Any one reloading them?

I do regularly. In fact, I'd guess 98% of all of the .45 ACP loads that I have ever loaded (and that is an awfully large amount) have been +P loads. My regular load is 7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 cast SWC #68 bullet, using standard primers. It gives between 1,000-1075 FPS out of several of my .45's across my Oehler 35P. I got that load from the Taffin Tests published in Guns Magazine many years ago. I still have that article too.

That is one of my favorite 45 ACP loads as well.

Long time back I also loaded the Speer 200gr HP and the 225gr HP over that same powder charge.

I loaded the 185 Sierra over 8.5gr of Unique, and 9.2gr of 4756. WARNING, WARNING WARNING, these are HOT loads.

I was using a 24lb recoil spring.
Also you bushing takes a lot of punishment and I once broke the part of the bushing that keeps the recoil spring lug in the gun...

This was before the days of full length recoil spring guides.

I also like the Speer 200gr HP over 7.5gr of Unique, Fed standard primer. Gives me 1050-1075 fps out of a 5" 625. Pretty warm...

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Daniel.

Gun 4 Fun do you shoot those rounds out of a 1911? I have a Springfield Mil Spec with 5'' Barrel. Is there anything I need to up grade on the pistol before shooting +p 's?

what about shooting that same load in a polymer frame pistol?

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s&w 500 magnum, "sweeeet"!!!

I load a lot of +P and some Super equivalent for my 625s. I use mostly 230 and 255 gr. bullets.

In regard to polymer frames, I shot some +P handloads out of my Glock 21 using the stock barrel. I never had any problems. My Bar-Sto barrel will chamber and shoot 255 gr. RF and SWC cast bullets but I am reluctant to run them hot, especially once the various springs have been changed. I have come to the conclusion that a Glock 21 functions best when the factory springs are left alone as was originally engineered.

Dave Sinko

I do indeed! I bought a mil spec Springfield 1911-A1 before you could buy a cutomized gun over the counter. I put a LOT of money into it, and it is one sweet gun! I use a Wolffe 24 LB variable rate recoil spring and shok buffs. I know some don't like the shok buffs, but in shooting thousands upon thousands of +P loads in this gun and a few other auto's, I'm convinced they work. You just need to check them, and replace them before they get too chewed up and jam the gun. I have never had one jam from using them though. You will also want a stronger firing pin spring for steady use with +P loads. It helps eliminate any potential primer flow issues that may come up. If you buy the spring kit from Wolffe, it is part of the package.

NE450No2-
I have used the 8.5 grain load with the 185 Sierra too. It gave me 1100 FPS from my Springfield 1911, and 1050 from my first 4506. I haven't shot any of that particular load from my current 4506-1 though, so I don't know what it'll show. I have fired a lot of the 7.5 grain loads through this 4506-1 and it does just fine with them.

Another +P load I have used a bunch, is 6.5 grians of Unique under the Speer 250 swc, but it leads pretty badly. It works great with a good hardcast swc though, and gave 940 fps across the Oehler. That is alomst 1,000 fps with a 250 grain bullet from a 1911 with a 5" barrel. I call that pretty darn impressive. It'll kill blackbear, deer, hogs and similar game with relative ease, and if you ever have to go into the thick brush after hogs (especially a wounded one), that is a great gun/load to have in your hand!


BTW-
All of these loads work great in my 4506-1 as it came from the factory. It came with two different weight springs, and I keep the heavy one in the gun. That gun is so reliable with anything I have run through it, that it is almost rediculous.

Thanks , sounds really good!

Depending on bullet style & OAL, that is just kissing +P. I have, even run them trhough a poly framed XD, but really, no reason to not drop down to 7gr & be well off +P.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Actually it is smack dab into +P pressures. The loads listed have all been pressure tested at 23,000 PSI which is +P in the ACP round.

Why drop down, and shoot something that doesn't perform like I what I want it to. my accuracy is all that I can take advantage of at that level, and I have seen what it does on whitetail. I think I'll stick with it.

Besides, the OP didn't ask if anyone was almost loading +P, so I tried to help him with what I have learned.

I've lost interest in the 45 autos and have sold my last one.My comments will be based on past use.I used to compete a bit and have loaded them by the thousand's.

