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Old 09-28-2009, 02:01 PM
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Swissman Swissman is offline
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Default .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!

I bought a .30 Luger Swiss-made 1929 Army-Parabellum some years ago. RUAG makes the Swiss-army-ammo with a steelcoatet bullet and with a load that is at the upper speed-level.
But the Swiss-army got no new .30 Luger-weapons since the 1950ties. So it will come the day, when RUAG anounces the end of the .30 Luger production. This ammo is absolutely great
and I believe that the 1949 .30 Luger SIG 210 is much more accurate than the 1949 9 mm SIG 210.
So it was finally time to check some plan "B". I tried all other brands that I can get and it was absolutely dissapointing. No other round can get nearly even with the RUAG-ammo. So I
bought in the USA a Lee 3-die-set and started my first try. The standard bullet is .309 - .311 with a weight of ca. 93 grains. But i got only the plinking-bullets for my .30 Carbine-M1
on the shelf. I bought them cheap, because they got a higer than normal weight; 115 grains.

I checked out my Accurate-Arms-reloading-book and after some comparing and calculating, I decided to make a very, very soft load. (Using the following data is at your own risk)

Fiocchi cases (reloding Swiss-military-brass is not legal here)
CCI 500 primer
3.1 grains of Accurate #2 powder
115 Grain FMJ (Flat point) .308 bullet (M1-Carbine-bullet)
COL is 1.169"

The COL is at the upper end and the Parabellum got first some feeding-problems. After I cleaned the gun and used another oil, the feedingproblem was (with very few exceptions) gone.
But the ammo is to soft anyway. The pressure is so low, that the slide does not stay open after the last shot. So I can press the bullet a bit deeper into the case and add 0.2 grains
of Accurate #2 and the load will be perfect basis for further experiments with my trusty 1929 Parabellum.

The result at 50 meters, (55 yards) is very good, but comes not to the RUAG-level. I don't have any speed-data, but I will post them here, when I got the chance to use my buddy's Speed-o-meter.







Swissman

Last edited by Swissman; 09-28-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:16 PM
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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That is some fine shooting!. I always admired the Luger and have wanted one since I was a kid watching all the war shows on TV. Just the neatest looking gun.
There are so many things to look for on buying one I would not know where to start.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Dan Cash Dan Cash is offline
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What a group! and that Luger is not the easiest gun to shoot well. I have a 96 Mauser in 7.62 that demonstrates a tendency toward accuracy when loaded with 100 grain Speer plinkers.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:20 PM
RWJ RWJ is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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Default Much potential

I have a Colt Commander Factory .30 Luger barrel which I found back on that Auction site that used to sell gun parts, and I ordered a match bushing from Brownell's for the thin Cmdr. barrel (I don't think they offer it any more). I had a gunsmith install and fit it for me, and man, is that thing a tack driver! Sub 1" groups @ 50' with plain old Winchester 93 grain ball. I was amazed at the accuracy. I heard later that the Army AMU was supposed to be investigating using a .30 (maybe .32 ACP?) for centerfire, but don't know what ever became of that concept.

I'm sold on it's potential; if only I could find a .30 Luger barrel for a full sized Colt, I'd buy one. Smith should offer it for their 952 for overseas use!
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:46 PM
Raider Raider is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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The 7.65 Luger is very accurate. I have a .30 cal Commercial with 3-7/8" barrel that shoots similar groups to yours; its actually more accurate than many of the 9mm's. For those of you who are considering a very nice.30 Luger with good bright bore and blueing, the Commercial model made by DWM in the 1920's can be bought for around $800. A lot of doggy shooter grade 9mm's go in the same price range.

Charlie
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:31 PM
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Andy Griffith Andy Griffith is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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Swissman, I agree that the .308 Speer "plinker" bullet might be one you should at least try in that cartridge.

I have a set of RCBS dies for that caliber, and have never had a gun in .30 Luger.

The .30 caliber handgun cartridges do intrigue me, along with the .30 Luger, there is the .30 Mauser, and their hotter cousin the 7.62 Tok. Of course, we can't forget their American cousins the Ruger Blackhawk and the AMT Automag both in .30 U.S. Carbine.

I think the last American pistol made in .30 Luger was the Ruger P89- anyone want to substantiate or refute this, as I'm pulling this out of the hat from memory.?!?

Great shooting Swissman!!!

Also, if Swiss military brass is illegal to reload in Switzerland, why not sell it to the Americans for a profit? After all, we have a tremendous self-induced shortage here.

I'll cut you in on the deal for a finder's fee. How many container loads of brass do the Swiss have?
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Last edited by Andy Griffith; 09-28-2009 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:38 AM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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SwissMan!
I love the way your thinking goes on this! .30 Luger, long time sentimental favorite!
(BTW: I also love the fact that you've given someone with the last name Polanski something else to think about, other than the beautiful Alpine views that is!) Yet another reason I like the Swiss!
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:16 PM
Jellybean Jellybean is offline
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Nice shooting, I've always wanted to try a .30 Luger but haven't found a pistol I wanted, or could afford.

