I am posting this here rather than in the Ammo section as I believe there are folks who know ballistics better here.

I am just wondering why Hornady chose the 110gr bullet for the 38 special round?? For the .380 they have a regular 90gr and the 9mm a 115 gr but also wonder why not a 124gr?

Just for the increase in velocity????

Hornady

I think SuperVel did the same thing for years ago. I am sure it is for velocity.

Velocity.Super Vel was the first to offer a factory load for it.

Critical Defense™ 380 Auto 90 gr. 9 mm 115 gr. 38 SPL 38 SPL +P
Muzzle Velocity 1000 fps 1135 fps 1010 fps 1090 fps
Muzzle Energy 200 ft. lb. 329 ft. lb. 249 ft. lb. 290 ft. lb.

Whether you agree with their choice or not, it is evident that their .38+P is pretty close to the 9mm, which many people have stated they would like to have in a revolver. I haven't tried it, but the plastic tip inside the hollowpoint is as interesting idea.

I was also thinking perhaps less recoil?

I have tried the .380 out of a Ruger LCP and shot through 2 milk jugs filled with water and ended in the 3rd jug. It expanded as advertised and I have the slug right here on my desk. Do not know how realistic 1 gal milk jugs are but.....?

IMO the only way to achieve the velocity the buyers are looking for and still keep the pressures below the +P rating is to lighten the bullet. I'm not agreeing all that velocity is necessary but the casual shooter who is reading opinions telling them "X" fps is necessary or "Y" caliber is a minimum are going to look for that in what they buy. I like the .38 Special for SD but I personally prefer a heavier bullet.

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SWCA #3437

I am trying to pull from memory here so the facts may be a little cloudy.

Years ago the FBI wanted something that would move super fast too. They chose a 110gr bullet for the 357Mag. If I remember correctly they had some serious trouble when auto glass went to the shatter proof type. It seems that those hot light projectiles would simply bounce off or splatter when that type of object was encountered. They went back to heavier bullets, again, if I remember what I read correctly.

I'm with Archangel on this one too. Why chose a 38spl that has 290ft/lbs of energy when you can have one that has almost twice that? 158gr LSWC going 1100fps would be much better for PD in my opinion.

Can you get a 158gr to 1100 fps out of a 1-7/8" (2") snubbie barrel??

I'm sorry, no, it was a 3" barrel!

I'm guessing though, 1000fps out of my 1 7/8" barrel!

Sure, in 38spl it's THE LOAD In 357mag many production loads will do it. For example Remington R357M2 (158 gr. SJHP) clocks 1110 fps in 2-1/8" S&W 640.

Here is some information for those who are interested in performance of superlight bullets. In 1990's Russian military developed 2 armour piercing rounds for their new 9x19 pistol and submachine gun. They feature 82 gr. and 65 gr. bullets with steel core penetrators clocking at 1500 and 2000 fps respectively (link). The rounds are rated +P+, peak pressure is 40 Kpsi.



These rounds were designed specifically to improve performance of 9x19 guns against common body armour. Currently they are issued to some of their special forces units.

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Gotta get me some of those!
On your link those underwater "spear" type bullets are very neat. How could they have used them if Glocks were not even made then?

Isn't Cor Bon one manufacture that simply loads lighter bullets to get increased velocity? Some of their loads have a necked down appearance.

They also have a 38 spl +p in 110 gr jhp.

I guess for commercial ammo, Buffalo Bore has a product essentially "The Load" in 38 special.

Regarding the Buffalo Bore 38 Sp. +P cartridge: I fired 2 of those in my Ruger LCR snubby about 2 weeks ago. As I type this, my trigger finger middle knuckle is still sore. I think the trigger guard got it on recoil. Normal 38 Sp and the Hornady CD +P loads are easily handled in that LCR. My son carries a Model 60. I imagine he will want to try the Buffalo Bore too. We'll see what happens. My normal carry gun was a no dash flat latch model 36. I don't think I want to expose it to the Buffalo Bore, but believe it could handle the Hornady +P with ease. Anyone else have experience with Buffalo Bore +P out of 38 snubbies?

You gents obviously didn't read the latest issue on the American Rifleman where they tested 2 different types of ammo and interviewed the developers.

Hornaday Critical Defense is designed to limit penetration (no more than 12") with the expected target being someone squarely facing the defender and with no limbs of the body or other barrier in the way. Reducing bullet weight (lower sectional density) and increasing the velocity is an excellent way to reduce penetration in the .38 Special-or any other cartridge. This is especially true if the intent is sucess at normal .38 pressures in snubbies.

Since the 9mm version uses one of the standard bullet weights at nominally normal velocities, I expect they did some extra design work on that bullet.

While I personally don't believe that a minimum of 12 inches of penetration is a must, I'm uncomfortable with something that says it's specifically designed not to exceed 12 inches. I'd like to see tests indicating that it will still develop adequate penetration after passing through the muscles of an upraised arm.

Yes, I flipped through that article in American Rifleman. The second ammo tested was a Winchester premium ammo, I don't remember the type. The curious thing is the Winchester philosophy is the total opposite of Hornaday. Winchester designed their bullet to get the maximum penetration per the FBI guidelines for glass, clothing etc. Hornaday feels that too much penetration could possibly be a legal liability in a SD shooting,

I kinda look at it this way. At a range of say 5 feet or less, I do not think it really matters if it's 110, 115, 124 or 158 gr bullet.
I have had bruised ribs before and know how bad that hurts.
A .380 auto will go through 3/4" exterior plywood at 10 feet (my test) So I think that would tend to "deter" someone.
Maybe not knock them down for the count but enough to let me run away.
Of course I could be wrong.

Dogfather- Winchester is going for the LE market and Hornaday is going for the civilian self defense market-especially those looking for defense in the home.

The FBI states quite clearly that persons using their ammunition test protocols need to consider their specific needs before deciding which portions of their ammo tests are relevant and select ammunition accordingly.

The only real reason to bother with bonded core bullets is their improved integrity in penetraing laminated glass (windshields). If you don't expect to shoot someone in a car in your living room, why pay for the capabililty?

Those are words of wisdom right there...

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SWCA #3437

You make a good point WR Moore, thanks for the clarification. I guess I should go back to the library and read that article a little closer!