Do these primers look like they should have gone bang?//Response from Hornady added

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Rule3

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This is also posted in the ammo section but wanted to get some opinions from folks that know primers.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/1...ced-problems-hornady-cd-ammo.html#post1122872

I was testing some Hornady Critical Defense 9mm 115gr FTX

Out of box of 25 I had at least 5 that did not go off. I was using my Kahr PM9 which eats and fires anything. I also shot 2 magazines of Remington Golden Sabers, Speer Gold Dots and my own handloads with Wolf primers, with zero malfunctions.

I called Hornady and they are sending a UPS call take to pick up.

These look like they are struck hard enough to me??

DSC01545Small.jpg
 
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It appears to me that they should have gone BANG!
It'll be interesting to see IF you get follow-up from Hornady - I should think you should - they're big but not like WW or Rem.
 
It could be because it is off center. It also looks as though the firing pin might be a tad sharp and tried to pierce the primer instead of smashing it. I've always bee told that that a primer may fail to go off if struck off center, simply because the high part of the anvil is in the center, and if the anvil in the primer isn't struck, the mix won't go off.

The strikes on these cartridges completely miss the center.
 
Andy Griffith said:
It could be because it is off center. It also looks as though the firing pin might be a tad sharp and tried to pierce the primer instead of smashing it. I've always bee told that that a primer may fail to go off if struck off center, simply because the high part of the anvil is in the center, and if the anvil in the primer isn't struck, the mix won't go off.

The strikes on these cartridges completely miss the center.
Click to expand...

I agree.Many guns fail to hit the center "perfectly" and still do just fine.It appears as though the pin may be hitting a little too far off.The high part of the anvil is in the center.If the firing pin is sharp,that's something else that needs to be addressed.Has this same gun done well with other ammo?
 
Happened to me too!

OCD1 said:
This is also posted in the ammo section but wanted to get some opinions from folks that know primers.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/1...ced-problems-hornady-cd-ammo.html#post1122872

I was testing some Hornady Critical Defense 9mm 115gr FTX

Out of box of 25 I had at least 5 that did not go off. I was using my Kahr PM9 which eats and fires anything. I also shot 2 magazines of Remington Golden Sabers, Speer Gold Dots and my own handloads with Wolf primers, with zero malfunctions.

I called Hornady and they are sending a UPS call take to pick up.

These look like they are struck hard enough to me??

DSC01545Small.jpg
Click to expand...


First box I tried in my "trusty" S & W airweight Model 37 (nickel... it's a beauty!). Had a no-fire on the second round... primer was dented pretty good. I think we should ALL contact Hornaday and let them know we won't be buying their ammo any more and why. If this had been a gun fight... I might be dead!!!
 
I have had the same problem in one revolver I have. It is a Beretta Laramie in 38spl.

Mine rolls too far to the right (from the rear) and Magtech primers will not ignite. Wolf will. What I did was put the headstamp up, so when the round was in "battery" so to speak, I could tell which way I was out of alignment.

It was a fault with the firearm, not the ammunition. Run them through another firearm and see what they do.
 
As I mentioned I have never had a failure to fire with this gun. Thus was my first box of Hornady CD 9mm and had this. Leads me to believe it's the ammo not the gun. All the ones that fired have the indent in the same place

I keep a log book on every new gun I buy for SD and record all ammo, number of rounds and any failures. I usually am looking for gun failures such as fail to feed, fail to eject and other jamming. I just pulled out my records. Without listing every date (start 9/2007), I have around 600-700 rds through this gun with PMC, WWB, Fiochi, Magtec, Corbon,Blazer Brass, Rem, Speer Win Ranger, Fed Hydo, Fed HSt and handloads. NEVER a failed primer.
 
Man, it looks like the whole face of the primer is collapsed into that firing pin strike.


I think they should've gone off. It might be a just a bad combination, but is'nt that why we test for reliability? Maybe you'll get some free ammo anyway.
 
Definately looks like they should have gone bang. I will remember to avoid Hornady loaded ammo. It doesn't look like your firing pin is unnecessarily pointed to me, maybe narrower than most. I'd bet it was a
defective batch of primers.
 
I have fired several boxes of CD rounds through my Rohrbaugh R9S and I've never had an issue. The strikes from my pistol are lighter than that and it fires every time.
The Rohrbaugh is sensitive to hard primers. I've had FTFire issues with Remington "Green Box" and Winchester "White Box" but never with the Hornady ammo.

Those strikes look good to me and should have fired.

I'm curious as to Hornady's explanation for your issue (especially since it goes in my carry gun). Thanks for posting and please let us know how it all pans out.

Regards,
Arkdweller
 
I have absolutley no experience with Kahr firearms, and to keep from asking a really stupid question could you post a picture of the primers from some of the rounds that did go bang?
 
The dents are plenty deep, and not nearly far enough off center for that to matter. Bad primers, for sure. I recently commented to a friend that I've had more bad primers in factory ammo in the past year than I've seen in the last 40 years combined. I've been seeing overly hard primers failing to fire in guns that have ALWAYS hit hard enough, along with primers like yours, with deep enough dents that they should have fired, but didn't. Somewhere, QC has gone down the toilet. My problems of late have been with Fiocchi, WW white box, and Remington. No issues yet with Hornady or any other brand, but I've not bought any factory Hornady in over a year. This kind of problem sure shouldn't be cropping up in self-defense ammo.
 
Jellybean said:
I have absolutley no experience with Kahr firearms, and to keep from asking a really stupid question could you post a picture of the primers from some of the rounds that did go bang?
Click to expand...

Not a stupid question at all. First thing I checked. The fired ones look the same except for a small indent as explained in the manual at bottom of page 20.

http://www.kahr.com/DL/kahrmanual.pdf


Here is a pic also.

DSC01548Small.jpg
 
Thanks OCD1, what I'm wondering is if the firearm could have fired out of battery, and did you try to fire the rounds a second time?

I found some fired small primers in my loading room that had strikes in the same general location as yours. I pulled the anvils out of them and the indents were still over the anvil.
 
hard enough hit....just too far off center to me. punch em out and hit em hit a hammer and see if they go bang. that will prove if not being centered is the problem....................
 
Jellybean said:
Thanks OCD1, what I'm wondering is if the firearm could have fired out of battery, and did you try to fire the rounds a second time?

I found some fired small primers in my loading room that had strikes in the same general location as yours. I pulled the anvils out of them and the indents were still over the anvil.
Click to expand...


A few of them I did put back in the magazine and fired. They did go off then after a double strike. As the pistol is striker fired I can not just pull the trigger again (one and only thing that Taurus can do:))

I could put these 4 duds in any of my other 9mm or even the same gun and they will probably fire but then i would have none to send back to Hornady. I am 99.9999999% sure its the ammo based on my past documented record of every round I fired in the gun. When factory ammo was cheap and plenty, I would not hesitate to go back to the range and run through a few more boxes. But at $20+ for 25, not gonna happen. I'll load some plated bullets and some xtps and try them.
 
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