Do you size new SW brass or just bell the mouth & load?

It gets sized. As long as I have to run it through the primer station, I might as well size it on the same stroke. Also sizing helps to iron out any dings, dents and oval case mouths, then on to the charging/expanding station, etc.

Well since new brass doesn't need de-primed I skip the first station and go right to the priming/belling station with new brass on my Dillion SD.

I run it through the sizing die. I have seen a few out of round cases and it doesn't hurt doing it. I am working on a progressive press so it doesn't bother me to size it because the upstroke primes the case. I can see if you are using a single stage press you may want to skip sizing the case but I like to size my rifle brass when new on my single stage. I wouldn't worry about pistol brass I guess but like I said, I size because of the progressive.

It needs to go through the sizing die. There's no guarantee that it's round when you get it.

yes it needs to be sized i have loaded it out of the bag but its not a good idea

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

With new brass , I always size , trim to .005 under nominal length , chamfer and then flare & load. Fresh virgin brass is close , but never perfect.

I size my new brass before loading it the first time, because I'm going to be using that same resizing die on that same piece of brass for its second loading, its third loading, etc. Uniformity in reloading is never a bad idea.

My dad tried to load new Winchester 44 mag brass and the bullets fell into the cases. I had to size them all for him.

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Lynnie, Professional Pest

Good advice from all. If you look carefully at the case mouth you will probably notice that it is out of round. I full length size straight wall cases and neck size rifle cases since they often suffer from being out of round too.

I have never sized new straight wall brass, and never had a problem. The belling operation makes it round. I have a single stage press.

And that's tens of thousands of rounds. I do trim it. As for Joni's problem I just tried it with FIRED brass in 10mm and .44 mag and I had to push the bullet to get it to go in. Both cases were Starline.

I do exactly the same thing.

All my new brass gets sized, and trimmed to uniform length, deburred, chamfered (excepting auto cases) and flared before loading.

I've run Dillon 550 then 650 presses the past nearly 30 years.

Never had need with doing 'trim' on pistol calibers of any sort. Given the choice on 550 press of insert into station 1 process or not, or the 650 station 1 automatically positions to size case, there is no easy alternative. And belling is normal part of station 2, done on the upstroke after primer set, intimately accomplished as the powder drops through the belling/powder drop die.

Never had the single stage set up. Yes I size the new brass of any kind.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

What is this "new" brass you speak of??

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Still Running Against the Wind

Because EVERYTHING made by man has tolerances, new brass HAS GOT TO BE run through the sizing die to make sure the proper bullet pull is achieved, period.

I know that not everyone does it and they don't have problems. Using that analogy try this: Not everyone that handles a rattlesnake gets bit the first time either.

No, brass is run in lots. One may be on the top of the tolerance and act like Joni (and I) has experienced. Some may get by this time and next too. Let me give you this guarantee, buy new brass every time you load and you WILL run into the problem at some point.

Safe and not sorry, size it.

Nobody mentions headspace, auto loader brass may need to be trimmed to length, but not much reason to trim revolver cases. Special length brass will work in magnums and its .125 out. As far as case sizing I never do, the belling and crimp process will take care of any out of round in the area of the opening and the lee factory crimp die, if you use one, also does post sizing. But if you want to resize it's your time. The equipment used to produce the brass is much better quality than that $1200 machine you are resizing with.

I trim my cases so that they all crimp the same.

Smith Crazy, I guess you size your bullets too. (Why are they any different than the case?) And check those cases for wall thickness?

I've been doing this for over forty years and still waiting for the first problem. Not that it's the right way or anything, but it has worked for me so far.

As a matter of fact I do, but then again, I cast all of mine!

I find it hard to believe that you have run 10,000's of new brass even over 40 years, but hey, whatever.

I'm not going to argue, do what you want. I have yet to trim one straight walled pistol case. They just don't make them too long. It's called economics. I have had bullets fall right into a case as Joni stated though. Starline too.

