

Maybe the free shipping ended Oct 31st. I don't know. It will be a week or two before they have it again. They always run specials.

Am I a 'bonified' first responder? No. I am prior military so that gets the first responder price. So do pilots, security guards, volunteer firemen, there's a lot of people who will qualify.

Yes some models are back ordered. Like I said many times on this forum, if a dealer charges an excessive amount for his guns, he'll probably have a good stock of them.

I've bought a lot from EPS in the last year. Always free shipping. Always tax free. Always cheaper than I could get anywhere else.

Last I looked they had the 9c with night sights for $455 shipped. No credit card charges, no insurance charges, no shipping charges. I can show you the invoice it's only a few days old. My FFL has run so many guns for me in the last year he has dropped his price from $25 to $20. I know his dog better than my own I think...

I was calling LGS today and a couple of them said S&W was hit with an order of 60K plus M&Ps for the government and that dealers everywhere would be backordered for awhile.When do you think Express will have them in stock again?

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How many guns are too many?

You can get a brand new M&P9 for less than $400 delivered to your FFL from Buds Police Supply with your Army ID card (or any military or public safety ID). Same pistol is probably available at Buds Guns for only a little more money. Pistol is in stock according to their website this morning.

Not sure if this model has the thumb safeties, but these fall out during detailed cleaning and need not be put back.

-- Chuck

I called a new gun shop that just recently opened up near me.I asked the guy what his transfer fee was and he said $40.He then asked if he could give me a price on the firearm I was interested in.I told him,and it was online at under $400,free shipping.That's when his attitude changed.His price was $549 plus tax.He said there was no way that the online price was correct and blah,blah,blah.

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How many guns are too many?

Thanks for the hot tip on Bud's chuck s!!!

I'm going to check that out right now....

Yeah,I checked them out too.They have the M&P I want in stock! The only thing it did not state is how many mags come with it.I'll call them later and ask.

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How many guns are too many?

You know, I've been trying to help people save money on guns for a long time, and I get the same garbage, even on here..
'Oh shipping isn't free...' and 'Oh, it's back ordered...'

Whatever. I have bought a boatload of guns from EPS in the last year, they all shipped free, some I had to wait a week or two, whatever. I'm done trying to save people money. They can find their own deals or pay $549 and think they are really getting a good price because Moe at the LGS said it was a good price.

2- M&P $398 ea
M&Pc with night sights $455
BG380 $289
M&P.22 $281
M&P15-22 A-1 w/flash $399
2 - Streamlight TRL-1s $84 ea

Those are good prices and what I paid with free shipping. From now on no more help from me finding good prices.

And again, thanks chuck s, I'll bookmark that sight and check it frequently. If you try to tell others about it though, you'll be fighting an uphill battle so good luck.

Peace.

One of the reviews says it comes with three mags....

LL,I appreciate your help very much.The only reason I said Express was backordered was I read it online.Had I called them I probably would have been told they were in stock.

What pi**es me off is when I try to get a price on transfer the LGS guy gets an attitude about online prices beating the hell out of his price.I have never ordered a firearm online so all this is new to me.

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How many guns are too many?

I must be getting "older",because i'm not reading things as when I was younger. LOL!

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How many guns are too many?

Not mad at you Ruger Nut, I've been posting prices for over a year and always get the remarks from guys that don't even try to look for a good price. "I looked and it said backordered" or "The free shipping ended and now they charge a few bucks" well la tee da man.... So buy that $549 gun with two mags and don't buy the $398 gun with three... I just don't care anymore.

That Bud's Police site looks pretty awesome!! That's the worst part of Express Police is their website. Some guns have no details, some are priced wrong (like when they had 20% off EVERYTHING--- ) so I'm going to watch Bud's. I just picked up two more guns though and still have one on order... The warden is getting a bit upset I think, and when she gets upset she goes shopping

I found my local FFL at the gun club. Ask around, my guy works out of his house. Or you can get your own FFL I hear. My brother has a buddy that buys so many guns he got his FFL and now will do my brother's guns for free, so ask around at a local gun club maybe.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...1_Dec11_v3.pdf

Here is the link to the S&W M&P Military $50 rebate.

Don't forget, "someone" has to pay full or near retail MSRP. That's the only way others get the discounts.

