I have a problem with water snakes under, around, and on my dock this year. (I know most snakes are good, but these guys have a very nasty disposition and I have grand kids coming in a few weeks.) Today I was using CCI 38's in a 342PD snubby with terrible results. By the time you get close (6-8ft) they are mostly submerged and the shot doesn't reach them. I would like to kick it up a notch and load my own for either a .357 (5"627PC) or 45ACP (4 1/4"). From what I've read, the longer barrel of either one, combined with a stouter load is probably the way to go.

I have found a few threads where people have made up there own "snake shot" using thin cardboard for wadding material and melted wax to seal the end.

Could anyone share their experiances and/or recipes with either/both of these loads? I am not stuck on any particular way to proceed, but could use ideas if you have them to share.

Thanks,
Denny

My experience has been that the larger the bore the better they work. The 45 works much better for me than the 38. I also believe the shorter your barrel the better they work. Spin from rifling does bad things to shot causing the pattern to open up sooner. A short barrel seems to maybe put less spin on the charge, guess it has less time to interact with the shot charge and the shot charge is stripping through it. With all that said, 10-15 feet is about all the effective range you are going to get. If you need more than that, need to go to a .410 shotgun.

If that's the case maybe I just need to make up some 38 +P's and keep using the 342.

I use the Speer shotshell capsules with satisfying results. I don't believe they sell any capsules for the .45 Auto, so you'll be interested in the .357" capsules. Speer recommends using .38 Special brass when reloading the capsules for the .357 Magnum due to brass thickness concerns.

Unfortunately, "loading up" your shotshell loads might defeat the purpose. The rifling in your pistol barrel will cause the shot charge to spin. Speer cautions that loading their shotshells to too high a velocity causes the shot charge to spin too quickly, destroying the pattern. Even at their recommended loads (which give about 1050 fps), the shot charge is spreading at a rate of 1" per foot.

I use #11 size shot for my shotshell loads (.38 and .44 Specials). They don't penetrate as well as the larger shot sizes, but they're very effective on snakes.

If you don't want to bother with reloading your own (or you need them in a hurry), MidwayUSA has CCI shotshells using the Speer capsules in stock for both the .357 Magnum and the .45 Auto.

Hope this helps.

When loading your own - go with the smallest shot available, usually #12. Hard to find but makes the shells much more effective on snakes. CCI uses #9 except for the 9mm which I believe is #12

I have had good results with the .38 Speer shotshell capsules using the Unique load included with them. They pattern best out of my 2" snubby. If you are looking for something more robust, .44 or .45 shotshell capsules in a short barrel should make quick work of close targets. Another consideration would be a .410 revolver like the Taurus Judge. I don't particularly like Taurus, but for this particular purpose it does seem to fill a niche role quite well. I have seen them used for decent prices in local shops.

For loading your own, go with #9 shot, or #12 if you can find it.

i have the same problem with rattlers around here. And we know that grand kids and rattlers dont play well together. I tried the snake or shot shells and I've found them to be useless. I went back to using my normal carry shells (150 Grn SWCs) out of my 642 pocket pistol.

It works.

My wife carries a Judge when she rides, 410 shells work, pistol shot shells don't.

I learned a trick in shooting water snakes as a kid, when they are in the water, you dont shoot the snake, you just under the sucker, the bullet travels just under the water line, getting the snake.

We used to use .22 LR on them. If you can get within 6'-8' of them, you won't have any trouble hitting them. I know what you mean about them having nasty dispositions. They will actually come at you.

another option might be a Bond Arms 45LC/410 double barrel derringer. Don't own one but have handled and fired one. They are well made but I will say that with 410 they are a hand full but manageable. For all practical purposes you have no barrel to amound to anything in front of the shell to disrupt the pattern. Good thing is it is so small you could easily keep it in your pocket or a small holster at all times while you are near the water.

I hear that. Yesterday I took a watering can down to get some lakewater. I was out on the dock and bent down to fill it up when one came out at either the watering can or my hand. Had to change my shorts but it didn't get me.

I Have experience shooting rattle snakes on dry land. the .38spl sot shells will kill a rattle snake at 6 ft. The .45 Colt shots shells are like hitting the snake in the head with a golf club at 6-8 feet. Bigger is deader.

While smaller shot gives a more dense pattern than larger shot, it gives less penetration in exchange. This is a lose-lose proposition for shooting in water. I'd go with solid bullets in squib loads first, then move up to midrange loads if the squibs don't work. Well, first I'd prefer to use a bow and fishing arrow, but I don't have that problems around here.

I would not shoot bullets at water. Too great a risk of them skipping. Use small shot.

Skipping depends on the angle of the shot. Small pellets will hit the hard cohesive surface and almost stop, then drop harmlessly to the bottom.

Oh, by the way, make sure there are no federal or state laws regarding the use of lead in the waterway.

I buy the .38 Speer capsules and load them with #8 shot. These are devastating on our Prairie Rattlers. It sounds like the snake being submerged may be your problem. If it were me, I'd try #4 shot in the short barreled .38.

The faster you propel the shot -- the worse the pattern, at least in my .38s and .357s. I use a small helping of Red Dot in mine.

I sometime use .44 Speer snake loads and these are roughly 2/3 of a 2 1/2" 410 shell (in payload). They obviously have more reach than the .38s but wouldn't penetrate any better.

