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01-11-2012, 12:20 PM
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LGS & Questionable Ethics
I was in a LGS yesterday looking at a used S&W .357 4" stainless revolver w/fixed sights (cannot recall model #). Using a flashlight in the rear of the cylinder to check the timing I discovered the 6th chamber was badly out of time (I repeated the test several times). I brought this to the attention of the clerk and he said he would have the gunsmith check it. The clerk returned w/i a couple of minutes saying the gunsmith looked it over and said there was nothing wrong. At that point I told him I liked the gun but would pass since there was something wrong. The clerk put the gun back in the case without another word.
Lesson learned for me - I won't do business there again, ever. I learned to check out used revolvers from one of our range officers during my LEO career so I know what I'm talking about. Has anyone had a similar experience and if so, what did you do about it?
Thanks,
Old Cop
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01-11-2012, 12:24 PM
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How can 1 chamber be out of time and not some of the others? Was it bored wrong?
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James L. "Jim" Rhiner
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01-11-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrhiner
How can 1 chamber be out of time and not some of the others? Was it bored wrong?
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Agreed............... How did you test for it?
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Dick
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01-11-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop
I was in a LGS yesterday looking at a used S&W .357 4" stainless revolver w/fixed sights (cannot recall model #). Using a flashlight in the rear of the cylinder to check the timing I discovered the 6th chamber was badly out of time (I repeated the test several times). I brought this to the attention of the clerk and he said he would have the gunsmith check it. The clerk returned w/i a couple of minutes saying the gunsmith looked it over and said there was nothing wrong. At that point I told him I liked the gun but would pass since there was something wrong. The clerk put the gun back in the case without another word.
Lesson learned for me - I won't do business there again, ever. I learned to check out used revolvers from one of our range officers during my LEO career so I know what I'm talking about. Has anyone had a similar experience and if so, what did you do about it?
Thanks,
Old Cop
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You used a flashlight in the rear of the cylinder to check timing?? Oh wait; I see you learned how to check revolvers from a range officer. Most impressive
BTW, Way to go on losing a gun shop.
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01-11-2012, 06:12 PM
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I'd be very interested in how to check timing, I don't know how and don't want to get burned, if all it takes is a good flashlight, then I'm halfway their.
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01-11-2012, 06:34 PM
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Guys it was a "Timing Light".....duh!
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01-11-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiram2005
Guys it was a "Timing Light".....duh!
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Duh, why didn't I think of that?
I was wondering how he sees anything through the recoil shield from the rear of the cylinder.
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Dick
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01-11-2012, 07:09 PM
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Greetings,
I would encourage you to check out:
What is the REAL test for revolver timing?
I believe most of the answers to your question will be within the post.
In terms of an "ethics question", it's a hard call.
There are many people who work behind LGS counters that are unfamiliar with their product; it is in this instance and circumstance that I feel you encountered (based on context).
Any reputable shop, with qualified employees, would take a potential safety or quality issue seriously and at least get a second opinion.
Hope this helps.
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Rather be outdoors
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01-11-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiram2005
Guys it was a "Timing Light".....duh!
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Why of course; why didn't I think of that
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01-11-2012, 07:31 PM
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So you just don't buy that gun, where's the question in that ? Nothing to be gained by getting into a p'in contest over what may or may not be wrong with just one gun.
If you're into old guns you'll stand to lose more than them over time by never going back.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face as the old folks used to say
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01-11-2012, 08:33 PM
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So if a car dealer has a car with one bad tire I guess you never go back and look at any other cars?
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01-11-2012, 08:40 PM
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Update: I called the LGS today and spoke w/a manager. I explained the circumstances and said I was not complaining, just letting him know they may have a gun that is not safe. The manager said he would pull the gun and have their smith give it a good going over. He then offered to hold it for me if I was still interested, and at a very fair price. I thanked him and said I would be by in a few days to look it over again.