Do what you want, be happy. It just doesn't work that way for everyone. What I and others suggest will, period.

OK, now my veracity is being questioned. Well I haven't actually counted them, but about two years ago I got into a 10mm faze, and I have three thousand cases for it. (1000 Starline, 2000 Top Brass) About 2 grand of them have been loaded. I have 1000 .45 Colt cases, I have no idea how many .44, .41. 357 mag stuff I have. Then there's .45 ACP, but a lot of that was surplus govt. stuff, but a lot of it I bought. Same for .38 spl. I have a couple thousand I bought but most was donated (once fired) by the USAF. I only have 80 .444 Marlin cases.

I have used Rem, Winchester, Norma, Speer, S&W(which I doubt is S&W, like Nosler is not Nosler) a ton of Starline and Top Brass and some others I don't remember. Maybe I don't have over twenty thousand and one (which would be over "tens of thousands") but if I emptied out all these cardbord boxes I bet I would. Let's say I only have ten thousand cases, that would have been ten thousand wasted cycles on the press.

(S&W was once fired when I got it, so it doesn't count, I only have 200 any way.)

I am happy thank you, and I'm glad I did not waste man-years sizing all that stuff and then cleaning the lube off. (I lube my cases that I size in carbide dies. I also clean the primer pockets, which I understand you Dillion guys don't. Wanna see the crud I get out of them?) I have to admit that I have been known to buy new brass rather than redo the used stuff. Not at today's prices, but it is a lot easier when you want to shoot.

The next time you get a case that a bullet falls into please send it to me, I would like to see it. I will refund your postage and send you a good case in return.

And if a bullet did fall in a case it would be noticed and selected out long before it got put in a gun (which I doubt it would fit,) so what's the problem? And in case you don't know it, sizing brass is not good for it, but hey, whatever. Some bullets seat easier than others but how does one know that it's not due to undersize, or case wall thickness?

I do not trim semi-auto cases (that headspace on the case mouth) but the next time you load up a bunch of new revolver cases look at them in the loading block and you will notice all the different lenghts and therefor different crimp levels. And you are the one concerned with bullet pull. I'm not worried that any of them are too long, I just like uniform roll crimp levels.

I neck size my bottle neck cases. (When they are new.)

I beg to differ , but nothing could be further from the truth!

Accurate , reliable revolver ammo needs a consistant crimp , which demands a consistant case length. Especially with magnum loads and slow , hard to light powders like H-110 , W-296 , 2400 and the like.

And if ya shoot .38 special 148gr wadcutters and expect match winning accuracy , ya better have a consistant case length and crimp.


These are some of the differences between handloaders looking to make superior quality , match grade ammunition and reloaders only looking to save a buck making 'blammo'.

+ tens of thousands

Given the various points of view, here's a little story:

I know guys that measure volumetric and case wall variations, FMJ as well as cast lead weights-to-the-.01 gram, hand lap case mouths, the phase of the moon etc etc etc.

One of them, an obsessive-compulsive machinist exactitudinarian, took issue with my IHMSA loads that I had done none of the above. He challenged by then-novice thinking on 100 yd accuracy. In 308 caliber, he chose at random 10 of my loads, 10 factory, and 10 of his own meticulous compositions.

Firing 1 sighter and 3 groups of 3 in each, in that limited test, my own IHMSA loads grouped tighter than factory, and equal to his own.

Another buddy with similar OC precision rifle background, spent 30 minutes telling me his routine for loading his 38 and 45 acp hand gun rounds. He was appalled at what he considered my laxity in ammo building. Since he was on the state champ sheriff's team, I appreciated his commentary. However, he admitted in a big match the wind was blowing and somehow managed to give him poor groups on the 38 while introducing enough sand into his 1911 (highly tuned at that) it stopped cycling during a critical stage and he lost points.

