What would you do with the 28 year deserter who has lived in Sweden since deserting in 1984?

As a retired USAF Veteran, my sentiments are probably a bit harsh for some but as I recall USAF has always been a volunteer branch of the service and he had the opportunity to try for "Conscientious Objector" or some other form of release.

Personally, I would proceed with court martial and let the chips fall where they may.

Let the deserter stay where they are. They chose to desert their country not the other way around. Why should any deserter be welcomed back?

A deserter is still a deserter no matter how much time has passed. He/she should be held accountable for his/her decision.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

Servicemembers who volunteered and took the same oath as he did are fighting and dying for our country, while he is off living the good life. This deserter failed in his obligations and should be punished accordingly.

Sweden wanted him, they can have him. Revoke his citizenship.

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Even older, even crankier....

If he wants to come back, court martial and he pays the price other wise he can stay where he is at.

He volunteered, and wasn't drafted...he was not serving in a combat zone. He didn't even have the courage of his so-called convictions to stand up and say that he could no longer serve because of his new beliefs. Even if he wasn't willing to ask for a discharge and accept the consequences, then he should have honored his commitment by finishing his enlistment and then leaving the military life behind. Instead, he ran and hid, and lived a lie, and dishonored himself and his country.

Why should we take him back, much less want him back? Revoke his citizenship, and tell him that we won't pursue him, but if he ever sets a foot on US territory, he will be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Well - Come On Down!
You, sir, have won an ALL EXPENSES PAID 20 YEAR VACATION in beautiful Leavenworth Kansas.
At the conclusion of which you will be deported to a country that will accept you (N. Korea sounds like fun).

Ignore the above IF we still shoot deserters.....

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In dog years I'm dead.

The right answer:

It would set a very bad precedent not to court martial him -- all inductees of all services are given a quick tutorial on the Uniform Code of Military Justice -- and AWOL and desertion are covered in that briefing. If you sign the oath of enlistment, you simply cannot just walk off the job. An enlistment is a contract with the government to serve a specified length of time in return for pay and benefits. It can be enforced by both sides (government and soldier/airman/Marine/sailor).

The military recognizes that some who sign up either may not be suitable for service in the long term or have other issues (family hardship, for example). All services provide for administrative discharges (we call it being "chaptered out", based on which chapter of the admin discharge code one is seeking discharge on). You can seek discharge for family hardship. religious reasons/CO status, incompatibility, etc. -- your type of discharge depends on the actual factual issues, but usually one can get a general discharge under honorable conditions unless one is a total screwup. A general discharge under honorable conditions does not impact your future.
A general discharge under other than honorable conditions could possibly affect your future (it shoes you have issues) but it is far less onerous than a dishonorable discharge (which carries a status akin to being a convicted felon, since 99% of the time a military felony is what leads to a DD). There is also a BCD (bad conduct discharge) for reasons the name implies.

Note: all service members have the absolute right to contact a chaplain or JAG officer at any time to discuss any issues they have legal/spiritual, free of charge of course. Service members are told and know they have this right. Example: service member signs up, decides the service is not the answer fo him/her after a few months -- go see the chaplain for moral support, go talk to JAG and find out the right way to get out via an administrative discharge. The services usually do not want to waste time on folks who just do not "fit" the service model.

So, 28-year deserter had a very viable option to exit the service but chose not to do it the right way. He deserves no slack. Desertion is a serious offense because, for example, you don't want folks thinking they can just quit right before the big battle or attack. When you go in harm's way, you need the confidence that the guys on the left and right of you will still be there once initial contact with the enemy is made and the bullets start pinging off nearby objects. Simple as that.

Court-martial him and let him spend a few years at the DB (Disciplinary Barracks) at FT Leavenworth, making small rocks out of big rocks (they actually aren't required to do that anymore). Set a good example for everyone that does things right.

Duty, honor, country are not just mere words.

I was in the USAF in '84, can't imagine what he was running from, there wasn't anything going on!

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Forget revoking his citizenship so he can live the comfy life in Sweden. He needs to get his PCS orders to Ft. Leavenworth's Disciplinary Barracks like all the other sacks of unmentionables belong. There are plenty of people in the military who don't like their jobs, their stations, or have a wife & family who are one more deployment drop away from walking out the door for good that are sticking it out anyway. Believe me I've seen my share of objectionable stuff in the Air Force, and I'm not talking about wartime stuff. Crooked people in uniform at upper ranks doing crooked things with impunity is the kind of thing that would make any thinking person say "screw this". But I didn't,because I and thousands of others -to this day-upheld our end of the bargain even if Uncle Sam didn't, on pain of death in some cases. For this sleazebag to appoint himself above the agreement he made, when the Marines who were ordered to disarm in a combat zone for a political speech didn't, is a violation which demands justice.

