Looking to get the hard sear, but I'm not sure if I should spend the extra and get the DCAEK?

It'll be going on my MP9c which is my conceal carry...

I believe the hard sear will lower the trigger to about 4.5-5lbs which I'm happy with on a EDC

from what I can tell the DCAEK is the same thing except the trigger is at about 5.5lbs for people that aren't comfortable with 4.5-5 lbs... is there any other benefit to it?

one thing I don't like on my MP9c is a rather heavy 2nd stage. when the slack is gone it gets pretty heavy...

so I'm looking for advice on if I should only get the hard sear or DCAEK?

There are some other things I see on their website like the USB so i'm little lost as to what I need

thanks!

Get the Kit.

Search the forum about these.
The number of posters that "got this part" or "that part" and complained that the improvements were not worth it; only to rave once the "full kit" was in.

as to pull weight, the dcaek is rated for 4.5-5.5 based on what the trigger was stock.

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Gerry

I have an M&P45c and an M&P40c that I have both installed the DCAEK in. I like them much better with the kits than without. Great products and customer service with a very knowledgeable staff if you have any questions or issues.

what does the kit add as far as 'better' trigger? from what it looked like, it doesn't smooth further, but just brings the trigger to about 5.5 lbs instead of like 4.5. I would honestly prefer 4.5-5lbs... not 5.5-6

afaik the hard sear will improve reset and lower the lbs

FWIW my price is 75 bucks at brownells for the DCAEK
sear is only 33

I agree!!! Get the whole kit! I installed just the sear and it did improve things but it was 10 times better once I installed the USB and springs in the kit. Plus it's cheaper if you buy it all now verses buying it in parts.

+1 to get the kit. The USB will greatly improve the trigger take up and eliminate the rough or "gritty" feel when squeezing the trigger.

The hard sear will lighten and smooth the sear release due to a different sear engagement angle. After installation you will notice a much reduced tendency for the muzzle to jump in one direction when dryfiring. The included sear plunger spring, I understand will help eliminate the possibility of a dead trigger due to "sear bounce".

Add those parts first. Then, if the trigger feels too light for your purposes, you can add the trigger return spring.

Just IMHO, but the USB (or striker block, or drop safety) is a key update - it smooths out the trigger bar action considerably. The result is just going to shoot better. The hard sear helps a lot, too. The springs that go with the sear update are probably neutral, but if you're going to swap the sear, swap the spring, too.

The trigger spring, which is also a bear to install is a YMMV, I think. It will change the overall feel a bit, and it's best to just pick what feels better.

An observation: I'm an old wheelgunner.... 40+ years since I bought my first S&W revolvers. In those days an out-of-the-box S&W revolver generally had about the best overall feel of anything on the market. (Not to revive the ancient Colt v.s. S&W wars, but I've tried 'em all.)

Adding the DCAEK kit to my one of my M&P's (I'd noted a bit of a drop in "feel", v.s. some older S&W semi's and my revolvers) more or less brought the M&P's up to the revolver standards!

(I bought two more kits almost immediately....)

It'd be nice if S&W would buy their sears and USB's from Apex .

Regards,

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Stu.

OK, I was looking to get the Hard sear & the striker block, or just get the DCAEK which I think I'm going to do. So who else installed the RAM and what affect did that have? Not sure if I should get that too while I'm at it. And do you just order them from Apex direct or do they sell them cheaper elsewhere?

Where are you guys getting these kits? Any problems fitting in a Shield?

APEX Tactical.
If you buy parts from them, pretty much across the board, FAST shipping.
What stuff to buy is still wildly debated, but I've never heard anything bad about their customer service.

Welcome to Apex Tactical Specialties, Inc.

The install doesn't look too bad, I think it will take about an hour for me...

thing is I don't have any punches. will anyone be kind enough to tell me what size punches I will need?

The AEK trigger is an outstanding addition too. It shortens up the pre-travel and over-travel considerably (honestly, it feels like more than the advertised 20%). Adding it, along with the hard sear and USB, made the gun feel perfect, for me (I strongly prefer the flat trigger face and bar-type safety).

All were extremely easy to install (with zero prior experience). The hardest part was getting the pin in the trigger to catch the trigger bar (I have big, fat fingers); after that it was smooth sailing.

1/8in for the frame. If you do the AEK trigger, you'll need a 1/16in for the small pin that connects the trigger and trigger bar.

I have bought all my Apex kits from Midway USA. Same stuff same fast shipping, but cheaper shipping cost.

I installed the RAM and the reset is better. I didn't really mind it before but this did improve it and figured I might as well just do it all.

As far as punches go all you need is an 1/8" roll punch

ok, got it... 1/8th punch

well, I did some more reading here and it looks like the hard sear, RAM and USB are the 3 things to get. will drop the trigger to about 4-5lbs...

The only think I see with DCAEK is the addition of the trigger return spring and hard sear spring, which actually make the trigger heavier, which is what I don't want... I don't see any other benefit to the DCAEK vs the hard sear, USB and RAM.

