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Old 06-30-2010, 10:49 AM
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Red face Hodgdon Tite Group Question

I have a full 1# container of Tite Group (TG) that was on the back shelf but can not find loading data for it other than whats on the lable. I want to load .38 special loads with 158gr and 170 gr FMJ bullets. Front label says max load for 158gr cast LSWC is 3.8grs of TG. Would reducing this max load by 10% for a FMJ bullet work? Would like your thoughts and any load data for TG that you may have.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:08 AM
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Everything you need...

Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People


Buck
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:17 PM
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Well, more precisely, here:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

There are 12 different bullet weight recipes available on their data website.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:13 PM
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You will find all the data you need on the Hodgdon website.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:51 PM
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Good afternoon
I totaly agree to contact Hodgdons.. you can also Call toll free and talk to an actual person... well last time I called was in december so I assume Tech people still hang about the freindly confines.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:59 PM
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Thanks guys! I did just that and got what I need. Good data. This site is awsum!!!
Jim
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Old 07-07-2010, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta-419 View Post
I have a full 1# container of Tite Group (TG) that was on the back shelf but can not find loading data for it other than whats on the lable. I want to load .38 special loads with 158gr and 170 gr FMJ bullets. Front label says max load for 158gr cast LSWC is 3.8grs of TG. Would reducing this max load by 10% for a FMJ bullet work? Would like your thoughts and any load data for TG that you may have.




Hello Jim
I have used about Five Pounds of Tight Group in the past Five years. It is super clean and very accurate, but I must Caution you on your dispensing of it. Be certain your Powder drop or method of dispensing it is very close in Measurement. This Powder is a wonderful powder, but as you soon will see it takes very Little in any load it is used in, but can Build pressure quickly if over dispensed. I would Not suggest Hot Roding it, as I have seen some Guns come apart from Dare Devil re-loaders going above and beyond the recommended dispersing of the powder. It is a very cheap powder to use as it does not take much to load right but too much will take a gun apart in a heart beat. I have not had any issues with it, but have seen guns Blown apart from it over careless dispensing of the powder. I always check the Powder dump, against my digital scale reading ever third round and do a good visual before seating any bullets on top of it. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:15 PM
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Has anyone else experienced erratic charge weights with this powder? Got some recently and have had difficulty getting consistent charge weights with three different measures - A Lyman 55, a Redding, and the one on my Dillon 450. Have checked with two different electronic scales, same results. Trying to throw a load of 6.2 grains for a cowboy/action level load in .44 magnum. Help?
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:49 PM
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I'm a slow meticulas kind of reloader that measures each load on an electronic scale and I never reload more than 50 rounds in a sitting. Most of the time not that much. Still use the old Lee press from 30 years ago. Its good to know that this is hot stuff and unforgiving. Thanks for the headsup.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:33 AM
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Titegroup is one of those powders that measures VERY well (small grained ball powder). If you are having problems with consistent "drops" then either something is wrong with your powder measure or in your operation of it.

This is NOT meant as an "in your face" post, but a suggestion meant to be helpful in locating the cause of inconsistent charges.

Titegroup is fast burning (just one notch slower than Bullseye on the powder burn chart) so think of it as a clean burning, consistent measuring powder and you'll be all right.

It is meant for light target and "standard" loads. Medium and heavy loads require another powder.

When loading light target loads in large capacity cases (.357 Magnum, .44 Special/Magnum, or .45 Colt) it has the very real advantage of being "position insensitive". It gives consistent ballistics whether the small charge is forward against the bullet or back against the primer.

The only negative factor is that a target level charge will take up very little space in the case and you MUST watch closely to avoid double charging. This is little different from Bullseye (to mention a very old but useful powder that was the previous standard for a target load powder).

FWIW
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:49 AM
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I think you'll find that most powder measures don't like the small charges used with Titegroup, especially if it has a "universal" drum installed. I found Titegroup to be very inconsistent in the 5.0 gr range.


All weights were taken after filling the hopper of the Redding #3 three quarters full and cycling 10 times to settle the powder.
You can see SR4756 suffered the same problem at lower weights, but leveled out nicely above 8.0 gr, not being much worse than H110. Of course, SR4756 is a flake powder, unlike the rest of those that were tested.

BTW, my scale does measure to .02 gr, unlike most digital scales used for handloading.

Last edited by Paul5388; 07-08-2010 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Titegroup is one of those powders that measures VERY well (small grained ball powder).
This is my experience with it also. It is extremely consistent through a Dillon, giving pistol loads with single-digit SD.

If you are using a drum-type powder measure, perhaps you need the small drum to go with the small Titegroup charges. This is a common problem with any type of powder using charges too small for the drum.

