Want to reload, maybe!

[ENGINE18]

In reading the recent .38 ammo threads, reloading came up as it aleawys does. I'm considering getting into reloading .38/.357 and .44 Special. (I have thousands of .38/.357 and .44 once-fired brass)

My goal would be to load target WC/SWC ammo first saving the defensive stuff for the factory loads.

I'm aware that there are tons of reloading tables and have them saved as "favorites." I'm also aware that there are a lot of threads here regarding equipment. I do have a few questions though.

1. Is it really cheaper to reload? If so how much?
2. Are conponents easy to find? Seems like they are a bit
scarce.
3. Anything else you would care to add.

Thanks in advance

[kennyb]

you will save even more by casting your own bullets...as to savings you will be reloading your mentioned calibers for around $6.00 per 50..
with the new presidental scare components (notably primers)were scarce...most of that has since passed
it's a fun hobby...you can make what you want,when you want...and make it better then factory

[snowman]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

In reading the recent .38 ammo threads, reloading came up as it aleawys does. I'm considering getting into reloading .38/.357 and .44 Special. (I have thousands of .38/.357 and .44 once-fired brass)

My goal would be to load target WC/SWC ammo first saving the defensive stuff for the factory loads.

I'm aware that there are tons of reloading tables and have them saved as "favorites." I'm also aware that there are a lot of threads here regarding equipment. I do have a few questions though.

1. Is it really cheaper to reload? If so how much?
2. Are conponents easy to find? Seems like they are a bit
scarce.
3. Anything else you would care to add.

Thanks in advance

Sir,

Some will tell you that it's not, because you just will end up shooting more and spending just as much as you would have with fewer factory rounds. I'm sure that that is true for some, but definitely NOT for others, such as myself. The amount of shooting I do is based on the TIME I have in which to do it. That changes little. Therefore I save LOADS of money by reloading. When I started 6 years or so ago that savings was about 75%; I suspect it would be a little less than that now.

Andy

[cp1969]

It's easier to find components than it is to find the exact ammo you're looking for.

In another thread, someone is looking for a .44 Mag, 240 gr @1000 fps load. No one, that I know of, makes it. Even if they did, your chances of finding any to buy are slim.

Reloading is the way to go, and your idea of starting with the target loads and using factory loads for defense is sound. But in no time you'll probably have complete confidence in your reloads for everything.

Casting saves a LOT of money. But there are lots of cast bullet vendors if you want to spare yourself the initial investment it takes to cast and the time it takes to do it. I enjoy it, but lots of people don't.

[RussellD]

Reloading is fun and habit forming hobby. Each level brings new challenges and rewards. Some say there are significant savings, others say you will shoot more. I like the independence of being able to shoot what I want, when I want. Last year during the "ammo shortage" I quietly reloaded for me and my two sons. We shot often and never worried about what was on the shelves at walmart.

I like being able load target loads for my guns to enjoy shooting them. I can load mild paper punching loads for outdoors, lead free rounds for indoor ranges and some hotter loads for shooting bowling pins.

At first it was about saving money, then about how many rounds per hour and in my final phase-precision loads for long range shooting.

My best advice, find a local mentor who has been loading for many years. Watch them closely and let them teach you. Work in clean organized environment free from distractions. Keep detailed notes. Enjoy yourself.

In short-What are you waiting for?

[ENGINE18]

Thanks for all your input. After a typical investment for a press and components, reloading with vendor-supplied .38 Special 148gr. WC, powder, and my brass, how many rounds till break even figuring $17.00 box/50 for WCs

[cp1969]

$17/50 sounds cheap, but that's $.34 per round.

Powder, at $20 per pound will cost you 1.5 cents. Primers, at $30/1000 will cost you 3 cents. Cast bullets, at $35/500 will cost you 7 cents. Your labor is free, right? That gives you a cost of 11.5 cents per round, provided that you already have the brass, a savings of 22.5 cents per round compared to factory ammo.