I think I'm better off buying the Hard sear, USB and RAM instead. the Increased Rate Sear Spring & Trigger Return Spring don't do anything else but add about a pound to the trigger pull correct?

it actually cost more with hard sear, USB and RAM ($80.34) vs the DCAEK ($74.44)

taseal:

I think I'd buy the whole kit .... Might as well save a buck.

I would (I did) install the sear spring as long as things are apart - I don't think it'll have that much effect. Install the trigger spring if you feel you want it.

(The sear spring and plunger may go flying. Be prepared with a plastic bag. The USB - drop safety - requires removing the rear sight, but it seems to be pretty easy. At least the three I did.)

That's an 1/8" roll pin punch. Sort of a little projection on the end. A standard punch can damage the pin, and muck up the hole in the plastic parts.

(Replacement roll pins aren't that hard to find. Replacement plastic grips, a little harder .)

The trigger spring really is a magic jigsaw puzzle, IMHO. Watch the videos. If you're used to this sort of thing, it's not too terrible, though. I found replacing the sear block frustrating, but I just kept playing with it. The trigger block, OTOH, involved a lot of cursing. Still, not the end of the world. Easier than replacing the sear on a P3AT.... (Whole new meaning of non-intuitive.)

Regards,

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Stu.

it's only more expensive if you include the RAM...

what do you think about the ram? worth it? or is the rest of the stuff make the reset noticable enough that I won't need it?

I have the RAM in mine also.
Pro's:
Improves reset FEEL. It does not in any way change the reset point.
You will find you get a very posative tactile and audible indication that reset has happened.

The ability to reset the trigger even if the spring fails. Just push the trigger forward with either finger and it will fire again. Can't do this without the RAM.

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Gerry

I bought the DCAEK kit, I did not replace the trigger spring. I was told that the trigger spring added about a pound to the trigger pull and was meant for guys that use the pistol for a carry gun. The idea is that the trigger is just a little harder to pull so in a stress situation, the trigger is not so light you fire the pistol before you really meant to. I don't carry my M&P so it was not a concern for me. Buy the kit, then you have options, and the improvement is so good, you will not regret it at all!
Rabbit

I shot my friend's glock today, I haven't shot one in a year or so... I forget how nice the reset (his take up was very smooth too) those glocks have. I wonder how close I will get to that with this. Makes me wish M&P did this from teh start like everyone else.

Right, I hear ya.. I can understand that. but I'm not sure if I have the balls to take up slack and 'load' the trigger before I decide to shoot. I will most likely just pull the trigger all the way. who knows...

to each their own for sure. I guess I'll play with it. My 1911 is a 4.5lb trigger, and it's def light, but not scary light. scary light is my 2lb remington... lol

I purchased the DCAEK for both my 9C and 45C. I installed the kit in both pistols, but soon afterward returned to the original trigger spring leaving the Apex Tactical hard sear and ultimate striker block installed. These two parts turned two great pistols into two awesome pistols.

I see. it's not that light without it right? I mean they seem to make it like it's dangerous to have it as a carry pistol without it

It's been awhile and I don't remember exactly why, but I definitely preferred the stock trigger spring over the spring that came with the DCAEK. The Apex hard sear and ultimate striker block made a definite world of difference in both pistols.

Awesome, I got the sear, usb and ram. I think this will work best for me

taseal:

The RAM puts a spring out on the sear end of the trigger bar. The M&P design depends on the trigger spring (and a cam in the slide) to get the trigger bar end moved around and sear reset after a shot. The M&P spring is quite some distance from the sear, and, while part of the design, it's ability to move the tip of the trigger bar is almost an accident.

The RAM ("Reset Assist Mechanism") is a round bar with a flat "U" cut into one end, with sharp walls. A spring on the RAM bar moves it from the un-reset position to the reset position, whether your trusty trigger spring wants it to or not. Apex used the Hilary Lock hole in the sear block. Slick, IMHO.

If the trigger spring fails (you could live without it from a "pull the trigger" standpoint if nothing fouls), the trigger bar won't necessarily reset the sear. You still have to work the slide a bit, but the RAM will drag the trigger bar tip to the right place.

(You also get a more positive reset, regardless.)

However, these things are stamped out like donuts, and you may or may not notice anything when installing the kit. If everything does exactly what it's supposed to do, there'll be a nicer "click". But not every M&P seems to manage that. IAC, it'll do what it's supposed to do.

While recommending the removal of a manufacturer-supplied safety device is really off my list, you have to pull the Hilary Lock to install the RAM. S&W will happily give you a plug for the little hole.

I'm not sure if Apex ever got around to a RAM that'll work on thumb safety guns, but the original (couple years ago, now) won't - the Hilary Lock hole's just not there. It has to work somewhat differently....

I just installed the full kit plus RAM (the latter on two M&P's, 'cause one's got a thumb safety). The RAM doesn't do much for me, but I can feel the reset a tad louder/better if I'm paying attention. For SD the trigger spring "helper" (i.e., a bit of help if you lose the trigger spring) may be a better reason.

Regards,

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Stu.

cool, thanks!

