Hi there,

I am french, ex french army, proud owner of SW M27-2 5“ (1975), SW M27-2 6,5" (1986), SW MP15 sport2 and soon SW 659.

I 've been asked by some of you to explain how we can get firearms in France. Here is the real fight.

1- go to range club and get licence for sport shooting, your id will be enter to the firearms prohibition register. If you failed (you did something wrong in the past??) evertying stop here, no more chance for you, never ever.
2- Go to your doctor and ask a sport Certificat (he can refuse if he detect something wrong in your capacity to hold a gun, physically or mentally). If you dont get it everything stop here for you definitely.
3- spend at least 2 month at the 11 yards range with Pellet pistol,
4- Go to see a doctor for a psychiatric analysis & comportemental (the last one is clearly to detect how is dramatic or not you religious conviction...) and ask him to sign your licence, If you dont get it everything stop here for you definitely. not more chance
5- Back at the range you are officially member of the French sport shooting federation.
6- you must do 13 shooting session (only 1 per day) with your shooting director (if he consider your score is not good enough, then come back to step 5.)
7- If the members of the club think your attitude is not compatible with shooting (weird religious conviction -> what ever your religion his) or your behaviors with security rules is not compatible with the rules everything stop here for you definitely. no more chance and you are banned from the range and licence is cancel for ever.
8- You must do a test control made of 20 questions regarding security and behavior. If you failed, come back to step 6.
9- You ask for the "FAVORABLE Form" and fill it. You mention the caliber you want to buy for 12 calibers maximum (this can be change later at the gunsmith) and it will be sent to the federation with secret personal notes that your range director wrote about you.
10 - After 2 weeks, you'll get the answer. If ok got to step 11, If you are not approved everything stop here for you definitely.
11- The city house firearms department will investigate your files (which has to includes invoices for a safe for the guns and a safe for the ammunitions, including triggers guard lock invoices for every firearms), they will also investigate your past, bank details, taxe details, if everything is ok go to step 12, If you dont get the approval everything stop for you definitely. Only one single small doubt from the government guns department and you are out ! no more chance (this takes 2 months)
12- Your files has been transferred to police department: At this time things are getting serious. You went through the terrorist database, The police checks your criminal record, your acts of violence, made to the public order, in addition a neighborhood survey is made on you, sometimes even your bosses are called to give their impressions on you (the acquisition of weapons is never mentioned), I myself have seen police officers searching my garbage ... A friend of mine has to get an interview with police officers to justify his desire to get a firearms. IF you failed at this step, you are out definitely. This will take an other 2 months to get the answer.
13- Finally after approximately 13 months of the long period since you went to the range the first time you have your firearms owning detention form and you run to your local. Believe me or not, if the seller has just a single doubt on you, he keep your licence and you are out definitely . no guns no more chance.

14- finally YOU THINK you own your precious firearms... but you are wrong They still belongs to the Government and you can USE them for 5 years only. Then if you want to keep them, please make sure to renew every year your licence, please do your TEST shooting every 3 months, and please after 4 years and 5 month come back to step 9 to renew you ownership firearms government form.. IF NOT you have 3 months to sell back all of your guns to a gunshop, if you don't do it That's a 5 year sentence and a $100,000 fine.

15- AT ANY TIME police officers can come and visite your home and check how the firearms at stocked. If they are not in the safe with the guard trigger lock.. guess what? YOU ARE OUT for ever. If the firearms are not at the address your list in the government form, you are out for ever AND JAIL will wait for you..

Also, this official document in no way authorizes you to carry a weapon on yourself. You are only allowed to move with it between your home and the range, or between your home and your gunsmith. During your travels, your weapons must be secured and cannot be used immediately (raised, bolt removed when possible and of course trigger locks installed and ammunition cannot be transported in the same bag. Any transgression to these rules will void your possession of weapons.