I do have an old beater Mauser C96 in .30 Mauser though. The barrel is in really bad shape and factory ammo would keyhole with every shot. I then loaded some .312 dia lead bullets and it was a tack driver.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:37 PM
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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Do the Swiss military .30 Luger cartridge cases use Boxer primers or Berdan primers?

Back in the early 80s I had the chance of buying a Colt Commander in .30 Luger. I passed on it. The sound you hear is me kicking myself. There was a TV series on Fox a couple years ago, Vanished, where the murder weapon was a Colt Commander in .30 Luger.

The Beretta Model 98 in .30 Luger is available in Europe, not the US. I sure would like to see it here.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:59 PM
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Thanks for all the friendly and funny comments.

I'm now right back from the 25-meter indoorrange. The new and improved selfmade .30 Luger are great stuff. I changed the powderweight and the COL: (using of this data is at your own risk)

Fiocchi cases (reloding Swiss-military-brass is not legal here)
CCI 500 primer
3.3 grains of Accurate #2 powder
115 Grain FMJ (Flat point) .308 bullet (M1-Carbine-bullet)
COL is 1.164"

All ejecting and feedingproblems are gone. The gun kicks less than with the RUAG-army-ammo, but I got the same accuracy like with the RUAG.
Only the point of aim is 3" lower @ 25 meter than with RUAG.
I can't wait to check out my new reloads @ 50 meter.

Swissman
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag312 View Post
Do the Swiss military .30 Luger cartridge cases use Boxer primers or Berdan primers?

The sound you hear is me kicking myself.
jag312, don't be to hard to yourself!

The military-brass seems to have boxer-primers.

Swissman
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:31 PM
Hovnnes Hovnnes is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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In the 1930s my mother was a young farm girl. Her father had passed away and her brother gave her a 1923 Commercial Model .30 Luger for protection after he left the farm for the glamor of being a Hollywood movie stunt man. She slept with it under her pillow until she married my dad just before WW2. I remember it was very accurate with Winchester Super X. Remington wouldn't even cycle the action. I still have 200 rds of Remington and if I ever find who has the Luger and can get it back I'll certainly try handloading your recipe(I've got some .30 dies) I'm thinking a Hornady's cam lock bullet puller might be the best tool for the job of salvaging the Remington brass and bullets.
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:43 AM
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CptCurl CptCurl is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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Hello Swissman,

Greetings from Virginia! I just found this thread, and it raises an interest for me.

I have some experience loading for the 7.65 Parabellum, but admittedly not a lot. My previous effort was loading cartridges for use in a Model 1920 DWM Luger. As you certainly know, the Luger is not the easiest pistol to shoot, with its spongy trigger and tiny sights. Reloading for the Luger is also discouraged by its tendency to launch the ejected cartridges into lunar orbit. (Elon Musk could learn a few tricks here!) So recovery of fired brass is problematic at my outdoor range. To make a long story short, some years ago I set the 7.65 aside and returned to my many 9mm pistols.

But that's not the end of the story, as you probably suspect!!!

Recently I bought a Sig P210 chambered in 7.65mm. I already have a P210 in 9mm. The 7.65 is incoming, but not yet received. I do plan to develop loads for this pistol once I get it in hand.

My DWM 1920 Luger was sold to a friend, but I still have a Model 1923 DWM Luger in 7.65mm, so I expect to pull it out of the gun safe and shoot it alongside the Sig.

I am wondering if you, or anybody else, would like to discuss successes and failures in loading for this most interesting round. I really don't intend to use the .30 carbine bullet and don't have any of those on hand. I want to use a more appropriate size and weight.

I know everyone likes pictures. When I get my "new to me" Sig I will do some glamour shots of it and the M1923 DWM.

Cheers,
Curl
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:52 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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.30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!! .30 Luger, a round with a great accuracy-potential!!  
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This is an 8 1/2 year old thread. If you want Swissman's attention, you should PM him. He doesn't post much anymore.

I've not played with the 30 Lugar at all but did a lot of work with the 30 Mauser. I'M not sure what quality brass is available anymore, but correct FMJ Bullets are at Midway and others. I also used a 90 gr cast RN in 32 ACP and 30 Mauser, so cheap plinkers can be made too.

I would think that 500 rounds of Fiocchi ammo would give a lifetime supply of good brass. I did notice several years ago that Federal used Norma brass, and loaded many old Military rounds including 30 Lugar and 30 Mauser. That may be a source of good brass (it doesn't get much better than Norma) Good luck with you 210!

Ivan
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952, beretta, carbine, cartridge, colt, commander, commercial, gunsmith, hornady, lock, military, rcbs, remington, ruger, sig arms, winchester

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