I ordered the RAM, I guess I'll try it and see how it works, on my other M&Ps I'll install it after I feel for that.

taseal

I installed the DCAEK and RAM in my 9mm FS and it has a much better feel in how much smoother and lighter the trigger is, I used the stock trigger spring and I'm getting a 4.12 average trigger pull, with the Apex spring I was getting a 5.6 average trigger pull.

I was not hearing or feeling the reset that I expected after Installing the RAM and Emailed Apex about it, I received a call the next day from them and was told that it was because my gun has the magazine safety in it.

He told me that for legal reasons they could not tell me to remove the mag safety and sent me a stronger RAM spring to see if it would help, I have left it the way it is for now but some day I will remove the Mag safety and use the extra spring they sent me for the spacer needed when the Mag safety is removed just to see how it feels.

Gary

You can get the hard sear like I did and it makes the trigger feel much better. The install was not hard but I did have an issue and I called APEX and they helped me out. Great part , great service.

Thanks guys

hdbeast, the MP9C doesn't have mag safety. the fullsize does... but that's my duty gun, and I won't touch it. lol

that being said, 4.12 does sound ok. I would like to get 4.5 or so. but I have a good trigger safety theory. if the finger ain't in there, it ain't going off. when the finger is in there, it shouldn't take muhc.

GRP17,

what issue did you have? I'm not a fan of taking guns apart, so i'm a little worried I mess something up. but the install looked very straight forward.

hdbeast:

First I heard about the mag safety issue.... However, it's possible. I think the "noise" is a YMMV thing, 'cause both of my RAM-equipped guns don't have the mag safety.... Tolerances.... IAC, a stiffer spring won't hurt anything.

(IMHO, the noise is just a byproduct, and if the tolerances are a little off, may not be there.)

The lever that provides the magazine safety necessitates two springs on it's pin. About any old spring (I suggested one from a ballpoint pen, half as a joke, but it appears that it does work) will do the job. The spring is really a spacer and friction enhancer so things don't flop around.

It is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle for me, but about anybody who's into working on these things should be able to handle it. Always seems to me that getting the sear block back into the grip is a fight, but I just keep trying. The USB is no problem if the rear sight moves easily and you're reasonably careful of the spring under the sight.

The trigger block needs a "pilot" pin. I found the one that Apex sent along was too short. Ended up running in a punch from the wrong side, and then using their pilot and the trigger pin together. Seemed to work, but it took some tries .

Having been an engineer of sorts in a previous life, I understand some of the strange stuff they come up with, but some head-shaking may also be in order at times. (2nd worst being a cellphone that apparently was designed by several working groups at one time. "Back" was two different buttons, for example, depending on what you were doing.... Worst being the re-assembly technique for the Walther P22, where a little bit of plastic is pretty much necessary to re-assemble the gun, and you'll probably lose it.)

Regards,

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Stu.

does anyone know if home depot would carry the 1/8 roll punch?

Was curious because I'm gonna check it out after work tomorrow, and if they don't carry single pieces, I'll just order from amazon now. but I rather have it tomorrow for install

ps - parts are here from brownells. I love their shipping times. ordered monday, here already

My local home depot did not have them but, lowes may. I'd just call around to ask. I ended up ordering an entire set from ebay for 9 bucks and was here in 2 days.

I'm still waiting on my dcaek that will be here saturday. Can't freaking wait. I've been continually checking the tracking because I'm so anxious.

lol i hear ya... I had a feeling it would be here today and I was right. I want to install it, but promised my friend we'd do it together, so he can see how as well, and perhaps he can get that.

that being said, I guess I'll just order it from amazon now lol

Yeah online seems to work out better for me when it comes to stuff for working on firearms. My home depot, I was there yesterday. Was sold out of almost every file in the store. I wanted one for some 1911 work. I ended up getting one at lowes but paid significantly more than online retailers.

I picked up a nice set at Sears - Craftsman, made in the USA and a lifetime guarantee 19.00 dollars.

My M&P40 trigger is not gritty at all...just has a hard pull after the slack has been taken up. If I just want to lighten the trigger pull to 4.5 lbs do I just need the sear? Do I need the striker block if mine isn't gritty? BTW, is a striker block safe? For example, if you drop the pistol with one in the pipe?

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40c FS,9Shield(2)40,9Pro

Roger:

IMHO, do the striker block (Apex calls it an "USB") as well as the sear. The former will smooth out the last bit of trigger travel with little effect on anything else.

The USB is supposed to prevent the striker from moving if the gun is dropped, among other possible things, like a "tap" on the trigger that can be sufficient to release the sear/striker, but not enough to keep the USB in "fire" position.

IMHO, they're safer than nothing in this design. If you look at the connection between the striker and the sear, there's not a lot there. There can't be, or it'd be too difficult to release. The Apex version is identical to the stock one except that the edges that the trigger bar hits first are rounded over a bit, and the whole thing is a tad less flat. There's a little flag on the trigger bar that slides over the USB, and if it's not tall enough, the gun won't fire, but that appears to be the only downside.

Dry firing will smooth out an M&P trigger, but the Apex USB will just speed that up a bit .

IMHO, for SD use, it may be a little better to have it. Paper-punchers and other speed/accuracy guys probably should use it without question.

Regards,

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Stu.