One day or twenty eight years, he is still a deserter. He is to be treated as such.

When I was posted to the US Embassy in Germany we had a deserter walk in after the wall came down in '89.
He'd gone over to E. Germany in 1964, IIRC. Had actually lost much of his English from lack of practice.
The JAG there did some sort of simple paperwork to make his case go away.
I guess 24 years in E Germany was punishment enough.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

A deserter is still just that, and needs to face the consequences.

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James

One of the best moments of my career was locking up a deserter and turning him over to the Armed Forced PD guys that came to pick him up, and seeing the looks on their faces when they accepted him. I would not have wanted to be in that car during the transport back ............

Too bad, he deserves the long tour at Leavenworth.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

A deserter is a deserter. Court martial and carry out of sentence. Preferably in Kansas assembling Ikea furniture without instructions for a few years.

My only question is legal, is there a statute of limitations that applies? Have to follow the law but I assume the statute of limitations applies to him being charged with desertion, which was I assume done many years ago and within the statutory requirements. After that he's just a wanted man.

At first I was just going to dismiss this man as a little insect, buzzing like a bug in Sweden...

Then I got to thinking...

You know that feeling you get when you return to the United States from abroad? The one that is a mixture of thanksgiving, pride, relief and a subtle joy?

Those are all lost to him forever.

I sincerely believe he's living as a stranger in a strange land, and it took this long for the yearning to return to the US to finally peak.

Even if he is allowed to return, with or without legal action, remember, he also walked away from all family and friends.

And this country is still lost to him...forever.

Len

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Qui me amat, amet et canem meum

I work with an older guy that used to pick up deserters and other miscreants for the Navy and Marine Corps. He worked out of Albuquerque at the time, man, he has some good stories.

My response is not nearly as eloquent or informative as Col. Jagdog's ...

I say bring the deserter home asap, then book 'em Dano. He's a coward and a disgrace to everyone who bravely served in uniform and honored their obligations.

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I'm with the banned ...

I understand the need to have him face military justice. My problem with that is that, after he serves his time, he is back in the good old USA as a US citizen. I do not believe anyone who breaks their oath to their country deserves to claim this great country as their home.

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Even older, even crankier....

In my 22 years in the Navy, we had all sorts of deserters who were rounded up by the police on some sort of routine traffic stop, the police officer runs a check and "Surprise!', the Navy still wants you! Some had been gone six years or more.

All of them got some sort of Court Martial, 60-120 days in the Brig, and an Other Than Honarable or Bad Conduct Discharge.

One guy who had been gone six months or so got 15 days in the Brig, and convinced our Commanding Officer to let him stay in the Navy. He agreed, and turned out to be an OK sailor, served the remainder of his enlistment and got an Honorable Discharge....

Another guy I served with had gone "Over the Hill" for 45 days or so early in his carreer, got punished and retained. He served 20 years, and was looking forward to getting off the ship and retiring on his 20 year mark, but found out he had to serve those 45 days as "Bad Time", time not credited on your enlistment or toward retirement, so he go stay with us another 45 hot, punishing days in the Persian Gulf.

I still have and use often while camping a nice backpack that was given to me by a police officer who had rounded up one of our lost sailors while hitch hiking on I-95, he gave me all of his personal gear he had when picked up. After he got out of the Brig, he never returned for his gear.

Does the military still hang people?

Unfortunately no...... The last one we had just got a field grade and kicked out after 6+ months of legal wrangling

POUR ENCOURAGER LES AUTRES

Take him to Germany, court martial, DD or BCD, put on the no-fly list and turn him loose. He can get back to Sweden on his own.

bob

I had not earlier investigated the backstory on David Hemler, the deserter. He was assigned to the 6913th Electronic Security Squadron in Germany. Probably had a TS (Top Secret) or SCI (Separate, Compartmented Information) which is a significant level higher -- and while I am not familiar with what an electronic security squadron does, I can venture a guess that is probably 90% on target as to their mission and why the Air Force was torqued that he deserted. Obviously, I do not know if he compromised any information that he might have had acess to, but the Air Force had him included in their top 8 Most Wanted list -- usually there is a reason for that.
Liberal Sweden in the mid-80's -- were there bad guy snoops trolling for sensitive info there??? Bear in mind that the Wikipedia leak soldier was only a specialist (E-4) who had access to very sensitive info.

Food for thought.

He has had to drive old Volvos for 28 years, hasn't he suffered enough?

