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Old 05-30-2010, 06:19 PM
preventec47 preventec47 is offline
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Default Lee Factory Crimp vs Taper Crimp die ?

I see both of these are available for some of the calibers
I am interested in. Maybe one or two dollars difference
which is meaningless. When is one preferable to the
other and why? Any other considerations?
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:33 PM
TwoPoundPull TwoPoundPull is offline
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Entirely dependent on what you are loading.......Give us a clue
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preventec47 View Post
I see both of these are available for some of the calibers
I am interested in. Maybe one or two dollars difference
which is meaningless. When is one preferable to the
other and why? Any other considerations?
I'm not familure with the Lee product line but my best guess is that the regular one is for crimping into a bullet with a cannelure on it such as 38spl, 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 mag etc are examples.
The taper crimp is for those cartridges that sit on the case mouth in the chamber such as ; 9mm,10mm,45 ACP etc.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:00 PM
preventec47 preventec47 is offline
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I want to load for 9mm, 10mm auto pistols, and 38 special
as well as 8mm Mauser Rifle and 7mm Rem Mag

I could be wrong but I thought I had seen both types of
crimp dies for the same calibers whether they had
a groove in the bullet or not. OR headspaced on
the case mouth.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:41 PM
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A taper crimp die from Lee is just that, a taper crimp die. A factory carbide crimp die has a carbide ring in the bottom that will smooth out the case and apply a crimp. There is some debate about using them with cast bullets, as you are essentially distorting the bullet while its passing through the carbide ring.

Another benefit to the Factory carbide crimp die is you can purchase the Lee Bulge Buster unit....which converts the carbide crimp die into a push through sizing die for brass...similar to the redding grx units. Costs 15 dollars let you do 45 acp, 40/10mm and 380 auto I believe. This is particularly beneficial to those with glocks or other guns that lack great case support.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:22 PM
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You are really talking about the same thing, sort of. A standard taper crimp die does just that, crimps. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp (CFC) die for auto-pistol cartridges is a taper crimp die that adds a carbide ring to size the case body at the same time as you crimp.

The CFC die is principally intended for bullets of nominal or, if you will, "Standard" diameter for caliber. Either with slightly thicker brass or bullets larger than "standard" it can re-size the bullet at the same time it is sizing the case. Not so much with the tapered 9mm case, though.

"Standard for caliber" would mean:

.38/357 .357"
.44 .429"
.40/10mm .401"

And on, and on......

If you load or need bullets bullets larger than the nominal diameter for your caliber the CFC isn't going to work for you.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
I want to load for 9mm, 10mm auto pistols, and 38 special
as well as 8mm Mauser Rifle and 7mm Rem Mag
Your choices are really taper crimp (9mm, 10mm), roll crimp (.38), no crimp (rifle calibers), versus factory crimp die.
Based on my experience, I would not use the FCD on those rifle calibers, and I never need it on the 9mm. I rarely use it on .38, for fat bullets that fail the drop-in case gauge.
The .40 is a frequent problem and the FCD is valuable, especially if I get some "Glocked" cases.
I don't load 10mm.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
You are really talking about the same thing, sort of. A standard taper crimp die does just that, crimps. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp (CFC) die for auto-pistol cartridges is a taper crimp die that adds a carbide ring to size the case body at the same time as you crimp.

The CFC die is principally intended for bullets of nominal or, if you will, "Standard" diameter for caliber. Either with slightly thicker brass or bullets larger than "standard" it can re-size the bullet at the same time it is sizing the case. Not so much with the tapered 9mm case, though.

"Standard for caliber" would mean:

.38/357 .357"
.44 .429"
.40/10mm .401"

And on, and on......

