Cream of Wheat - Not just for breakfast?

[dalewelch]

Where did the idea of using cream of wheat in low power
loads in .38/.357 and .44 come from?

I have heard more than one old timer mention this when
loading and every book I have read says "never" do this.

I am from the south so should I use grits instead?

Any help finding the origins of this myth would be appreciated.

Thanks,

dale

[Bendutro]

I think it was a way of filling the case when using small charges of fast powder to help avoid misfires. A big case like a 44 mag with only 8-9 grains in it rattles around a bit. I use a near-full case of H110 so I've never tried it.

[oldRoger]

In days of yore we put 2.7- 3.0 grs of Bullseye in a 38 case behind a 148 gr HBWC and 3.6-4.0 grs Bullseye behind a 200 gr Ideal LSWC in our .45 cases. Everyone was happy and made round holes close together in the paper.

Then the gunwritters started to worry about the powder not filling the case, being out of position, etc, etc. concluding with the idea that unbeknownst to us we were experiencing dreadful results.
All of these “problems” could be avoided by filling the cases with inert material, Kapok, cream of wheat, drier lint, etc which would keep the powder in place (and make one hell of a mess).

So dutifully we messed and mixed and experimented, PITA------------then the writers found something else to do, new powders to extol, and so the world moved on.

I don’t began to pretend to keep up with the latest thinking in rifle reloading or the strange goings on in benchrest circles, or indeed the black powder crowd but as far as I know inert fillers in handgun loads were but a passing phase. Lamented by few I might add.

[ChuckS1]

The Cast Boolits forum has a thread or two on using cream of wheat. One suggested that it would help eliminate leading when used with a reduced load as a cleaning round.

[shaggist]

I always wondered for what purpose Cream of Wheat was invented. The one bowl I had tasted horrible, like it was made of glue and something recycled. Now I know its real function. I won't use it for that either.

[arthur52]

Use something that won't burn. Cream of wheat will turn to dust at firing and sometimes ignite in a separate explosion. Sounds like you touched off a muzzle loader. I ran across this at a range when I noticed the sounds from a guy shooting a couple of lane away. Asked what his load was and to look at his casing. Badly flattened primers and he was having problems ejecting them. He was trying reduced loads of 2400 in a .44 mag.

[Dennis The B]

I used corn meal as a filler when I loaded down a Sharp's chambered in .45-120. The 115 grains of FFg in the case was punishing, so, I cut the charge to 90 grains. The fun was the aroma of corn bread everytime I touched off a round.

When powder charges get very light, there's the possibility of flashover, i.e. the powder nearest the primer not igniting first. It was/is thought that this would/will create an over-pressure condition, creating the possibility of a ruptured case, even a bulged cylinder. At least that's the concept.

[Jellybean]

I think the reason is because of load density. Some powders require a certain amount of the available cartridge space be filled in order to ignite and burn properly.

I still use small amounts of pillow stuffing in my squib loads just to keep the teeny weeny charges of Bullseye from getting lost or seperated in the case.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by oldRoger

In days of yore we put 2.7- 3.0 grs of Bullseye in a 38 case behind a 148 gr HBWC and 3.6-4.0 grs Bullseye behind a 200 gr Ideal LSWC in our .45 cases. Everyone was happy and made round holes close together in the paper.

Then the gunwritters started to worry about the powder not filling the case, being out of position, etc, etc. concluding with the idea that unbeknownst to us we were experiencing dreadful results.
All of these “problems” could be avoided by filling the cases with inert material, Kapok, cream of wheat, drier lint, etc which would keep the powder in place (and make one hell of a mess).

So dutifully we messed and mixed and experimented, PITA------------then the writers found something else to do, new powders to extol, and so the world moved on.

I don’t began to pretend to keep up with the latest thinking in rifle reloading or the strange goings on in benchrest circles, or indeed the black powder crowd but as far as I know inert fillers in handgun loads were but a passing phase. Lamented by few I might add.

And this folks is what lead to the invention of Hodgdons Trail Boss Powder.

Lots of fluff and fills up the case nicely and fills their profits nicely also. Do not take this wrong I love the company and it's products, it's just that the bottle of Trail boss looks like a 1 lb container for a few dollars more but is only 9 oz. Works well but rather expensive.

There was a thread on this a while back. Puffed Wheat, shot from guns and the 1812 overture I want to try pop corn

[oldRoger]

And the prize today goes to OCD1
Terrific, brilliant idea, 4.0 grs Bullseye plus one kernel of un-popped corn, fire fast in your 1911 and create shower of popcorn, I love it!

Perhaps Puf-Lon or cornmeal, or something may have an application in rifle loading or (??) marginally in near max handgun loads (??).

But, billions and billions of Bullseye Target loads have been shot very successfully without filler. Filler in target loads is a solution looking for a problem.