Last edited by OKFC05; 07-08-2010 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:15 AM
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Well, I was using the small metering bar on the Dillon and tried both the smallest bar and the 2nd bar on the Lyman 55. My old Redding powder measure has been the most consistent I have ever used, and it didn't do any better. I dunno. Got some work to do, obviously.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:06 AM
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Check your method of dispensing powder, AND check your digital scale. Except for lab quality digital scales, they are accurate to + - .1gr, and can vary from temp changes (AC turns on) slight breezes and/or their little computer chip brains just go crazy. Both myself and many friends have had digitals go wonky on us.

Titegroup meters very consistently. I doubt that any quality measure would have a problem with it.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6GUNSONLY View Post
Has anyone else experienced erratic charge weights with this powder? Got some recently and have had difficulty getting consistent charge weights with three different measures - A Lyman 55, a Redding, and the one on my Dillon 450. Have checked with two different electronic scales, same results. Trying to throw a load of 6.2 grains for a cowboy/action level load in .44 magnum. Help?
HOW erratic? A grain? Half a grain? A tenth?
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:50 AM
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I load Titegroup in 44 Special, and have use it in 38 & 45 but like 231 better in those loads. I have no problem with powder drop accuracy. I use an old (late 70's) RCBS Uniflow. Years ago I read articles about the person being the control for powder measure accuracy. How you move the handle, and do you "bump" it against the stop "consistently". The consistency being the key. I can measure every load I throw, and it will be within a half a tenth of a grain. Possibly over 30 years of moving the handle of the same measure the same way thousands of times has added to my consistency.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:28 AM
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One thing I have noticed with titegroup is that static electricity and high humidity can cause problems. Humidity can cause clumping and static electricity on plastic parts of powder measures/dispensers can cause powder to stick to the surfaces which will increase variability. I use my RCBS 1500 dispenser/balance to measure every charge. But then I do not shoot thousands of rounds a year, maybe 100-200 per month.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:11 PM
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Hey Jim,
Charges were varying .2 to as much as .4 +/- to the desired charge. I'm gonna check with the old balance beam scale, maybe it is just a matter of the digital scales, but having tried two different scales, I was thinking it was the measuring.

H. Richard,
I hear what you're saying, and do believe operator consistency is key. That said, I'm not exactly new at this, and haven't had this problem before. The new factor here I guess is the digital scales, so that's kinda what I'm suspecting now.

Thanks to all for your input.

Ken
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:19 PM
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If your digital scale came with a plastic pan, replace it with a metal one. My repeatability problem was solved by doing this.

I've not had this problem, but some folks have reported fluorescent lights causing variations in digital scale readings.

Buck
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:18 PM
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Well mine both have metal pans, and I don't have flourescent lights. ???
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:30 AM
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I would suggest using a check weight and weighing it ten times in succession to see it it holds its value each time. Some digitals aren't worth what was paid for them in terms of repeatability.

I did a pretty good bit of shopping before I bought my new scale. I settled on a 1 mg scale (.015 gr) due to price and size. I use M3 weight standards to check accuracy and repeatability and also used them on my Ohaus 505. It's approaching 40 years old and still produces good accuracy within its limitations.

Don't use your fingers on your check weights. Cotton gloves or tweezers are the only accepted methods, if you want the weight to continue to be accurate. Keep the weights in a covered container to keep dust and debris off of them. Remember, digital scales round off their results, so you aren't necessarily getting the real weight.

This is the scale I use and I keep it out of drafts and on an anti-vibration pad, but insect spray used on red wasps is rough on the dust cover.

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Old 07-09-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6GUNSONLY View Post
Has anyone else experienced erratic charge weights with this powder? Got some recently and have had difficulty getting consistent charge weights with three different measures - A Lyman 55, a Redding, and the one on my Dillon 450. Have checked with two different electronic scales, same results. Trying to throw a load of 6.2 grains for a cowboy/action level load in .44 magnum. Help?
I have used a lot of titegroup for cowboy in .44 mags. from a lee turret. Throws very consistent. I use 4.0g though with a 180g. RNFP. Gives about 650fps out of a 4.5" vaquero. Also have used quite a bit of TrailBoss, about the same weight. Got to keep that recoil down. One issue I did have though is the brass not expaning enough to seal in my 1894 Marlin lever, and some of the gas following the extractor groove back and blowing into my eyes. Seem to happen a lot with the marlins though, had it happen in other calibers with light loads. Also makes the brass hot.
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357 magnum, 44 magnum, bullseye, colt, extractor, primer, rcbs, universal, vaquero

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