If you load or need bullets bullets larger than the nominal diameter for your caliber the CFC isn't going to work for you.
I use Lee CFC on 9mm. It helps to remove the "coke bottle effect." It seems to be helpful on 9mm if you don't trim your cases. I suspect its value is purely cosmetic if you do trim cases.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:59 PM
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Old 05-31-2010, 11:20 AM
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So far on all my rifle stuff I have only ever neck sized with
collet dies and never needed to crimp.
It is the pistol stuff I am gearing up for that is a bit
confusing. 10mm first

Thanks
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:26 PM
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If you're loading Raniers or Berrys a taper crimp is preferred to a roll crimp so the copper plating isn't compromised. I use one in 38/357 and 44mag.......
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:33 PM
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I have both for .357/.38 because I like a bit of taper crimp on my 148 HBWC which I do not load flush.
IMO for target loads in revolvers a light taper crimp is fine.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:50 PM
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The most useful Lee FCD's are those for the bottle-necked .32-20, .38-40, and .44-40 cartridges. They have very thin walls at the case mouth, and crimping with any kind of axial movement can lead to bulged and wrinkled cases. These dies use a radial crimping movement that avoids most of the problems. A really good idea!


Buck
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:37 AM
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If your bullet seating die is set to crimp. why would you want to crimp a 2nd time ? The rimless cases taper crimp, as a roll crimp could cause problems. If you are having problems with a particular bullet, the Lee FCD might resolve the problem. The only 2 rimless cartridges I load for are 9mm and .30 Carbine. I do not use a Lee FCD for either.

On the other hand where I reload .38 Special, .357 magnum, .44 Special and .44 magnum I do use the Lee FCD, as these are a roll crimp situation and crimp jump is bad juju. The Lee FCD give me a heavy roll crimp on these. Actually for the Specials I doubt that crimp jump is a big concern and the Lee FCD might be overkill here. I'll find out as I just bought a S&W M&P 340 and will be experimenting with .38 +P, maybe even .38 +P+.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:19 AM
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The Lee FCD is a different type of crimp die for autos (actually a more sophisticated taper crimp die than a standard taper crimp die, as well as having the function of resizing the complete cartridge) and revolver cartridges (a roll crimp and cartridge resizing die). In either case, Lee says it is not possible to over-crimp and distort the cases. The Lee Taper Crimp die, on the other hand, is a standard taper crimp die. Lee says it is primarily offered to replace those Lee made prior to 1986 (or is it 1985), primarily applicable to auto cartridges. In fact, I understand that it is now the "standard" seating/crimp die included in current Lee die sets for cartridges that headspace on the rim (most semi-auto cartridges), though I certainly could be wrong.

I recently started using the FCD in reloading .45 ACP, and I can only say it is a real improvement. I set up the standard seating/crimp die for seating only, with no crimp, and place the FCD in the next station. Once properly adjusted, it results in extremely consistent rounds, even with mixed brass, excellent headspacing, excellent chamber fit and consistent feeding in all my 1911s. I'm convinced - I will get another for 9mm (when I get around to reloading it, just don't shoot a lot of them), and plan to try them for .38/.357 and .44 Mags, as well. I do have them for .308 and .30-06, haven't tried them in the rifle calibers yet, though. I expect good results in that application, as well (a different system altogether from the handgun caliber FCDs, BTW). My bottom line recommendation - try the FCD, I bet you'll like it. If you don't, you aren't out a lot of money, and it shouldn't be too hard to sell. I wouldn't recommend buying the Lee taper crimp die, as it is included in current Lee die sets, just duplicating what you probably already have.

One other thing - I have used it in reloading 200 grain cast lead semi-wadcutters in .45 ACP, and have had no problems with it, only more reliable feeding than without it. (Edited to add comment re: using with lead bullets)

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctk1981 View Post
A taper crimp die from Lee is just that, a taper crimp die. A factory carbide crimp die has a carbide ring in the bottom that will smooth out the case and apply a crimp. There is some debate about using them with cast bullets, as you are essentially distorting the bullet while its passing through the carbide ring.
I used the Lee die in this manner for a couple of years. It worked very well and made cartridge feeding smoother in 52-2. Recently after reading an article about reloading for the 52 that came out when the gun was new I decided to try a Redding taper crimp die. With my shooting ability I'll probably not see any difference but its always fun to tinker.

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Old 06-07-2010, 12:06 PM
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Just as an interesting note something I found out-
You can call Lee and order/buy a factory oversized Factory Crimp Die (FCD) purpose made for oversized lead bullets. The carbide rings are +.002 over "normal".
That way if you're using .358 or .359 boolits the carbide resizing ring in the FCD is .379 instead of .377 (if I remember right). I think SAAMI max for 357 cartridge is .379?
Same goes for many other calibers apparently.