Now, divide the amount of money you are going to spend on reloading equipment by .225 to find the number of rounds you have to load to reach the break even point. After that, you are saving money. I think I reached my break even point sometime in 1970.

Example: Let's say you plan to spend $300 on reloading equipment. You would need to load 1334 rounds to break even.

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

Thanks for all your input. After a typical investment for a press and components, reloading with vendor-supplied .38 Special 148gr. WC, powder, and my brass, how many rounds till break even figuring $17.00 box/50 for WCs

Even at current component prices and buying commercial bullets you can easily load 50 rounds of .38 wad cutters for $6.00 not counting the cost of brass. That gives you a savings of around $11 a box.

How long it takes to break even will depend upon what reloader you buy. The more expensive progressives offer greater speed and high volume, the simple basic Lee hand loader offers low price but is very slow. Price range for equipment ranges for under $30 to over $600. You can get a good single or turret press kit for around $300.

[mkk41]

If you want to do lots of quality handgun ammo with a relatively low initial investment , get a Dillon Square Deal press. Ya can get the stuff to change calibers easy enough. They include a video to show you how to set up and get started.

[ENGINE18]

Thanks again. Nice calcs. That per/round cost was just what I was looking for, as was the $11.00 per box estimate. That and the abaility to "play" with different loads and reload for my 696 too, might have made the deal for me.

I've heard the Dillion Square Deal might just be the best all around press for someone like me. Now if I can just find someone to watch and learn!

[cp1969]

You can learn it alone; I did. Most of the good reloading manuals from bullet manufacturers and Lyman give step-by-step instructions and I'm pretty sure the Dillon will come with pretty good instructions, too. I highly recommend the Lyman manual (I have #49).

Welcome to reloading. It opens up a whole new world.

Go re-read my last post. I edited it to give an example.

[ArchAngelCD]

Once you really get into reloading you really won't save money but you will shoot a lot more for the money you spend.

Right now with current component prices I can load a box of 50 158gr LSWC .38 Special ammo for $4.96. I don't know what you intend on spending on your reloading equipment but if you spend $300 and the price of factory ammo is $17/50 you will pay for the equipment in less than 25 boxes of ammo. If you load more expensive .357 Magnum or really expensive .45 Colt ammo you will break even in a lot less time.

There are a lot of reasons to load your own ammo, price is only one of them...

[CGM]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

Thanks again. Nice calcs. That per/round cost was just what I was looking for, as was the $11.00 per box estimate. That and the abaility to "play" with different loads and reload for my 696 too, might have made the deal for me.

I've heard the Dillion Square Deal might just be the best all around press for someone like me. Now if I can just find someone to watch and learn!

The Dillon Square Deal is about the best reloader around. I have had two for over 20 years . I shoot very regularly and I have yet felt the need to upgrade.... In terms of watching and learning..... go to ultimatereloader.com and watch the videos. That will give you a clear idea of how the various machines work. Not too complicated....just make sure you follow a manual with regards to amount of powder and bullet weights. Always best to stay on the light end of the loads.

[ENGINE18]

And great info keeps on rolling! Thanks to all!

[snowman]

Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD

Once you really get into reloading you really won't save money but you will shoot a lot more for the money you spend.

ArchAngel: See my previous post. Your assertion is true only for some. How do you know it is true for the original poster?

Andy

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

1. Is it really cheaper to reload? If so how much?

As others have said it depends. You need to know how much and exactly what you are going to reload to determine what it's gonna cost you to reload a box of shells. Many here are quoting prices of reloading bullets they cast themselves from lead scrounged for nothing. The casting process is another investment in time and monies that must be considered, and not everybody has a option of free lead, most must buy it from someplace. Also many indoor and some outdoor ranges now have banned the use of pure lead bullets. If this is the case, then you must buy either jacketed or plated as I know of no-one that has the equipment available at home to produce these themselves. At some point in the near future I think you will see more restrictions put on lead bullets even for hunting. Something to consider before investing a lot in casting equipment. Also the quantity you buy components will determine the actual cost. An 8#jug of powder is generally 30% less per pound than buying it in a 1#jug. Same goes for bullets when buying per 1000 as opposed to buying 100 at a time. If one does not have the spare cash to buy in bulk and sit on the supplies, savings per round will not be what some here have mentioned.

