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Old 01-03-2010, 06:53 PM
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Default imr 4227 powder?

anyone use this for 357mag loads?
I have a pound to get rid of its been around for a while. I tried it for some rifle loads and did not get good results.
Dave
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:00 PM
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Too fast for most serious rifle loads. Reduced lead bullet rifle loads are OK with it.

It meters like large boulders but does give some pretty good velocities and the reported accuracy is good too.

If you wanted to weigh each load and use a trickler, I suppose it would be OK.

I just found other powders that worked better for my uses so I left it alone long ago.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
anyone use this for 357mag loads?
I have a pound to get rid of its been around for a while. I tried it for some rifle loads and did not get good results.
Dave
4227 is not my first choice for any revolver cartridge but it certainly falls within the range of burning rates which make it applicable to this use. Go to www.hodgdon.com and you should find useful data. Hodgdon is now the distributor of both IMR and Winchester powders and has data for both.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:31 PM
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I have used IMR 4227 in .357 mag, .44 mag, 500 S&W, and .22 Hornet. I like it and it gives good velocities. I use a Pact electronic scale and weigh
my charges for magnum loads so metering is not an issue for me.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:29 PM
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I tried it a while back in a .222 but didnot get good groups .
I ran some through my autoscale and it meters like ball powders.
I tested 15 drops at 15.5 grains and they were all 15.4 to 15.5.
I loaded up 20 -357 158gr xtps for a test. ill run them across the chrono and check for speed. accuracy. see what if any pressure signs. i got the powder at a gun shop off the clerance table for $8 bucks.
thanks Dave
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:46 PM
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Outta my Uniflo, it meters very well and I have had good luck with it in .357 in both of my 6'' 686s and my 20'' model 92 carbine. I also use it for my hunting loads in .460 S&W.
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:28 PM
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WW-296 is a much better powder in the .357 IMHO. Cleaner burning and it meters much more consistently.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:40 AM
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IMP 4227 will make perfectly good .357 mag loads with 140gr and heavier bullets. I had tried it years ago but went back to 2400 for most of my magnum loadings.

It is supposed to be good for small case .22's like the .22 Hornet.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:49 AM
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It works very well in 45 Colt performance loads at standard pressures, but 4227 has never been a powder that I would choose for .357 Mag.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:02 AM
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I have used IMR4227 for 20 years with great success in the 41 Magnum. It works very well with both cast and jacketed bullets, best accuracy in the 1100 fps range with 210 grain bullets. It works so well with cast bullets that I rarely if ever fire a jacketetd bullts.

IMR4227 should work very well in the 357 in the same velocity range. I have tried it every now and then in the 357 with jacketed bullets, but have yet to find a load to equal my results with Unique, Lil Gun or H110. I suspect that this powders niche is 158 grain hard cast bullets in the 1100 fps range.

Checking Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook 3rd Ed., I find 2 cast bullets in the 150 to 160 grain range which list IMR4227 as their accuracy load, both the the 1330 fps range. Those are some pretty hot loads and my experience is that this powder works best at about 1100 fps.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:48 AM
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I tried some 2400 with good results a while back in the 357.
15.5grs of imr4227 should give me about 1200f/s ill load 5 rounds for comparison at aprox 1100f/s 14grs.
I will be shooting these out of a 66-1 4" barrel, not real sure what ths will give me for velocity. the reloading data is based on a 6" barrel
Dave
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:54 AM
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Hodgon reloadind annual 2010 has a article by Bart Skelton on IMR 4227 in 44 mag
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Old 01-04-2010, 02:40 PM
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Be careful of what you feed that 66. As you probably well know, 125 grain JHP 357 factory ammo gained a reputation for cracking forcing cones of K-frame guns due to the cut out where the crane fits under the barrel. I have placed an 1100 fps speed limit on ammo for my K-frames and frequently shoot 38 Specials out of them. L-frames were designed as full time 357s, but K-frames are part timers, primarily 38 Specials. I consider K-frame magnums to be true +P38s.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2010, 04:32 PM
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It's my go to .30 M-1 Carbine powder. And wonderful at it too!
Never tried it in a .357?
I'm down to my last 8# can of my "old" IMR 4227 stuff, so at this point I'm reserving it for that.
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:54 PM
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I started reloading .357 mag using IMR4227 some 50 years ago. The loads did exactly what I wanted and did what was predicted in the reloading manuals. The knock against IMR4227 was that was difficult to throw consistent weights thru any of the then available powder measures. As other powders came along that would go thru the powder measure easier and more accurately I stopped using IMR4227. With today's electronically automatic powder measures I would probably go back to using IMR4227. But with just a few years left for me to reload, I will just stick with my Redding Benchrest measure and other powders. ... Big Cholla
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:29 PM
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big, Do you still have any of your load data? I was looking at the diffrences in imr4227 and 2400.. the 2400 runs at a higher pressure than the 4227. say with a 158 gr bullet, full boat loads, its the opposite with loads on the low end.
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Old 01-06-2010, 12:55 AM
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dcb: No, sorry I don't have any records back that far. I did look in a Hodgon No. 26 loading manual. I don't know if you are talking about jacketed bullets or lead bullets. There is a significant difference in pressures developed to get these two types of bullets moving down the barrel with the jacketed bullet developing the most. As I recall, because of that I didn't have to crimp the jacketed bullets when using IMR4227 as much as I did the lead bullets. The crimping was to achieve the best ignition possible. IMR4227 is a stick powder and the burning rate curve will be slower to get to the peak than most of the ball or flake or short stick powders. Hold the bullet back a little with a crimp and the powder burns more completely and to its max achievable pressure while the bullet is still in the barrel.

