I haven't loaded any 9mm in a few years, and I'm gonna get to the range in the next few days to try out my new M&P9c.

I have some WWB ammo, but want to put together some of my own loads using Missouri Bullet Co. 115 gr round nose and 231 or Bullseye (the only powders I have on hand right now).

I have the load specific book for 9mm (purchased from Midway 6 years ago) as well as the Lyman 48th edition handbook, but I'm finding pretty wide charge variations for cast lead.

I'm just punching holes in paper, and so don't need loads any hotter than needed to cycle the slide, and put rounds 7-10 yards down range with some degree of accuracy.

The bhn of the bullets is given as 18.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to where I can find some load data that's current and that'll work with my 9c?

Thanks.

---Andy

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp Hodgdon is the distributor for Winchester reloading powders. They have current on line data.

Dennis40x, I can't tell you how much I value that link to Hogdon's reloading data...I've searched 3 different forums, made phone calls to a few component company reps, and searched through my old reloading notes from 5-7 years ago, and I just couldn't find 115 gr cast lead data that I trusted.

I'm basically trying to avoid loads too light to function the slide, or too hot where I'd have to deal with severe leading issues. I know that reloading for any individual gun isn't an exact science...some guns 'prefer' some load combinations over others. I'm just trying to avoid trips to the range that result in wasted components and excessive time at the reloading bench.

I guess I'm getting to a point in my life where the shooting is becoming more fun than the reloading. I still reload for economic reasons, and because I honestly do get some satisfaction in putting together ammo that works better than the batch I did before. But honestly, I think the shoulder surgery and the back surgery I've had done in the past 3 years have impacted my favorite hobby/pastime more than I care to admit.

Thanks again, and have a great evening.

---Andy

Andy,
Either powder will work very well in the 9mm for "plinking" type loads. The W231 will get you a bit more velocity and still be in the safe range for pressure. If it was me, I would use it. I have used Bullseye in the 9mm and had good success but mostly with all metal firearms. They were full sized too.

One thing with the compact variety of semi-autos, their springs are stiffer than full sized firearms to reliably strip rounds from the magazine. I had a Springfield Champion in 45ACP that had a double spring. I had to use full power loads with it to get the slide back far enough to get a new bullet. You may have the same kind of trouble but I'm not sure. I've never shot one of the M&P autos. (Yet!)

Best to you.

That's the reason I stayed a bit above the 3.5 grain starter load of Bullseye for 125 cast out of my 9c Skip.
3.5 -1000-FPS
4.8 -1120-FPS
I'm running 3.75 grains and it seems to work the action fine? No leading.
But that 9c apparently will happily digest bark and twigs!

The Lyman 49th Edition 9X19mm (4” BL Universal Receiver):

#356402 120Gr (#2 Alloy) 1.110” OAL Win231 Powder charge weight (Starting 2.9Grs - MV963fps) / (Max 4.4Gr – MV1264fps)

#356242 120Gr (#2 Alloy) 1.065” OAL Win231 Powder charge weight (Starting 3.0Grs – MV1010fps) / (Max 4.1Gr – MV 1148fps)

I also noticed the stiff recoil spring on my M&P9c. I've put together 50 rnds for tomorrow's trip to the range. I used the Hogdon data for 231 with the 115gr round nose, and picked 2 charge weights right about in the middle of the range listed in that data. I'm also taking some WWB 115 gr I picked up at Wally World, so I should get some idea of how the gun (and I) shoot.

On the M&P forum, an owner of a M&P40c commented on how he experienced some FTE's on his new pistol, and he said that this problem resolved completely with a bit of shooting. It seems the mag springs on a new M&P are also stiff at the beginning, and with shooting, the guns seem to 'break in' just fine...very reliable feeding and extraction.

I'll let you all know how the shooting goes tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help.

---Andy

One other word to the wise, Andy. Shoot the jacketed ammo first. Resist the temptation to shoot your homebrewed loads first as any leading will be "ironed" into the pores of your barrel. If the leading is bad enough, there have been reports of barrels being split by running jacketed rounds later.