Again, most of us that reload spend more on ammo than we did when all we shot was factory ammo. Shooting and reloading is addictive and like most other junkies, we need a bigger and better fix everytime to keep the same high.

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

2. Are conponents easy to find? Seems like they are a bit
scarce.

Components are harder to find than they were 3 years ago, but are easier to find than a year ago. Most reloaders are sitting on a bigger stash of components than they were 3 years ago also. The reloading bug has become pandemic and it caught many manufacturers and suppliers with their pants down. IMHO, Some shortages were created intentionally during the Obamma scare to justify high prices. This too will come to pass.

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

3. Anything else you would care to add.

Reloading is not only cost effective, but is a relaxing hobby for many of us. Not everybody needs to pump out 600 rounds an hour. I shoot approximately 500 rounds a month in the 6 different calibers I reload for. I do all of this on a Rockchukker. I have yet to run short of loaded ammo, but instead generally have to wait for range day for more empty brass. Even tho I reload, I still can only afford to spend so much a month on components......it don't make sense to spend the monies to have the capability to load 5000 rounds a month when I can only afford the components for 500. Something else one has to consider is the sundries that go along with reloading. The dedicated space for reloading, the bench and storage for powders/brass/bullets/primers. Heck, I bet I have over $100 invested in just plastic cartridge boxes to store my loaded ammo.

I'm not trying to burst any balloons here and am not trying to scare you away from reloading.....I'm just trying to be realistic. I'm not saying that folks are stretching the truth about reloading needs and costs, I'm just saying your costs/needs most likely will not be the same. Just as your reloads will shoot different in your guns as they do in mine.

[cp1969]

The OP asked about wadcutters, which was what I priced out.

Let's replace them with 158 Nosler JHP's at the going rate of $35/250, which doubles the bullet cost.

That brings us to roughly 18 cents per round, or $9 per box. Still just about half of the cost of factory ammo.

Of course, the cost of brass has not been taken into account, either. Let's say .38 brass lasts 20 loadings (I have some that has been shot many times more than that) and costs $70/500. That means brass costs not quite a penny per shot, bringing our final cost, excluding labor, to 19 cents per round or $9.50 per box.

That is where most analysis stops. But what if you're of the gilded class and don't want to be seen sitting at a press, by your ascot-wearing, tea-and-crumpets buddies, like common folk? Let's add labor into the mix.

What are we going to have to pay one of our beaters to sit at a Dillon press and load ammo, $15 per hour? Double it, say $30 per hour, just so we can be selective about who we hire and get good quality ammo. If he can load a shell every 5 seconds, that's 720 rounds per hour, or 4.2 cents per round. Maybe that's too many; let's make his quota 500 rounds per hour, or 6 cents per round.

We are now up to $0.25 per round, or $12.50 per box.

Maybe a penny more for powder because 158 gr JHP's need to be propelled by a different powder charge than HBWC's. $13 per box.

Did I leave anything out? OMG, I forgot to amortize the investment.

[PDL]

As you can see from most of the posts, you're per round price will be reduced. Whether that leads to a savings is pretty much up to you. After a while you'll find the 'need' for accesories that you didn't 'need' when you started. You may also find yourself upgrading initial equipment to bigger, better, faster stuff. The point is you'll be shooting rounds that are designed for your gun and your specific application, rather than one size fits all. It just happens to be an additional bonus that the rounds cost less.

[kennyb]

i think i broke even after reloading 100 500 mag.rounds!

[RidgwayCO]

Let's see... just two quick examples of how reloading can save you money.

1) A 250gr Keith bullet at 1000 fps out of the .44 Special. A big mail order outfit was recently showing these (from Buffalo Bore) for $1.44 per round. I can easily put them together for less than 25 cents each (save almost 83%).