I am very pleased that France applies such a restrictive rule for anyone wishing to buy a weapon. It avoids a lot of problems, it avoids mass murders, and keeps anyone with a discreet criminal background away from buying a weapon. Of course a criminal can still buy a weapon on the black market (AK47 since the eastern countries) but it remains very very difficult.

Basically I think that these different measures avoid selling a weapon to a person who seems normal and without a criminal past BUT who could turn out to be mentally, politically or even religiously disturbed and become a murderer. The system is probably not perfect, but to date, I have never heard on the street or in the news of anyone using their personal weapons to kill people or to commit criminal acts.

Moreover, during your period of gun possession, a single second category offence while driving a car (alcohol, dangerous driving) or a notification on your record for delinquency, violence, etc... automatically removes your right to possess a weapon. Believe me, the 250 000 sport shooters in France are the best citizens of France. They will never do anything that could put them out of their passion.

I hope I have been able to put some light on our system.

Denis.

Welcome from coastal North Carolina.

I'm sure the politicians in Washington D.C. can make a bigger mess of the French gun process so I would not be inviting their input.

Bonjour !

Those are some nice Smiths you have there ! Congratulations !


I have a few questions about the process. If you are on the FINIADA list, is there a method by which to protest or have one’s name removed?

Is it true you need to belong to the club for at least 6 months before you can proceed with the process?

Thanks, and welcome !

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- Post No Bills -

thanks for sharing... and thanks for being the kind of person willing to go thru all of the requirements to share in our common joy of collecting and shooting sports...

Hi from North Dakota

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John

Thanks for the insight. That is quite the process you folks have to go through.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Hi,

Indeed it is imperative to have 6 months of membership in the club to request the form of favorable opinion. I imagine that this is the period necessary for the administrators and shooting directors to be able to make the evaluations on you.

Also, the first database in which you are compared is called FINIADIA: National File of Persons Prohibited from Acquiring and Possessing Weapons.
By the way, on the license (it looks like a bank card) there is a QR code on it. When you are controlled by the police, or when you go to buy a weapon, with a simple smart phone, people will film this QR code which points them directly to your FINIADIA profile (which is updated in real time), and allows you to see live if you are authorized or not. VERY SMART!

Denis.

Here in the Netherlands (Europe ) almost the same rules
some things are different
We can start with .22 from our gun club ,at least 18 times a year to the range with registration

But the crime investment (every year ) is the same

Drunk driving is bye bye gun license and gun,s

"I am very pleased that France applies such a restrictive rule for anyone wishing to buy a weapon." from the OP.
---------------------

Give up Freedom for Security.

Tough concept to sell in the states to shooters.

The Patriot Act didn't work out so well for us. Lost Freedom and didn't get better security.

There is a much larger difference beyond simply language and geography. I am NOT a subject where I live. I am NOT guilty until “rigorously proven potentially innocent.”

What I have read in this thread disgusts me. It isn’t simply the way you are treated, it’s your willingness and approval of such treatment and the laughable idea that criminal behavior is controllable by obscene government over reach in to the lives of good people.

Ptooey.

And for the record, I fully understand that Americans are globally disliked for attitudes such as mine. So be it. I know that I’m a good person and a quality human being, that’s enough for me. If my typical “pompous American attitude” is revolting to the subjects in foreign lands, I’m not losing sleep over it.

I wish you good luck. Sure sounds like luck is a huge factor in Europe.

Welcome from Va.

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Roger

What about "hunting" rifles? Shotguns. Does one have to go through all the regulations for those types of firearms or just handguns?. I thought that hunting was big in France?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Bonjour from South Carolina, and welcome to the forum. Being retired from the army of America's first ally, it's good to have you aboard, and thanks to your brothers for the help in Tongo Tongo.

You have it easy practicing your firearms hobby over there, compared to the residents of my birthplace in New York City. In the Big Apple, the handgun answer is just NO.