With 158 gr. JHP, Hodgdon's No. 26 says start with 13.5 grains of IMR4227 and max is 14.5. You can use these same weights of powder for the use of lead bullets of the same weight as the jacketed bullet, but not vice versa.

With 200 gr. lead, Hodgdon's No. 26 says start with 10.5 and end with 12.0.

Those loads are very close to what they recommend for 2400 with 2400 being 1.5 grains less at max across the board.

If you use a modern electronic powder scale your use of IMR4227 will be very acceptable and will develop accurate loads. Stay below max loads by about 10% for the most accuracy. You could also hand trickle the powder loads using a 'trickler', but that is very slow. If you mechanically measure IMR4227 with a common powder measure stay well below max because of the occasional heavy 'throw' of up to 1 whole grain more than intended. I highly recommend any Hodgdon reloading manual and all of their products for that matter. ......... Big Cholla

Last edited by Big Cholla; 01-06-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2010, 04:05 PM
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4227 will work well enough for the .357 Magnum if you want to burn off some powder. It's accurate enough too for the most part. It's usually used in larger cases for Magnum type applications like the 460 Magnum and 500 Magnum but I know a guy who uses nothing but 4227 in his .44 Magnum rounds. I was much more popular back-in-the-day before we had all the "new and better" powders available to us. It does better with heavy-for-caliber bullets than light bullet applications from what I've seen. I would suggest loading 158gr bullet over 125gr bullets with 4227.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2010, 03:29 PM
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IMR 4227 is my standard powder for the 357.

The 357 Maximum that is.

I think it meters near perfectly for the Max and it is great!
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:59 PM
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4227 being an "Extreme" powder doesn't do much for Peter down in Houston, but it may be a factor further north, like Ohio.

There has been some juggling of powder by Hodgdon lately and I'm not sure if the current batch is H4227 or IMR 4227, but there's only one powder now. It might make a difference in data, depending on which it is.
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Old 01-09-2010, 04:10 PM
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I use alot of IMR 4227 in handguns, but not the .357.

In the .44 Magnum shoot 25.0 under a 250 Grain Lyman / Keith and 26.0 under a 200 Grn. Hornady XTP.

Both loads are extremely accurate in 4" 29's and the XTP load very effective on deer. A pal of ours used this load to "finish" a Virginia Whitetail with a headshot from about 30'. Without being too graphic, that XTP exposed the cranial vault and neither ear was ever found.
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Old 01-09-2010, 05:02 PM
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I like IMR 4227 and I don't know why. It doesn't meter quite as well as many other suitable powders. It doesn't yield quite the velocities that other suitable powders can produce in the straight-walled magnum revolvers. It isn't clean burning, leaving a lot of "crumbs" of yellow-green powder residue in the bore, on the cylinder face, and inside the frame. Despite all this it has proved to be quite accurate for me in the .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, and even the .38 Special. It appears to be well-mannered in near-max to max load applications. It works well with both cast and jacketed bullets.

It is first rate when used in the .22 Hornet and gives reasonable performance in the .30 Carbine (H 110 is best in my view).
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:42 PM
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4227 won't give the velocities that other powders might in the magnum revolver cartridges. But it does alright. The biggest plus it has is that for magnum type loads, it may be the easiest powder out there on the gun. Less flame cutting and forcing cone erosion, especially compared to H110 and 296. I established that to my satisfaction years ago shooting silhouette, and I know many others came to the same conclusion.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:59 AM
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Went to the range this morning and shot the 357 loads 158gr and imr 4227.
So far it appears to be a good load. off hand groups were about 2" at 15yrd.
recoil was mild for most part, no real sharp impact on the hands or wrist.
Shot these out of a 66-1 4" SS.
so far I like real well.
Dave
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:14 AM
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Hi Folks,

As a newcomer to the land of revolvers, I'm after a bit of advice. I figured it's better to ask than blow myself up or damage my gun.