2) Since you like full wadcutter bullets, how about a Penn Bullet 185gr lead full wadcutter at 800 fps out of the .44 Special. You can't find these commercially anywhere at any price (at least I can't), but I can load them for less than 20 cents each.

There are a ton of other examples, but I think you get the point. If I didn't reload, I don't think I'd enjoy the .44 Special nearly as much.

You can put together a quality reloading setup for less than $350, including a Lee Classic Turret press and Pro Auto Disk powder measure. If all you were shooting was the 250gr Keith load above, you'd pay for your reloading setup in less than 300 rounds (that's only 6 boxes of 50).

[semperfi71]

engine18,

Look around [gunshows, classifieds, ebay, gun-auctions] for used but good reloading equipment. No need to buy new unless you are loading for an arcane caliber.

Also, if you are only going to shoot a couple of boxes a session and are never going to get into serious competition, consider a single-stage press instead of a progressive. They are easy to use and learn on.

If you do go single-stage make sure its an "o" frame and not a "c". The difference being an "o" frame is a circle so to speak of steel and is stout for any reloading job. An example is an RCBS Rockchucker.

Good luck.

[ENGINE18]

Wow, I'm getting excited just thinking about it! I doubt I shoot 250 rounds per month and mostly WCs at that. It sounds like I may save some $$ at least in the beginning. (I wonder if I'll still have time to fish? And the beat goes on. Thanks everyone!

[Model29Lover]

The square Deal press is good if you never see yourself reloading rifle rounds, but 10 bucks more (if you buy it new) and you can get a 550B, and have the option of loading rifle rounds too!!!!

[mkk41]

The more ya shoot , the more ya reload , the more ya save , so the more ya can shoot , yada , yada , yada!

For some , reloading is about nothing more but saving money. That's part of it. Do ya really need to be throwing premium jacketed hollow points at paper targets? Can ya afford to? I shoot thousands of quality hard cast lead bullets per year. When ya find the right load , they can be more accurate than most jacketed bullets.

There's also great satisfaction in shooting small groups or good scores with ammo ya made yerself.

Reloading has become a hobby in itself for me. An addictive hobby. I have a room full of reloading equipment and several presses. I also have a fairly large gun collection and shoot quite a few pistols and rifles for which ammo is hard to find or just not available. I also load for friends who have guns in obsolete calibers.

A friend of mine shoots thousands of .38 Special and .45 Auto match rounds a year. He has 2 Dillon Square Deals set up , 1 in each caliber , for almost 20 years. Probably hasn't had to readjust either in years. He even lets his kids (under his supervision) use them to make ammo for him.

[jwr0201]

1. Is it really cheaper to reload? If so how much?
2. Are conponents easy to find? Seems like they are a bit
scarce.

There a lot of things that will affect your cost. First, there is the start up cost of loading tools & equipment. After that, your two most costly elements are the brass and bullets. You are ahead of the game here, since you saved your brass. Bullets - if you buy in small quantities, they are higher in cost. When you start buying in 500's or more, the unit cost goes way down. Primers and powder are only pennies. I figure that I save about half on the cost of reloading 38 & 357 mag. This is with jacketed premium Hornady bullets. you can also save a lot more by going with other brands, lead bullets, or casting your own.
As far as cost of presses, there is a wide variety and price points. Brands are whloe 'nother discussion - everyone has their favorite! Some like Chevy, some like Toyota!
Good luck & jump into it!
RR

[FrankD45]

All good information here. If you are interested in figuring your cost and pay back, I have an Excel spreadsheet that does it all for you. You plug in the variables, like powder cost and bullets and such, and it does all of the calculations for you. It also has some preset loading labels that are very useful. Send me a request by email and I will reply with a copy of teh sheet. All you need to view it is MS Office or a stand alone copy of Excel.