The recognition reloading is as much an individual preference as what one likes for breakfast/etc helps to not become overbearing on what we demand from the next reloader.

I've found through experience, that other factors generally of my own failing, such as decreasing vision, flawed sight alignment, poor presentation, the basic
AMU guidelines, all contribute far more to my group size than the alleged flaws in my 'reloads'.

Granted there likely is a qualitative difference in 'target quality' ammo from the stuff I use.

The types of competition in which I participate do not demonstrate any advantage to certain meticulous protocols. Plus or minus .1 grain in powder or projectile isn't what makes the difference in my use, nor +/- .01" length of case. If I were a 100 yd precision rifle guy I'd have different needs.

Straight wall revolver case trim is one that has not been needed. And IMHO taper crimp serves well for the types of accuracy my auto pistol requires.

There's always room for improvement. There's also room to recognize there's more than one right way to achieve a goal.

Those meticulous buddies of mine, will as often as not, produce a group that does not reflect the skill and attention their recipe required. But that's THEIR choice.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The OP asked only one question. Do you size NEW brass.

My previous post answers that question from years of experience. The OCD actions of some are not the norm and show how little some folks actually KNOW.

In order to attain the correct bullet pull for consistent ammunition, sizing new brass is not an added step, it is a necessary one.

The crimp is of little consequence if the bullet is too loose in the case to start with. The ONLY way to have consistency in your ammunition is to make them all the same size, each time. If that means benchrest shooting, then they are fire formed to the chamber. In handgun ammunition that means ran through the sizing die every time. Bullet pull is much more important than amount or type of crimp employed.

Longevity is of little consequence as far as reloading/handloading goes. I know folks that have done things for a long, long time. Only one problem, they've done it wrong the whole time!

Size your new brass friend, it just doesn't take that long and it will give you much more consistent ammunition.
FWIW

No, I do not size new straight wall brass, never have and never will and back in the day when I could see I won more than one match. And I hate to say this buy my .38spl scores improved when I started trimming.

Since you're so obsessed with "bullet pull" please tell me how crimp does not affect it. I find as much as a .010 difference in Starline brass (which is supposed to be the good stuff,) that is enough to put the case mouth in the crimp grove or not. While I'm at it trimming also squares up and smooths the case mouth, making the crimp uniform. (Bullet pull anyone?) Do you shoot a revolver? Are your chambers all exactly the same?

I hand seat my bullets (single stage Rockchucker) and, like I said, have NEVER had one go past the bell part of the case mouth. I actively load for nine pistol calibers. I find that "loose bullet" comment more amusing than pertinent. I have quite a few thousand rounds of loaded ammo here, lot's of it in new brass, that you can come check for loose bullets if you want. Actually I guess I already did that when I put the bullets in the case, although I did not think about it that way.

Under your theory, once fired (and resized) ammo would be more accurate (I guess that's what you're maintaining) than new brass. I do not find that to be the case. The next time I dig the old Ransom rest out I will do a test to see if I can tell a difference.

And I still don't see how you get that great bullet pull with out checking case wall thickness.

I used to weigh both bullets and cases but I could not tell the difference and gave it up years ago, except for some rifle stuff. Nosler "seconds" shoot just as well as the really expensive stuff. They are "seconds" because they are more than 0.10 (I think that's right.) grain + or - what they should be.

Don't reload much anymore. But sizing new brass is , in my opinion, a large factor in why handloads/reloads are more accurate than most factory ammo. I have found significant differences in diameter of unsized straight wall cases; hence there would be differences in bullet pull and mebbe case volume.

Regards,

Dyson

I don't think that's true anylonger but let's say it is. So the factory sells ammo in which the bullet fell into the case!!!!!

You know the sizing die only goes down to the shell holder, how does a misguided lamb like me get this stuff to chamber?