I'm in Australia and IMR4227 (sold here as AR2205) is readily available.

So... I've bought a pound of it and I'm considering loading .357 magnum cartridges with a 110gr JHP over 21 grains of IMR4227 with standard small pistol primers. (21gr is the max charge in the manual)

I use my 4" 686 normally for target shooting using cast bullets with small charges of pistol powder, but I wanted to load something hot, just for a bit of fun. I don't intend on firing a lot of these rounds through my gun.

My question is: should I use magnum small pistol primers with this powder, or small rifle primers? (seeing as it's a rifle powder) or will the normal small pistol primers do the job?

And I should probably start 10% under the max loads and check for signs of excessive pressure. Shouldn't I?

Cheers,

Gus
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:14 AM
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I've used it in 357 Mag loads with 158 gr. JHP bullets for full house loads. It worked fine for me. I just got a bullet mold for a 160 gr. SWC with gas check and I'm going to try IMR4227 and 2400 with those bullets to see which works best.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gusr6 View Post
My question is: should I use magnum small pistol primers with this powder, or small rifle primers? (seeing as it's a rifle powder) or will the normal small pistol primers do the job?

And I should probably start 10% under the max loads and check for signs of excessive pressure. Shouldn't I?

Cheers,

Gus
I use regular small pistol primers with IMR4227 but magnum small pistol primers would work too. Your reloading manual should indicate one or the other for the data they are providing. I usually start out trying to use whichever primer size is indicated when doing a max load work-up. Either way I'd start lower than 10% off max to work my way up. Maybe I'm overly cautious but I usually start closer to the minimum or at the mid-point between min and max and go up from there. Just my two cent worth.
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Last edited by acl864; 10-29-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-29-2010, 10:18 AM
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My experience (noted in another thread on this subject), is that 4227 benefits from a magnum primer. It provides some extra flame to help light up the powder.

There are a couple of other specific small pistol primers made for high pressure/hard to ignite loads, Remingtons 5 1/2 being one, I believe Federal and/or Winchester also make them.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:20 AM
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I always poke magnum primers in the cases when IMR 4227 is on the menu.

I'd like to know your shooting impressions, gusr6, when you shoot those light 110 grain bullets using the powder. Welcome to the Forum!
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  #30  
Old 10-29-2010, 03:31 PM
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4227 is THE powder in the 357 Maximum, especially with 180 gr. XTP and similar bullets. Burn rate wise, it's slower than most, sort of a transition between slow pistol and fast rifle powders. Probably needs healthy pressures to burn properly.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:41 PM
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I have the better part of a pound of 4227 that I bought some 20+ years back. Didn't know what to do with it until I started to look at load data for trapdoor 45-70 loads @ 1400fps.

I'll get back to you when I shoot a few.

FWIW, 4227 is close in burn rate to 2400.
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Old 10-30-2010, 11:39 AM
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I had never used 4227 until a couple of years ago when someone gave me two pounds of H4227 and three pounds of IMR 4227. I've used it in 38 Special and 44 Special. In the 44 I used 15 grains of IMR 4227 and it makes a light load that is as accurate as any that I have ever loaded before.
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  #33  
Old 11-24-2012, 12:07 AM
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IMR4227 works great in the 401 SLR, which is just about the big brother to the 41Mag.
I use 410 cast bullets as they are in mine, though the specs call for .406/.407 dia.
35 Remington cases formed and reloaded on standard 41Mag dies.
Burns clean in the auto loading action and functions fine.
Cast bullets in the 210 to 240 weight range get pushed out at about 2000fps +/-.
I use standard LR primers.
Should work fine in the 41Mag I'd think. Sounds like it does for some folks here! I wish I had tried it in mine when I owned it.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:58 PM
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I will add that it gives excellent accuracy in my Yugo SKS, obviously 7.62x39. What's really amazing is the undersized .308" 110 gr. RN and 90 gr. Hornady XTP HP shoot so well.

Dave Sinko
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:09 PM
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I don't know if I got a bag bottle or what but I put 18.5C in my 6" 686 Mag and it dribbled out the barrel, pushing a 125 XTP at only 1229fps.................

16grs with a 158Jhp had powder blow back in my face and lots
of unburnt power all over the place,even with magnum primers.
Way too slow for the .357 mag , in my book..............

Win (Hs 6,7)or 2400 is the way to go.
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