My standard load was 5.7 gr of Unique behind a 230 cast RN.This was roughly hardball equivalent However the load I carried when woods loafing was a hard cast 230 RN backed by 7.0 gr of Unique.This was max listed according to sources at the time.This gave about 950fps from the 5 inch government.I know of some using 7.5 and getting about 1000 which is abusive to the gun and frankly,I'd rather use a bigger gun.

As always....work up.

The standard recoil spring in the 1911 is 16 pounds and some will use a heavier spring however the heavier spring slams the slide forward harder.The choice is yours.

What OAL for the 250/ 255 gr loads out of the Sprgfld 1911's? The OAL recommended in 3 of the manuals I have will not feed reliably enough for me to use the 1911 as my "woods" gun but I would love the option (the 325 is punishing to shoot with those loads and the short barrel bleeds too much velocity in my experience. And I bought too many components to have any money left to buy a 625.)

I have been using the cast swc type available from most commercial casters. It has a bevel base and rather short noce compared to the true Keith designs. I taper crimp, and seat the bullet using the exact same setting as I do for the H&G #68 200 grain cast swc. I use my Dillon press and never even touch the seating stem. It seats the bullet with the case mouth exactly at the top of the crimp groove/back of the front driving band juncton, and functions flawlessly in both my Springfield 1911, and my 4506-1.

As a side note, I rarely follow seating recommendations in the manuals. I seat according to what my gun will function reliably with, both from a magazine fit, and chamber fit standpoint. It is
uasually darn close to what the manuals recommend, but I always check fit in MY guns.

Edited for clarity-

I am referring above, to using bullets that are heavier than normal, or that don't have loads listed in common manuals for a particluar bullet weight in the .45 ACP. If the overall length from crimp groove to nose is similar to an established load, I proceed as written above.

Do not simply pick a random seating depth and load full power. If you are new to reloading, then perhaps you would be better off learning first, and asking someone more experienced when attempting to load with bullets outside of the norm for a given cartridge.

This is something that will get a gun blown up by a rookie faster than an over charge and is dangerous, dangerous information.


DO NOT FOLLOW IT!


I understand the point and yes, those are issues that should be taken into consideration but more firearms, and yes 45ACP to 9mm semi autos especially have been blown up due to bullet setback issues, over a double charge any day.

Statements like this need qualification. Can you seat deeper than listed OAL? Sure! There is just more to it than that though and it needs to be said, not left for a newbie to hazard into. If you shorten up the OAL on any recipe, and remember it is a recipe with a bunch of ingredients (OAL being one) you need to reduce the charge weight of powder as well. You can not do one and leave the other undone, period.

In the Speer #5 there is an interesting section that folks should read about this subject. Remember, it was published long before the "wonder auto" era was even thought about!

It is on page 274 and 275 and roughly states that "seating depth into the cartridge case has more effect on pressure and velocity than does crimp or lack of crimp on the bullet."

Seems to me, it must be important then!

Skip,

I didn't recommend anyone else do it!!!! We are talking about the .45 ACP in an auto here, and using heavier than normal bullets.

Still, I should have been more clear so, I edited my post.

I made it perfectly clear that I do it that way, and it works out to almost always be the same as what the manuals recommend. It comes from 30 years of practice experience, with more different calibers than I can recall offhand. I don't start at the top, and I have room to adjust seating depth, up or down to get what I am looking for, for fit and reliable functioning in an auto.

If you are working at, or near the top of the pressure range, then yes, you might get into trouble if you are deep seating from an established load. If am working within a few thousandths of an inch one way or the other from what is published (and in a 1911 platform, that is about all the wiggle room there is for proper functioning), I have never been able to see any, let me repeat, any !! difference across my Oehler velocity wise.

That tells me, that I am still working within the proper pressure range to be safe.

When we start loading bullets that are outside of the norm for the .45 ACP, we have to use common sense and a little experimenting to arrive at a safe and workable load. That is what I do, and what I did for the load the poster asked about in the post you referrenced above.