He is dead to me.


Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

I'm ashamed of Swedens policy in mathers like this.

But i don't want to be banned for life,
so i will not coment any more in this mather

It is generally a month in jail and a negative discharge. The longest I recall reading about was 15 months in prison. Sweden is a nice enough place if you do not mind snow.

The last time anyone was executed was WW2. It proved counter productive since afterwards guys would just shoot it out with the MPs.

No particular effort is expended to actually look for those who walked away. You have to be stopped for something else usually before it is noticed.

Court martial, confinement and a Dishonorable Discharge.

As another poster said, put him on the terrorist watch list and no fly list.

The last will effectively ruin the rest of his life. A Big Chicken Dinner (Bad Conduct Dishcharge) is not enough. The Dishonorable is the only suitable answer. Try getting a job with that hanging over you. Or any benefits that he
may try to weasel into.

And he has earned every bit of this IMHO.

Time does not heal all wounds.
The whole thing turns my stomach.....

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Take your time..quickly.

He tried for "Conscientious Objector" status and was turned down.
The Swedes didn't know he was a deserter.

Just give him a DD and forget this piece of garbage.

AFS

This...

I don't see what kind of deterrent you think it's gonna be to send someone who you couldn't catch for 28 years to federal prison for something like this. A DD will haunt him for the rest of his life as-is. Assuming he actually wants to return to America and work. Dont think he will be able to own a firearm too.

We get calls for service every couple months from the Army to check addresses for AWOL soldiers

Revoke his citizenship and leave him in Sweden!

While I understand the emotional response over a deserter, I think we need to add a little perspective to this. The U.S. was not involved in any "major" military conflicts during 1984. As such it's my guess that this "person" deserted during peace time. For this specific reason I do not think it's worth our time and money to file for extradition to get this guy returned to the U.S. from Sweden. Unless we want to send someone there to kidnap the guy (which won't make the Swedish government happy), it's simply not a prudent use of limited DoD funds. Making that kind of investment to get this dirtbag back would accomplish little aside from revenge.

On the other hand, the U.S. did participate as part of a peacekeeping force in Lebanon during the early 1980's. If this person was stationed there at the time of his desertion, I'd venture to guess that he would be considered to be a deserter under fire. If so then yea he needs to spend the next few decades at Club Fed working on a chain gang!

It just seems to me that there is a significant difference between some dumb 18 year old kid who goes AWOL for 45 days and a guy who deserts his country and his duty for 28 years. Let the Eurozone have him.

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Even older, even crankier....

1978 amnesty-read all about it-he could have returned then if he was a "VN vet."

Listen to COL Jagdog.

Who was Mr. Hemler talking to while in Sweden, and just what did he tell them about what he was doing on the job?

rayb

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"cumplo pero no obedezco"

Put him in Prison.

Well, any damage that was done is done and probably 20 years out of date. When he went AWOL his superiors should have made a damage assessment and got the relevant agencies involved. If they did not, why? Was the whole deal swept under the carpet by somebody to save their career or to avoid embarrassment of the US? Was the guy a plant from minute one and this brouhaha is to keep his cover good? Choose your theory and have at it, because if you think you will ever hear the entire truth you need to put the top back on the Hoppes bottle.

Doesn't matter if it was 100 years ago. And we were in the midst of the Cold War then too.

You turn your back on your country and you can never be forgiven.

Desertion is a cowardly act and a slap in the face to men and women in uniform and Americans in general.

Revoke his citizenship and give it to one of the 12 million illegal aliens who deserted their country and snuck into ours.

A few years ago a soldier who had deserte to North Korea came back, I beleive he left in the early 60's while stationed on the DMZ. He was given a courtmartial and a DD I beleive. Not sure if he got any jail time, when I first arrived in Korea they were still talking about PFC Joseph White who had deserted the year before, if he had any second thoughts no one will ever know according to the North koreans he drowned in a rice paddy.

I was in Korea in 84 and not much was going on for us, I knew men who went AWOL and came back and we had a few take off I always thought they should do some hard time at Leavenworth.

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Stan

Probably a mute question since he will probably never leave Sweden. If he did come home, the answer is simple, prosecute him. He still owes the military some service time, in addition to what ever sentence he gets.

I have a friend that lost his mind serving on Boomers (he actually was mildly claustrophobic before he served) and doing drugs. He did the extended AWOL thing, returned to face the music and I think was going to get some sort of early discharge (medical?) after the demotion and what-not, but then the big terrorist attack hit and he ended up finishing out his time on the surface.

The wanna-be Swede needs to face the music if he wants back or gets sent back.