[ken158]

Load em like they were designed and save the cream of wheat and corn meal for the kitchen. oldRoger is correct - just another kool-aid recipe the gun writers dreamed up to see who would drink it. People want to make magnums out of regular cartridges and make powder puff loads out of magnums.

[Marksman]

Back in the mid '70's I was shooting with a group on an indoor law enforcement range, I wanted to use my M/29 and the group suggested a reduced load of Bullseye with kapok filler. Not familiar with using filler, I inquired as to how much Kapok to use. I was told to use one grain and I dutifully weighed one grain of Kapok adding it to my loads. When the range officer gave the commence firing order, my firing point looked as if someone was having a pillow fight from all the Kapok fluff in the air. I'm not so certain that I wasen't set up by my "buddies", because it was a fun match everyone got a good laugh and was not annoyed like folks might have been had it been a serious match. I have since occassionally used Kapok as a filler in light loads, just enough of a dab to hold the powder back against the flash hole. It is completely consumed in firing and no more pillow fight.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

This business of using cereal as fillers is nothing new.

I was just reading a post on the SASS wire about this recently, regarding using cereal as a filler with 777, one of Hodgdon's Black Powder substitutes. Everybody was going back and forth about it until a member who works for Hodgdon chimed in. He was adamant that cereal fillers should NEVER be used in cartridges. Hodgdon did extensive testing and found that the very dry cereal tended to pull moisture out of the powder over time. This in turn changed the burning characteristics of the powder. The longer the ammo sat on the shelf, the more the burning characteristics changed and the higher the pressure got. Eventually, the 777 loads with cereal in them were producing dangerously high pressures, higher than Max Smokeless pressures.

He was quite adamant that cereal, such as cream of wheat or grits should never be used as a filler because of this, not just with 777 but with Smokeless too.

[magnum12pm]

This is funny, wondering how you use filler in a progressive and still churn out 300 an hour. I have used plenty of Titegroup, which fills very little of the case. It sure seems like all the powder is burning.

[michael thornton]

i have used cotton balls, cream of wheat? come on now you got to be kidding me!

[Jellybean]

People want to make magnums out of regular cartridges and make powder puff loads out of magnums.

The way I do the second part is to find an old cartridge that has a similar case capacity and use the powders they used. If you pay attention to bullet weights and diameters you can also use some of their load data. That's how I powder puffed my .41 magnums, but they'll still blow a hole all the way through a piece of paper, and the cardboard backer they rode in on.

[TBerg]

I'm quite new to smokeless reloading, but in black powder competitive shooting I often use a filler like cream of wheat in my carbine loads because for competition we often use lesser grain charges of black powder than was called for in the original cartridge. For Instance, my Sharps carbine fires a paper cartridge that needs to have the back of it sheered off by the closing of the breech block. If using a reduced charge, the cartridge isn't long enough to push the bullet into the chamber to seat properly and for the breech block to sheer its tail off and expose the powder. The filler makes the cartridge long enough to use with the reduced load. In my Smith carbine, the filler allows me to fill the case up enough to slightly compress the charge which I have been told leads to more consistent ignition.... Maybe these black powder applications lead to the experimentation in the smokeless world.

[goldenlight]

I can remember, many, many years ago, experimenting with polyester fiber, the kind used to fill pillows.

The theory was that it would keep the powder back by the primer, but would burn completely and cleanly.

Well, I loaded 100 rounds of 44 magnum loaded with 8 or 9 gr. (I forget) of Unique, and a bit of the polyester fluff placed in each case.

I fired it side by side with the same bullets and powder charge WITHOUT the polyester filler.

Well, the polyester DID burn completely, and left no residue that I could find.

It also made absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in accuracy, that I could tell, shooting from sandbags at about 25 yards, on a fine summer day.

Thus ended the Great Gun Magazine Inspired Polyester Fiber Half Empty (half full?) Case Reloading Experiment.

What a waste of time!

[scattershot]

I tried it in a rifle (45/70) with 2400, and ringed the chamber. I tried it in a handgun, (.45 Colt) and got flattened primers with a mild load I have used for years.

I don't do that any more.

[dla]

I can understand using fillers if you don't have access to the right powder. But otherwise I believe it is a waste of time.

I have used Clays (pretty fast - like Bullseye but cleaner) and WLP primers for rifle plinkers. Whether it was 165gr cast 30-30 @1100fps, or 500gr cast @750fps 45-70, I had no ignition problems, no leading, - just fun and accurate.

There's a ton of data out there on using fast pistol powders in light loads without fillers and the data is good. IMO the mistake some folks make is to try to make "plinkers" using light loads of slow powder.

[Iggy]

One thing to remember is that inert material (cream of wheat or whatever) must be calculated as part of the projectile weight and the powder charge changed/reduced to reflect that.

I'm speaking primarily of black powder loads in large capacity rifle cases. I don't use fillers in my 45-70's as the case is small enough not to need them. I don't use smokeless powders in BPC rifles either.

With the variety of smokeless pistol powders available, I can't see much need to use fillers in pistol cartridges either.