Next time, maybe you should try and contact me via PM if you have a problem with a post I have made. I am not unreasonable by any measure, and I can take criticism when warranted, and if I offend someone, I go out of my way to try to make things right. I understand the concern for a new loader, but making your point at my expense, is a personal attack, and is against the forum rules, and should be followed by everyone, including you.

And I should have not even asked the question. I realized I overlooked an important detail- my load for the 325 was used with FLAT POINT not SWC!!!! That "slight" (read HUGE) difference in bullet profile "may"(read WILL) make a difference in feeding. DUR!

I know to reduce the charge anytime I change ANYTHING (I don't use any Win 296 ) and will just do that. And I realize that just because someone else has the same gun and ostensibly the same barrel, that doesn't mean the same OAL rounds will chamber.

So, I'll start over low (becasue I DID have a great AA#5 load with the 255s in the 325) and shorten up the round until I get what feeds, functions and shows no pressure problems.

Gun 4 Fun, I have read (I have been reading here since 2006 even though I recently joined) Skip react harshly before and thought at first it was a little rude (sorry Skip- hang with me here) but I can tell he is just trying to keep newbie idiots from injury. I can tell also you'd never purposefully post anything if you thought a less than reasonable person would do something stupid with it and I appreciate your answering my question!
All that said, just like when I read John Taffin and others discussing a heavy load, I know the proper precautions and will be safe. I am sure, though, there is the occassional idiot out there who would do something careless. I truly hope those idiots don't A: reload and B: show up here to get/ give advice!

Thanks all- sorry OP if this intrusion doesn't fit- I thought it was closely related enough....

BigNC,
Kind words. Thank you.

I know that I can sometimes get wrapped up in the conversations here with someone asking questions, and forget a disclaimer. That is still no excuse for complete rudeness by anyone. There are ways (not to mention requirements) to properly handle pointing out an ommision, without being a jackass or trying to belittle someone else to make yourself look good.

I try my very best to help others here, while trying not to make them feel small or insignificant. If I ever do that to anyone, I certainly hope they contact me and let me know. I will go out of my way to make things right with them.
It is simply how I wish to conduct my life.

I'm impressed, you have pressure testing equip? It will vary of course w/ the pistol used & the OAL. SPeer lists 7.3gr of Unique under a 200gr jacketed for 984fps as max. So yep, the 7.5gr under a LSWC could be into +P range, again depending on AOL. Which is why I stated depending on bullet style & OAL.

__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Are you NUTS?
Sonny

I agree completely. Reducing OAL is something that can get you in a lot of trouble. Pressure can build real fast when OAL is reduced. FWIW pressure increases do not necessarily translate into velocity increases, so a chronograph reading is only giving you part of the story.

Skip, may have been a bit plain spoken about this but I believe it was justified. Information posted is for the benefit of all who read the post; Members, nonmembers, advanced Handloaders and novices. We should take that into account when we post.

I know Skip personally and he would never intentionally insult anyone, but he is given to plain speaking. I for one appreciate that, and only wish more people were like him.

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too TOO young!!

I don't have pressure testing equipment. I do have access to data that was pressure tested. The load of 7.5 grains with the 200 gr #68 is running 23,000 PSI which is SAAMI spec for +P.

More like me! The world ain't ready for that, Brother Jessie!

In one of my favorite movies, McClintock, Dragoo stutters through telling Katherine that she used to be "nice people" and Maureen O'Hara looks to John Wayne to rebuke him.

John Wayne comes up with one of my favorite lines to "spank" (that comes about physically later in the movie)her verbally. He says: "You'll have to excuse him, he just doesn't know any better than to tell the truth!"

I guess I'm just as ignorant!

I know what you mean that's one of my faults too.

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too TOO young!!

the Southwest pistol league used 7.5gr early on but dropped to 7.2gr when pressure test showed load was to high

I just read your post. Yeah, it was a personal attack. Just like someone knocking your door down when they see the back of your house on fire is trespassing!

Most folks aren't going to complain as you lead them to safety, even if they do have to replace a door!

Rude? No, abrupt. Some folks just need to be "grabbed up and brought to a halt." There are times, not every time, when I'm just the person to do that. We all have personalities, some are abrasive, like mine.