Hi,
Of course gangsters, criminals and terrorist will find guns in the black market. This is no possible to control, but our law makes that "normal and basic" people will NOT be able to buy weapons that easily and this to secure with a very strong control. This has to effect to limit violence. 99% of violence in France are done without guns. My remark was just explain that i am happy to know that IF my neighbor wants to buy a gun and administration, police and doctors thinks he doesn't match with gun owning, then i can sleep better. To compare, following Gunpolicy.org, in 2016 39000 people has been killed with firearms in the US while it is 1590 in France. Based on the proportion of the two populations, there are 5 times fewer gunshot deaths in France (accidents, homicides and suicides).
BUT I am not in position to judge anything in your country that i really really love, I lived there for a while, worked and fall in love many time and I fall in love with USA. Also I can not live without going to the range.

My thread was just to inform and explain how it is abroad. NOT to compare which system is better. Nothing else. For sure, we have some problems to solve in France, And i will support our politics what ever left or right wings if they can solve those problems. It is just a political question that no one Yet has the courage to face. Abraham Lincoln said "The ballot is stronger than the bullet" and i believe this.

I hope i didn't hurt you, don't forget i come in peace in this forum and i am a huge FAN of S&W.

Hi,

Forst i forgot to mention that the firearms for sport shooting cannot be automatic. Only Semi auto. I have a MP15 sport2, and it is semi auto. Full auto is reserved to Army and police forces.

Regulation is a bit more flexible for hunting rifles, but rifles only, and they can't be semi auto. It's a different category. you can load one or two rounds only.

You are right, Hunting is huge in France, 2 millions active hunters, so it is about 7 millions rifles in circulation in France. Last year, there have been 12 death: 5 accidents, 3 suicides, 4 homicides.

denis.

Thanks
Welcome from Tampa.

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NRA Bene Life, SWCA 2372

For sure my friends think that i am crazy for owning firearms, but after a few evening of education and showing what is really sport shooting, they became more friendly with this idea, even they didn't want to see them. The bad thing since terrorism in France, we are not allowed anymore to bring guest at the range (you need a valid licence), so it is a bit more complicated to explain something you can't show.

About self defense, sadly, French law is weird. The law will consider that I defended myself with a disproportionate response, and if the attacker dies I will be prosecuted for murder.

If it is proven that I deliberately prepared my attack, for example, I hear noise, I get up, I open my safe, take my guns then load it, I wait by the door, then I shoot, then it will be considered first degree premeditated murder. Because I would intentionally plan my attack. If, however, I can prove that in the middle of the night, I was cleaning my gun, that once face to face with the intruder in the action I pick up my gun and shoot him, then it's okay. But you'll have to prove that.

Worse still, if my attacker is armed with a gun and is shot in the back, it will show that he was defenceless at the time and that my response to the attack is not gradual. In short, I would be the one to be prosecuted for murder. I think that in this case, French law is very badly done. I imagine that French law considers that a simple thief comes to steal and not to kill. On the other hand, this kind of burglary in France is very rare, and when it happens, it is very rare that he is armed. Having said that, what would happen if all of a sudden, gun owners had the right to shoot at the slightest suspicious noise...I wouldn't want to take the place of a father who thinks he shot a burglar in the middle of the night and realizes that he shot his son...

I happy to hear you know things about wine. I myself drinking while i am writing at the moment, a nice bourbon Noa's Mill that i bought in DC at Jack Rose, in addition of a marvelous cuban cigar Cohiba Behike 56.

Friday morning i'm gonna get my S&W 659, can't wait.

Denis.

Hi from Australia.

Sounds like French Gun Laws and the process to gaining access to firearms is a lot like Australia (albeit some of our states are slightly modified, the process and bureaucracy are about the same).

Welcome.........

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Life is short,live it fully.

Welcome to http://smith-wessonforum.com/ from an Old Soldier in Olympia, WA; in the Great Pacific Northwest!

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

Welcome to the forum from Tennessee.

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Just a shooter

Very informative.
Welcome from the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Welcome to the Forum. I was in France back in 2001 and saw it changing and not for the better. Sounds like it really went down the rabbit hole since then.