Just a caution but one I follow religiously. Then go home and clean the firearm and you will be able to tell just how bad, if any, leading you got too.

Have fun and what you have done in selecting a load is exactly what I do. I pick a powder that has the velocity range I am looking for as a top end and I start in the middle of the data available from the manufacturer.

FWIW

If you want to try Clays I just did your research for you. With my 9c, and those same bullets, 3.1 gr of clays won't reliably cycle the slide. 3.2 gr will. Still, I found 3.3 gr is just right. Lower recoil than WWB, good reliability and shoots POA. As discussed in an earlier thread, you may need to keep OAL to 1.110 or so to avoid jamming the bullet into the rifling and keeping the gun from battery. If this happens, you'll need a 5/16" wooden dowel /range rod to knock the bullet back and release the slide.

__________________
Dave

I have never heard this before. Does this mean that I can't shoot jacketed bullets in my revolvers now, since all I've ever shot so far is my home-cast bullets?

In 9mm loads I avoid the lighter lead bullets which have to be pushed at ca 1100 fps in order to operate the slide. Winchesters 14th Ed. reloading manual listed a max of 3.5 gr. W-231 with the 147 gr. cast lead bullet and that was a nice accurate load which did not lead the barrels (ca 900 fps).

FWIW, I've actually had very good luck with 3.3 gr of 231 under 147gr cast lead TC bullet in my M&P and in other 9's. Very reliable, moderate recoil, plenty accurate for what I do. I will use this load again when I get more of those bullets.

__________________
Dave

Wee Hooker, thanks for your suggestion of using Clays with these 115gr LRN. I've never used Clays, but in the back of one of my reloading manuals that has a burn-rate chart, it looks like Clays is a pretty fast-burning powder (slightly faster than Bullseye). Like your experience using this powder shows, Clays is probably a great reduced load choice, and I'm going to give it a try.

I'm going to try a pound of this locally, and put together some loads. I went to the range yesterday to try out those bullets in front of 4.5 and 4.6 grains of 231, and while the recoil/velocity seemed lesser than the WWB, they didn't seem to group too well.

Since my shoulder surgery last November, my dominant (right side) shooting arm muscles have really become tight from lack of use. So, my ability to hold and fire my handguns is just beginning to return to what it was before November. I guess what I'm saying is that for me to really know what loads work well, I'm probably going to have to use a rest of some kind...maybe sandbags.

BTW, the M&P9c didn't have any problems at all, except for the slide not holding open after the last round was fired. This happened 3 times in about 200 rounds. I'm not sure what's causing this...I didn't notice if this happened with only one of the two mags I was using, or if it happened with both. At any rate, I really had a great time with this pistol, and am looking forward to going out shooting again.

Thanks all, and have a great day.

I just have a real quick question. Wee Hooker...On Hodgdon's data, Clays is listed as one of their propellants. I just wanted to be sure I get the right stuff at the emporium tomorrow...there's a "Clays", a "Universal Clays", and an "International Clays". Since I've never used any of these three, I just wanted to make sure that the "Clays" that you mentioned earlier in this thread was the plain, simple "Clays". Is this right?

Thanks.

Yes just plain "Clays". Substitution of anything else is dangerous.
3.2- 3.3 gr of the stuff under that MBC 115GrLRN with min OAL should work fine in your 9C. Mine likes it.
(As a side note, I use and love this stuff for target laods in 45 acp and 38spl so if you load for these calibers you won't be stuck with surplus.)

FWIW, I like the Missori bullet quality but won't likely buy this particular bullet again due to it's troublesome shape /OAL issue. I'm going to a 125 gr conical for my next run but will have to get it from mastercast or another.

__________________
Dave

Dave,

I PM'd you earlier this evening before I read your last post. I'll get some of the Clays, and use it with the MBC 115 gr LRN in my M&P9c, as well as in some .38spl for my 642 as soon as I get some decent cast bullets sized .358".

Because of the shape of the MBC 115, I've asked RCBS to send me a seating punch with a shallow curve that won't score the bullets when I seat them. They're sending it out N/C...Great Customer Service! I'll also keep the OAL to 1.110.

Thanks again, and have a great week.

---Andy