I wasn't pointing out how stupid you were/are. That wasn't the point to the post at all. I was pointing out how ignorant the information was, plain and simple. Bad information. You corrected it, OK, good for you and thanks. You may have saved some newbie his eye or maybe his kid's nose, by clarifying yourself.

The whole point to my post was that we ALL, me included, need to make double sure of what we post when it comes to reloading issues.

While we may know exactly what we mean, and have done things for years and years without incident, some new loader will totally misunderstand what we post, seat a bullet too deep and KABOOM, all the while following our sage wisdom.

Rude? Yeah, just like that.

When you put up a post with huge letters like that, it isn't just to call attention to your point. You do it to make yourself look wise and someone else foolish, so yea it is a personal attack. We have been down this road before. Being abrasive gets one nowhere, and will even turn guys away from reading what you may have to say. That isn't doing anyone any favor either. It's easy to be abrupt sometimes. We all do it too. Still, you do it way too much here, and it isn't necessary or wanted by many. When you have a problem with a post, especially one you feel strongly about, have you ever thought about following the forum rules and contacting the poster off forum first? I have never seen you do it. There are rules here, and they do apply to us all, including you.

Your attitude is very condescending to many people here. You seem to feel that you are the only one with any real knowledge about reloading. You jumped on the post above without apparently reading all of the post, or the ones above it. I never once mentioned deep seating a bullet, yet you r comments would indicate that I did. We were talkng about using heavier than normal cast bullets for the .45 ACP, and none of my manuals that actually list heavier than normal bullets have a seating depth listed. They appear to presume that you will use the cannelure. When I mentioned not following the manuals recommended seating depth, I was referring to those given for normal bullets, while trying to use a heavier bullet, and I think most anyone who was following along knew it, and so did you.

I know you have your followers here, and that is fine with me. It doesn't give you the right to be rude to anyone that you disagree with. I have received several messages from guys who knew what I was driving at in my post, and agree with it. Maybe they would prefer not to get into a debate with anyone here on forum. I don't know.

There are right ways to go about things, and there are wrong ways. You are obviously too proud to admit it though, and I fully expect you to post another response about how you are always so right. Have at it. I'm done here. There is no percentage in arguing with someone who thinks they are always right.

Here is what I do know G4F. This is a public forum. People read this that are not members and at every level of experience in our wonderful hobby. For those folks, I have addressed issues that I felt were poorly explained at that level. You may feel you explained it quite well. OK, got it.

Personally, I didn't think it was explained well enough for that level of reloader or I would have said nothing.

As for being brusque, sorry that offended you. I, and I could be wrong, felt that it was so poorly stated as to be dangerously unsafe for "newbies". I felt the post was addressing a safety issue and I will by all means tenaciously address issues that are capable of being so misunderstood as to be physically dangerous to innocents.

If that tenacity is taken by some as being harsh or unkind, they misunderstand the intent.

As for "followers", I have never intended it to be so and doubt it is, especially seeing I am considered so harsh and abrasive by so many.

For those who are loading heavy charges of 2400 in the .45 ACP, Auto Rim and Super, are these compressed loads? Is 2400 slow enough that you don't run up the pressures to dangerous levels? And how about Power Pistol? How similar are these two powders?

Dave Sinko

Dave,
My loads with the H&G #502, 245gr from my alloy, has seen velocities from 650fps to 1100+fps out of my M625JM. One such load was 14gr of 2400. It was a load similar to what Elmer Keith suggests in Sixgun Loads. They were not compressed loads.

It is a handful and I'm not too enamored with 2400. Even with magnum primers I found it to leave a bunch of powder in the tube. I choose to use SR4756 for my heavy 45ACP loads. Physics being what it is, powder weight plays a part in recoil. I can get higher velocity with less SR4756 over 2400. It is much cleaner and I don't feel like I "need" to use magnum primers.

I know that the old timers didn't suggest using magnum primers but being the "technically OCD" type like I am, I want the numbers on the chronograph to be as consistent as possible. I get lower ES and SD numbers using magnum primers with 2400. That being said, and here comes the big disclaimer, you have to work your loads up with the components you use. Don't take a full charge of 2400, or any other powder for that matter, and arbitrarily change to magnum primers. The results can be seriously dangerous. Start over and work up.