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Keep on Chooglin'

Welcome to the Smith & Wesson Forum from Central Florida!

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

That's what we are trying to avoid HERE!. Thanks for the info.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Welcome aboard on the Zoo express.

You could contact member danalex regarding gun stuff in France. He is
in Strasbourg and very knowledgeable in gun rules in France.

-deputydon - in Kansas USA

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SWCA LM#2190 SWHF#414

Thank you for your insight, and welcome form Mississippi.

Welcome aboard.



I am blessed to have been born in America.

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Sure you did

Welcome from Pennsylvania!

Violence committed without guns is still violence, my friend. What is missing then, is self defense .

While maybe the laws helped stop mass shootings maybe if someone had a gun they could have stopped the guy that killed 86 and injured 458 people in 2016 with a truck.

2016 Nice truck attack - Wikipedia

Do these rules only apply to handguns?
Are there less restrictive rules for longarms?
And welcome to the forum.

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and what his trumpet saith

Hello StarmanFR and I'll ad my welcome from Central Texas!

An entertaining and informative post and it is appreciated very much. I was actually gratified to learn that you can, indeed, own handguns, and other firearms. The process is laborious but happily possible.

Obviously things are much different here but that is to be expected considering national sovereignty is at play. I had a Dutch friend who often visited me in Texas and he looked forward to nothing quite so much as shooting handguns at the ranch. It was something he simply found too difficult to indulge in at home. Glad you have a way.

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Ordnung muss sein
SWHF #789

Wow! That would make me take up another hobby.
Hi from Salome, AZ.

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Paul
Salome, AZ

Sure glad I live in the good old USA.

"I am very pleased that France applies such a restrictive rule for anyone wishing to buy a weapon. It avoids a lot of problems, it avoids mass murders, and keeps anyone with a discreet criminal background away from buying a weapon. Of course a criminal can still buy a weapon on the black market (AK47 since the eastern countries) but it remains very very difficult.

Basically I think that these different measures avoid selling a weapon to a person who seems normal and without a criminal past BUT who could turn out to be mentally, politically or even religiously disturbed and become a murderer. The system is probably not perfect, but to date, I have never heard on the street or in the news of anyone using their personal weapons to kill people or to commit criminal acts."

Stay in France, we don't need that kind of thought here. I'm glad you like your Gov't controlling what we consider a God given right. Reference our Constitution.

So a nephew has gone to France for a year to teach, and has experienced French bureaucracy. For example, can't rent an apartment without a bank account (payment system for everything is automatic withdrawal) and can't get a bank account without a permanent address. There's a way out of the loop if somebody is willing to ignore/bend the laws.

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To cannon, all men are equal

Through the tunnel under the stump...

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213th FBINA

This is someone who has fully embraced the anti gun cool aid. He is also a resident where the National Anthem is a call for the citizens to take up arms and defend their nation by making blood run like a river. It is also a nation where the citizens basically beheaded their government during the French Revolution. I haven't read their Constitution but I fully expect that within that Constitution there is a Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Note this particular right was first expressed in 1215 AD in the Magna Carta, a document that has provided a Foundation for many nation's Constitutions.

Just to further your education in things in the USA, Gunpolicy.org is a far left wing organization bent on eradicating private ownership of firearms in the US. Any information from that source is highly suspect.

In fact, that figure you quoted includes suicides, which were a massive component of that figure (they could have, and obviously do, use other methods), accidental deaths, homicides, justifiable homicides and probably a few extras to round up the numbers.

Back in the late 1970's I was doing a study on homicide and ran across a figure I can't recall from another source with a similar intention. When I added up all the officially known deaths in the various categories, I still came up short of their claims by 5 figures.

And, as you point out, criminals and wannabe revolutionaries/terrorists will find their armament regardless.

I’m glad I don’t have to put up with those kind of BS restrictions. I bought a pistol at Cabelas. It took me all of 10 minutes with my CHL.

Gentlemen, 16 month old post. Opinions stated and we're done here.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220