This is a good LGS for old revolvers and I was hasty, as pointed out here, saying I would not go back. I wanted to thank all who offered helpful opinions. To the one or two that were snarky or downright nasty all I can say is please keep your nonsense to yourself. This Forum is a great place to get and share info, so if you are not going to help stay home and keep quiet. We don't need you here (you know who you are).
Best,
Old Cop
LEO 1968 - 1997
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01-11-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHobbyist
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Good link. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop
Update: I called the LGS today and spoke w/a manager. I explained the circumstances and said I was not complaining, just letting him know they may have a gun that is not safe. The manager said he would pull the gun and have their smith give it a good going over. He then offered to hold it for me if I was still interested, and at a very fair price. I thanked him and said I would be by in a few days to look it over again.
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Good call. Talking to the Management often helps a lil bit.
Let us know how it worked out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slumpy
So if a car dealer has a car with one bad tire I guess you never go back and look at any other cars?
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It always depends on how people treat me if I go back to a shop/store (whatever they sell). Not on their inventory.
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Jorge
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01-11-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop
Update:
This is a good LGS for old revolvers and I was hasty, as pointed out here, saying I would not go back. I wanted to thank all who offered helpful opinions. To the one or two that were snarky or downright nasty all I can say is please keep your nonsense to yourself. This Forum is a great place to get and share info, so if you are not going to help stay home and keep quiet. We don't need you here (you know who you are).
Best,
Old Cop
LEO 1968 - 1997
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Come on OC,You got to admit the "timing light" was a good one.
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Dum vivo cano
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01-11-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathGrip
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I almost peed myself laughing!
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01-11-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathGrip
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It was alright but the guys that mentioned it didn't give any instructions. So......
'Grippy, be a pal please. Call me at home. I've got out my old 27 and the timing light......and I can't figure out how to hook up the timing light; is the batt-ry under the grips on a 27??
God bless and please help.
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01-11-2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJ nut
It was alright but the guys that mentioned it didn't give any instructions. So......
'Grippy, be a pal please. Call me at home. I've got out my old 27 and the timing light......and I can't figure out how to hook up the timing light; is the batt-ry under the grips on a 27??
God bless and please help.
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My timing light only runs on eight.I'm thinking one would need a ohm meeter to figure it out. I hear they got a new hookup that fits in the IL port and can recharge downloads or make pancakes.
Ohmmmmmm.
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01-11-2012, 10:24 PM
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There are a couple of things being checked here, and it would be well to keep them from being confused: - Timing is the motion of the cylinder bolt from drop to rise to lockup.
- Co-linearity is the alignment of the barrel and a given cylinder chamber.
Either one of these can be out-of-spec and cause problems between bullets and forcing cones.
Timing is correct when (a) the bolt disengages from the cylinder before cylinder motion, as the hammer retracts; (b) the bolt rises back to the cylinder surface before the lead-in to the cylinder notch is reached (for a S&W), and (3) the bolt locks in the notch before the hammer reaches its rearmost position. This can be tested on each chamber by looking and listening as the hammer is cocked.
Co-linearity is usually checked with a range rod. If you don't have a range rod handy, an alternative (but slightly less accurate) method is to shine a strong flashlight parallel to the recoil shield at the back of the cylinder at the elevation of the barrel, and then to observe the alignment of the barrel and chamber from the muzzle. This will not be as accurate as a range rod, but someone skilled in the method can detect a slightly larger misalignment than a range rod - and if it's there for this method, it will be for a range rod - leave the gun, keep the money.
Buck
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01-11-2012, 10:25 PM
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Aside from the humor, (the timing light was funny) I'm still confused. I read the link to the other thread. We're not really talking timing here, we're talking wear to the gear at the back of the cylinder. If the timing was off, none of the cylinders would lock up correctly.
Or am I wrong on this?
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James L. "Jim" Rhiner
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01-11-2012, 11:53 PM
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Good info Haggis!! I was just about to ask how one would check the timing with a flashlight!!
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01-12-2012, 12:48 AM
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