So while some people complain that the standard FCD's swage down lead bullets and ruin accuracy, you don't have to if you like the concept of crimping on a separate die and having that final check station.
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:00 AM
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My Marlin .357 Magnum Model 1894 needs oversized cast lead bullets and I found that the Lee FCD was downsizing my .359 - .360 bullets down to .358 so what I did was buy another seating die, just the barrel without the seating plug from Lee and put that in the 4th stage of my turret press for crimping. My regular seating die in the 3rd hole is setup to just seat the bullet, not crimp. I get very good results with this setup.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:59 PM
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I bought the Lee crimp dies in .45 ACP and in 9 MM. The 45 is useful to size the body of the brass where it bulges at the base of some cast bullets. The crimp is a normal taper crimp just like any other taper crimp. "Factory" implies something else...................................
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:20 AM
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Taper crimp is generally used for semi-auto cartridges . Roll crimp for revolvers . I & many others do taper crimp our target ammo even in revolvers . Lee has 2 FCD's one has a carbide ring that sizes the whole cartridge & crimps . This is the one cast bullet shooters hate . Yes you can custom order an oversized one . The Collet crimp FCD is OK except IMHO it works case mouth more than I care for . In bottleneck rifle cartridges it leads to having to trim cases more often . I much prefer to use bushing dies so I can control neck tension without overworking it . All that said if used correctly the Lee Collet Crimp will produce accurate ammo with little runout in centerfire rifle rounds . Handgun / straightwalled cases I prefer other dies , especially with lead bullets .
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:57 AM
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Here's what a Lee factory crimp die does to a .357

I have no example of the other
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Old 05-21-2020, 03:45 PM
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To try and shed a little more light on the subject :
1.) Taper Crimp dies are usually used on semi-auto rounds , 9mm Luger, 40 S&W , 10mm Auto , 45 acp . etc. And on bullets with smooth sides with no cannelure or crimp groove . These rounds seat on the case mouth and can't be roll crimped .

2.) Roll Crimp usually used on bullets that have a cannelure or crimp groove made into the bullet like revolver bullets , they seat on a rim so the case mouth can be rolled into the cannelure or crimp groove provided . Too much roll crimp and the case will bulge out so you have have to learn how to properly adjust them .

3.) Lee Factory Crimp Die . This was invented by Richard Lee to sell to those who had trouble getting a proper roll crimp or taper crimp by adjusting the crimp die that comes with a standard die set...some think they are wonderful ... I never had a need for them , I learned how to adjust crimp dies 50 years ago .

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Old 05-21-2020, 07:19 PM
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I quit using the FCD because it was resizing my .452" lead .45 ACP bullets down to .451".
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:38 AM
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I have never used a Lee FCD, the idea of resizing the case after the bullet is seated and possibly undersizing the bullet in the process never appealed to me. For me, I roll crimp revolver cartridges and taper crimp semi-auto pistol cartridges using a separate crimping die. Seating and crimping in the same step can work, but I find that using a separate die works better.
Your mileage may vary.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:05 AM
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The only use I've found for a Lee FCD is resizing my 38 Spcl wadcutter cases . I decap & then run them through a FCD that I removed the innards from . Just die body & carbide ring . Works this thin walled brass less than FL resizing . Barely bell case mouth & I can seat even the .359 Rem HBWC's , finish with a light taper crimp to .371 . I do this for my 38 target revolvers 2 Colt OMM & a PPC gun built on a Model 10 . All these have faster twist barrels for stabilizing the 148 HBWC & are capable of 10 ring accuracy @ 50yds . Same cases shot in the same guns . Low pressure loads in the 9 to 10K psi range exceptional accuracy & cases last forever .
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:02 PM
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I use a Lee taper crimp on NOE Keith SWC’s on forward driving band to meet published 1.553” OAL in 357 Mag cases. Crimping in crimp groove will not allow them to fit in my SP101 so I taper crimp on the bullet’s front band. The bullets do not move upon recoil in either my SP101 or Ruger Blackhawk with 1/2 turn of the Lee taper crimp using my standard magnum load of 12.0 grs 2400...

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