Longer barrels are not the answer. The spin the rifling imparts on the load will be increased by longer barrels, and this throws the pattern way out. Best patterns are with 2" to 3" barrels. I load 44 special shot shells, (Speer capsules), with #12 shot and it throws a good dense pattern and will do a good job out to about 10-12 ft. from a 3" barrel. Your best bet is 22RF in a rifle from further out. Zero it at the distance you feel most appropriate, 15-20 yards and clean them out.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Yes skipping depends on the angle but unless you are standing on top of the snake there is going to be an angle. I have been there, done that, seen that, and gotten in trouble doing that at a young age. We were shooting turtles in a pond from a hill at an angle of around 45 degrees. Some of the bullets were skipping into the trees on the other side of the pond. Neighbor called Sheriff, Sheriff talked to Father, Father wore my tail out. Could have been much worse though. It doesn't take a very extreme angle to happen. And we aren't talking about shooting snakes UNDER the water. If you're going to shoot a snake it is going to be on TOP of the water. Penetration of the water is not needed. Shooting ANY bullet at the surface of water is a really bad idea.

I have and have tried both .38 & .44 shot shells. All of the problems inherent in them are outlined above. No pattern and no penetration being the most important IMO.
The best Idea I have is to use .22 shorts in a M63 or something similar. Even if you didn’t have to worry about the skip, shooting anything in the water is very difficult.
Actually around here the Eastern Diamondbacks are best dealt with using garden implements.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I remember reading an article on the internet a while back and any caliber smaller than 45acp was proven to be unreliable.

It was a while back, but this might be the link:
The Box O' Truth #30 - Snakeloads O' Truth - Page 1

This is going to be your order of effectiveness

.410 Shotshell, any small shot load
45LC 150grn #9
44spl 140grn #9
45acp 117grn #9
38spl 109grn #9
40s&w 105grn #9
9mm 64grn #11
22wmr 52grn #12
22lr 31grn #12

The wife and I kill a lot of snakes at our place.

Mostly Diamond Back Water snakes @40+ inches.

They are non posionous, but they eat my duck eggs.

Speer shotshells work great on dry land.

However we shoot them swimming in our pond as well.

I use an 18.5" double 20ga with No6 or even better No4 shot.

Aim for their head as they swim. If you hit them they will spin around on the surface of the water.... Then give them the second barrel.

HEre are a couple of links that should help. Both methods make some pretty impressive shot loads.
James Calhoon Fine Shootin' Bullets Main Page ( Look in the informitive artical section)

Snake Stopper

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Dave

Had a guy once tell me they'd depth charge water moccasins and fish with cherry bombs or M-80's since their fuses are water proof. Maybe time for a trip to the Indian reservation for some ordinance. I once saw what an M800 did to a steel 30gal trash can though that may be a bit over kill. They'd probably take care of those underwater critters better than just shooting them when they're on the surface. Might even drive them away from the dock. Use would depend upon how sensitive your neighbors are to big bangs. Course you may kill all the nearby fish too.

IMHO the 30-30 does great in water shots for snakes frogs turtles next would have to be 410 shotgun. Back in the day my Father's TC with the 44 mag. snake shot and the 410 work well in controlling the numbers.

Hey Guys I live in Southern California, can you tell me what a water snake is? We mostly deal with rattle snakes out here and really have no snakes in the water here at all. Thanks,

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Craig

We used to do that with moccasins all the time when I was growing up. We'd glue a nut or egg sinker to the bottom with rubber cement, light up and toss it at the snakes. They will usually freeze when something hits the water but when it goes off they came to the top. At that point, Crossman pellet rifles were the thing to use. We would sometimes glue BBs to the side of the M-60s, but this was more to make us feel cool. The cardboard wrapper was too thick to get them flying.

Only snake that ever tried to bite me, completely unprovoked, was a Diamondback water snake, so I'm happy to see them shot! They are ill-tempered SOBs. I've had excellent results with CCI shotshells in .45 ACP. I've not used them on snakes, but I've killed lots of big wood rats with them, and on one occasion, killed a gigantic, rabid tomcat. The cat was actually jumping at my face from a stack of boxes in the corner of my barn, and I shot him three times in the air. I was wishing for more terminal ballistics, but couldn't risk perforating my barn wall. Water snakes are not nearly as tough as a 15-18 lb. tomcat. I've used handloaded Speer shot caps in .38 Special in years past, but the .45s work much better, as others have mentioned.

Genus Nerodia (used to be classified in Natrix), the various species of water snakes are often mistaken for Water Moccasins, and to help further the confusion, the common name of one is "Stump-tailed water moccasin." Ubiquitous, and nasty creatures. Oh, and rattlesnakes often swim...

Have found larger cals work better. Wife carries either a 44 or 45. I carry an ol 1911 with the older Remington shot loads If you have a contender in 45-410 it is very effective..very with the 410. For single shot use I got a bunch of the appropriate size gell capsules for giving to cows and horses at the local farm center..Work great..especially when you cut cardboard wads with a sharply chamfered case and use under the capsule. They can hold a lot of shot I use 9's. Those blasted water snakes can be nasty...Bout like an ex-wife in court...when she's losin...LOL I especially like the HISS...from the snake, of course

My snake charmer is a Rossi Youth model "matched pair". Mine has a single shot .410 barrel that's 18" and it's very compact. You can switch out the barrel with a .22lr. I think I paid $150 for it several years ago.