I thank you all for your replies. I'm going to get the M&P9 range and carry kit. Standard m&p with no thumb safety, no mag safety, and no internal lock. 3 17 rd mags. Bladetech holster and mag holder. Eventually going to add night sights and probably a trigger job. Seems Buds is the only place that has it in stock so I guess that is the ticket.

Excellent choice! It comes with a upLula loader too doesn't it? You need one of those.

I would suggest that you keep the stock trigger and practice, practice, practice. Actually, since you make no mention of previous experience, perhaps I should suggest finding a marksmanship instructor and train, train and train some more.

I would also strongly suggest that a light would be a far better investment than night sights. You want to indentify your target, not just shoot it. The TLR-1 can be had around $100 and is an excellent tool. These generally come with a universal key (rail engagment lug) and will benefit from installing the actual Picatinny/1913 rail key (about $8).

It does come with the speed loader as well. I do not have too much previous experience. I have had my dad who spent 38 years in the military give me a few pointers but plan on taking an NRA pistol course. The instructor at our local range gets very high remarks from everyone who has taken the class.


What is the reasoning behind the recommendation to keep the stock trigger? I have heard so many things about a trigger job vastly improving performance.

I plan to eventually get a rail mounted light/laser combo. Is there any disadvantage to having night sights? Do night sights work as well as white dot/dovetail sights during the day? Or in combination with a light?

I have an M&P 9 Full Size and M&P 9C w/CTG Laser Grips which will also fit the M&P40C (which I have). Also have an M&P45C. Recently acquired the M&P VTAC 40. Personally, I like the 40 the best. The VTAC sights . . . . well, neither the Nite or Fiber Optic work very good at all at an indoor range. It is a pretty bright range, so the nite sights are dark and the light is not direct, so the fiber optics don't light up. It's kind of like shooting it with black sights. I really like shooting the 40 compact the most out of the 5 of them. Don't get me wrong, the 9's and 45 are also great firearms; I just like the whole 40 experience more. As far as Home Defense, get a 20 or 12 gauge pump with Hogue pistol grip and 18 1/2" barrel. On the street for personal defense, the 40 would be a better choice from an energy standpoint.

Lots of questions, I have some input:

You'll learn something from every teacher you go to. Every little bit helps.

The stock trigger can be pretty good or pretty bad. They vary. None of mine are bad. None of mine are excellent either. But these are SD guns not target rifles. Some say keeping a stock trigger may be beneficial if you ever are involved in a SD shooting as it may not invite scrutiny into your motive by an overzealous prosecutor. Your call.

Rail light, I have Streamlights. Mine are bright, 160 lumens bright. They really light up a room or even the woods outside. I like them, I like keeping a hand free for a phone or to hold my dog back, or open a door.

Night sights, I have them on two M&P's. They are not as bright during the day as the white dot. They light up nicely at night though, and even with a weapon light, all the light is forward of the gun, so night sights work really well in that situation. Really well.

To deal with your questions:

As noted by others, you're not buying a pistol to shoot in the Olympics. We have several hundred M&Ps in service and don't have any triggers that would interfere with our usage-which obviously isn't 50 yard slow fire at the Olympics. What you want in a trigger is a action that allows a smooth trigger stroke, which most stock S&W triggers will get to in several hundred rounds. This will leave you with a trigger whose action strongly resembles a double action revolver with a very good trigger job. In a weapon being used for serious purposes, this an an outstanding type of trigger action. Remember: shooting is a physical skill, you cannot buy a mechanical device that provides you that skill (although a lot of people try and there are always those who will profit from them).

Further explanation of this would require a lengthy article, not a brief post. Really short form: your hopefully never needed usage will involve high stress, raging hormonal levels with possible reduction in physical skills and a lack of initial and sustainment training adequate to deal with these issues. For these and other reasons, deciding to alter the weapon without the experience and training to make a properly informed decision isn't wise. Also, self defense isn't target shooting on a square range.

I've used night sights almost since their development. I prefer an insert only in the front sight. However, if you have either a weapon mounted light or hand held light, they aren't necessary. Your money is better spent on practice ammo. Ditto the additional expense of a laser.

While fiber optics may be all the rage on game guns, they aren't a good choice on weapons for serious purposes. I've seen broken inserts in every match I've been to and the price on the street (or in the home) can be considerably higher than dropped points or a time penalty. In one instance, it contributed to a factory sponsored shooter making a head shot on a hostage target. There are no time outs, mulligans or do overs in a gun fight.

Enjoy your