I hope that helps,

Frank

[brokenprism]

I'm piggybacking on the thread because I didn't want you guys answering the same questions twice. I plan to reload for a .44 mag and maybe .45 ACP. I took the first advice -- bought Lyman #48. Had to go looking for it, because of some things I read about the 49, but I digress.

I have my eye on a single-stage Rockchucker, and I'll let the Lyman book fill in the many blanks in my knowledge when it gets here.

I read about so many different .44 loads -- everything from different powders to primers, etc. -- and I'll try not to let my head spin for now. I'll be back for advice, though, about clean mid-range loads.

[caribouhunter]

I think that equating reloading into a financial decision is a wrong approach. Reload because you like to shoot. Reload because you enjoy having another hobby. Reload so you can get more into your shooting hobby. Reload so when the next "ammo crisis" hits you have powder, bullets, primers, cases in your inventory so the crisis does not exist.

I figure at least a 3 to 5 year payback when you are honest with ALL the additional purchases (ammo cans, reloading bench, tumbler, etc) Remember year 1 and 2 will cost you more since everything you buy will be an upfront cost. The more you buy, the cheaper things are (per unit cost) BUT you will spend more money to get the cost savings by buying in bulk.

The nice bonus of reloading is that I was able to get hit with the .41 mag bug and since I was already reloading 9mm, .45acp, 38 specials, the additional cost to go over to the 41 mag is minimal. So as your shooting desires change over the years, the reloading can adapt to them.

Living in Michigan I use winters to replenish to stock pile. No trips to Wallmart hoping they have something in stock so I can shoot. I always have ammo, so I shoot when I want any time of the year.

On the other hand if you get easily distracted, can not focus, have no sense of safety - stay away from the reloading bench. Even one bad load could cause damages and costs that could take away from any savings possibilities.

[ENGINE18]

I sure like this place!

[2hawk]

I'd thought I'd cast another vote for the Dillon 550. I started my reloading career with one back in 1990, and have since loaded 10's of thousands of rounds. My breakeven, iirc, was at about the 2000 round mark.

Just started reloading for my AR's a few years ago, and was so thankful for having the 550- it is a very versatile maching. Progressives can be run one round at a time if you are concerned/learning about process, and I did not have any difficulty at all learning on one. No mentor either, just RTFM and figure out how it all works together.

The thing that really surprised me when I started was how much better quality my home-rolled ammo was compared to the factory fodder I had been buying. That was the point of no return for me, and as long as shooting is my hobby, reloading will be too.

[blastfact]

Shooting and reloading go hand in hand.

[Roadranger]

I've been reloading since 1967 and love it. I've helped several folks get started over the years. I've used just about everything ever made, including single stage, turret, and progressive. The 2 calibers you mentioned are as good as it gets for reloading, particularly the 44 special. I would suggest without reservation, to start with the Dillon 550. I know it's costly, but you're going to wind up there anyway if you really get into it. I have 3 of them, one has close to 200,000 rounds on it. I can load 100 rds of 44 special in about 9 minutes, ot you can atke your time and load one round at a time. The good news is that primers may be fixing to return. My distributor(sales Guy) called to today and offered me 20,000 WW pistol primers at wholesale. I said send them. I must warn you though, reloading is addictive and the Blue Press is the pusher. Bob!!

[matsu]

Don't do it's a horrible hobby full of frustration and will cause you to spend more money then ever before always broke trying to scrape up a few more dollars to buy more bullets ,primer and powder been at it since '69

[michael thornton]

What you waiting on? and go ahead and get you some casting stuff too, i enjoy it alot!

[semperfi71]

caribouhunter is deadon.

Reload because it interests you not to save money because you won't.

I equate my reloading to fly-tying. Each revolver has a certain bullet that I shoot out of it. I add a powder combination that will provide the accuracy and velocity that I want. I may not hunt with my revolvers but some are loaded with hunting loads, others with self-defense loads, and others with target/plinking loads.

I enjoy concocting the most accurate and the most powerful loads for each gun. I may not ever use them except to target or plink but they are ready for what they were intended for.