OK, I just went and got a box of .44 mag ammo that has been reloaded twice. It is all .451. I have a tray of brand new Starline .44 mag brass that is already to load. Guess what? The Starline is .449 to .450. The sizing die I don't think would have done a thing, except get them greasy. (That was about ten cases of each, plus or minus. The SAMMI thing according to my Speer 13 is .4560.

NOBODY has addressed case wall thickness. I also think that seating depth can affect case capacity more than anything else. In long cases typically used in revolvers (.357 etc.) it doesn't matter much. In things like 9mm it's a different story.

I've been doing this for a lifetime (I'll be 68 in two weeks) and I'm not changing now because some pontificator says I should. What I do works for me. You do whatever you want.

DING-DING-DING-
We have a winner!

People are complaining about the volume over here.

Discussion is fine, folks. Just don't expect to make any converts to the ONE true path.
Take what you want, and leave the rest.....

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Look at the bright side, we did learn some new words!

Pontifactor= : to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way

Just wish folks would learn meanings too!

I agree, do as you want!

I size and trim my new brass, why not it just takes a little bit of time that I would other wise spend watching tv, surfin forums, or some other non constructive activity.

SWID, why do you lube pistol brass when using carbide dies?

Because it makes it much easier. I didn't used to and somebody suggested I try it and I was amazed. It really does not take any effort, which means that it's a lot easier on the brass. And with todays lubes that you can spray on lubing is not as much of a mess as it used to be. I use Dillion's mostly, but I have others.

Try it with just one case to see for yourself.

I'll give it a try, I also use dillons case lube got one of them half and half cases of lube and pollish I guess I should start usin some of it lol.

re: case lube

I too find a little bit of case lube, even with carbide dies, eases the effort in straight wall pistol cases on a Dillon 650.

I use it not because I'm convinced the process "needs" it, but because it makes my efforts of running the handle a lot easier!

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Ditto. Not every time, but if I am going to do a bunch at one time, I give them a shot of Hornady spray case lube. Helps the effort on the handle go down!

A BIG "Thanks a bunch to everyone bigtime"!!!
This has been a learning experince for me & i feel i know a littlemore about new brass now..
A New question.......How many reloads should i expect with the new brass and when should i toss it?
I had a bad brass experiance years ago from reloading brass to many times with my 41magnum S&W 57& bluedot,,,,the case cracked and i was ok,nothing serious,just had to beat my ejector against a tree to unload the spent brass..it just made me leary of shooting them too many times,,Iam thinking 4-5 times max..then toss?Is this what you guys do?Thanks again for the great info!Bigtime!!

First of all I would not beat the extractor against anything. Take the cylinder out of the gun and lay it down on something solid with space for the stuck brass to come out. Like a board with a hole in it. Then use some solid object, like a punch, to force the case out of the gun.

I have some .38 spl brass (a lot if it nickel) that I stopped counting the loads in years ago. A lot of it was shot with 2.8 grains of Bullseye, which is a light load.

I once, while being a bit dumb, split a .41 mag case on the first load. It was a bit of a hot load.

I don't have a set amount of time before I discard a case. I pay attention to things like if the primer come out too easy, inspect each case when I clean the primer pocket. If you buy good brass (new stuff, I really don't know where you would get "bad" brass) and keeps your loads reasonable you should get at least five to ten loads out of magnum brass. I have some .357s that are in the teens.

I have some brass that is older than my 32 year old son! It was shot in competition and I have no idea how many times it has been loaded. At the lower end of things, they will last a long long time. Another thing that causes premature case death is crimp. Seems that the case mouth seems to be the place where most failures occur.

I used to load my 38spl PPC loads with no crimp at all. All cases were run through the sizing die, bullet seated to show about 1/32" of the last driving band and the case closed back to straight. I guarantee that they will shoot better than you can. Only way to know for sure though is to use a mechanical rest.

In my .45 acp brass, I have one stamped L C 52. That's Lake City, 1952. How many times do you reckon it's been loaded?