So I customize my loads as one ties flies to customize his/her fishing potential.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by snowman

ArchAngel: See my previous post. Your assertion is true only for some. How do you know it is true for the original poster?

Andy

Andy,
I know a lot of shooters who reload and they all end up shooting more for the money they spend instead of actually saving money no matter what they originally intended on doing. Every one of them thought they would save money but they ended up shooting 4X or 5X as much for the same price. I don't understand why you seemed to take offense at what I said? I'm sure most of the shooters here who reload will agree with what I said, of course not all, but those are the exception to the rule.

[Skip Sackett]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

1. Is it really cheaper to reload? If so how much?

This really depends on your shooting habits and personal money handling "trends". If you shoot once a month now and after reloading still only shoot once a month, yes, you will save money. If you are like the rest of us when we started reloading our trips to the range increased dramatically. Say I have $100 a month of disposable income that currently goes to store bought ammo, once I start reloading, that doesn't stop, I just spend it on reloading ammo instead of purchased stuff. So the answer to this question is: Yes and No! (Hope this helps!)

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

2. Are conponents easy to find? Seems like they are a bit
scarce.

Currently, its getting better. Can you say its good yet? No. Take some advice in this area. 2 things. One, get into casting too. After you purchase lead or wheel weights you will always have bullets regardless of what the supply chain does. Secondly, purchase in quantities. Store up or stockpile when there is an abundance of components. When to do this depends on a little foresight. Like what I did for example. About January of 2008 it dawned on my that there was going to be an election in November. I did a little political information gathering and came up with it wouldn't be a gun friendly administration that would be getting elected, probably. I thought, hum, how will I get components to reload if they ban them? Now, there wasn't any shortage at that time and my primers cost me $17.90/1000 and I bought 20,000. Still got a bunch of them left.

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

3. Anything else you would care to add.

Thanks in advance

Start today. Don't wait another second to start getting the things you need to reload ammo. Soon the cost and taxes on factory bought ammo is going to be so high that only millionaires (exaggeration) will be able to buy it. Nothing is getting cheaper and our pay is not going up. Plus, we may need it for real should we be invaded. Which is already happening across our southern border!

[walnutred]

But then you are looking a 38 Special, which is supposedly easier to find than other ammo. Right now the pistol calibers I reload for include: 32 ACP, 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 WCF, 8mm Lebel Ordinance, 38 S&W, 38 Special, 9x18, 9x19, 38 Super, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. When you start throwing any caliber the big box stores don't sell into the mix the Return on Investment is a lot more favorable.

Then you get into the question of availability. Let's say that Saturday morning I woke up at 7am and decided I wanted to take any of those calibers to the range, but discovered I had no ammo available. I could easily load up enough ammo to be at the range when it opened at 9AM and not miss breakfast. If I was dependent on store bought I could not say that. The one change I made in my reloading is I used to buy primers in individual trays of 100. Then I went to buying bricks of 500. Finally I started buying in sleeves of 5000. It's not that my reloading has increased that much, I just got tired of not finding primers when I wanted them.

[ENGINE18]

You people are awesome! Will be modifying the "spare" room very soon. I sure would like to see some of your reloading set-ups; benches rooms, areas, whatever. I'm thinking of something on the compact side just to get started. Thanks again!

[PDL]

Originally Posted by ENGINE18

You people are awesome! Will be modifying the "spare" room very soon. I sure would like to see some of your reloading set-ups; benches rooms, areas, whatever. I'm thinking of something on the compact side just to get started. Thanks again!

You don't have to go nuts with a reloading area, epecially at first. You need to have a stable, solid platform for your press. A clear un-obstucted work area. Level surface to insure your scales read correctly. Decent lighting. Safe storage for your components. The main thing is to keep distractions to a minimum. Don't put the reloading gear in the TV room in other words.

[ENGINE18]

Shopping for stuff now!

[wallacem]

Been reloading for 45 years, and reccomend it highly. It is not for everyone, but I would not trade it for anything. Wallacem in Georgia