Bore diameter of .32-20 S&w vs. Marlin 1894cl

[Smithhound]

I own both and have several moulds that I want to use for both. One I've got in particular is an RCBS .32-98-SWC, it throws a bullet .316 as cast. I thought that the bore diameter for .32-20 was closer to .312. No way will this bullet size down to .312/311, I think the lubrisizer will snap before that happens and I know the bullet shouldn't be taken down more than .002 in any case.
Am I off on the bore diameter of .32-20? I haven't slugged the barrel of either firearm so i don't know for sure what either are, I'm just looking for general standards of bore size for this caliber.
RD

[Skip Sackett]

RD,
I hate to inform you but, if they are the same as their bigger caliber brothers, your Marlin is going to be oversize in the bore.

With lead bullets, at decent velocities you are going to have those bullets at as cast sizes anyway. I got rid of a 44Mag mould because I couldn't get it to cast big enough for my Marlin 1894.

It worked fine for my M629 Classic.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that each firearm, regardless of caliber, is an individual and should be treated as such. If it were me, I'd slug the Marlin. Depending on the type of rifling you have in your model, you may have to keep the velocity down a bit to get decent accuracy.

What I did too was go to a bullet with more bearing surface in the 44Mag. It is a lighter bullet but has a full body that contacts the rifling. Doing that brought my 100 yard groups to 1 1/2" from 6"!
Or as I call it, minute of clay pigeon at 100 yards accurate! Plenty good for the type of shooting I do and it only cost me $20 for a different mould and 10 seconds worth of time to switch handles from another mould. No honing, lapping or anything else. Maybe you are one that needs better accuracy from your lever gun, that's good. I just figure, for what I need my Marlin for, hunting shots at less than 100 yards, I have just what I need.

Hope this helps.

p.s. Go with one of the old standard powders for the Marlin too.

Here is a link you may want to check out. I have tried Lil' Gun with plain based lead bullets with poor results. 2400 or H110/W296 works a lot better.
32-20 Load Data - Handloads.Com

[Gun 4 Fun]

I checked back through a lot of old magazines, and found some info for you. In Guns & Ammo, August 1989, Ross Seyfried, says that the Marlin aimed for a nominal .311" bore, and I know they have Ballard style rifling in all 1894 CL's in .218 Bee, .25/20, and .32/20.

In Handloader #252, April-May 2008, there is an excellent aticle by Brian Pearce on handloading the .32/20. You can get a back issue copy from Wolfe Publishing #(928) 445-7810.

In the article, he lists loads with Unique, Universal Clays, and H-110, and probably a few others, but I just scaned it rather quickly to give you some info. It is quite a good article, and is thorough like Pearce always is. There is even pressure info, and he uses several guns, both rifle and pistol. He refers to the Marlin quite a bit. He seems to be in agreement with all my other sources, including Seyfried on the .311-.312" bore. You may want to get a copy for future reference.

There is another excellent article in Rifle #209 by Pearce on handloading for the .25/20 and the .32/20. There are a bunch more loads listed in that one too. There are loads listed that were used in the Marlin.

Merry Christmas!

[flat top]

Smithhound; Two PM's sent.

[zeke]

Have a newer version Marlin 1894 CL in 32-20. Had to trim the cases shorter than min oal, just so normal length jacketed .312 bullets would chamber. As lead are usually slightly greater dia, ya might want to check how much lede your chamber has, before deciding on a mould.

[smithywess]

I'm a bit late with this reply but what the heck. I have a Marlin Model of 1889 which slugs to .313" and I fire the R.C.B.S. 98 grain cast bullet in a #2 Lyman alloy and water quenched from the mould. I size the bullet to .314" in a custom Lee sizing die and lube the bullet with Alox. At 50 yards off a sandbag the group size using 7.5 grains of 2400 is less than one and a half inches, using a vintage Lyman tang sight, and the average chronographed speed is 1256 f.p.s. This might not work or be safe in anyone else's rifle but it duplicates factory blackpowder loads and is safe in my rifle. Unique has been another good powder for me fired at the same speed.

In order to have the rounds cycle through my magazine I was compelled to crimp in front of the front driving band in order to keep the overall length down. Historically I believe this is what they did with the blackpowder round as well but because the load was a compressed one there was no problem with the bullet being pushed into it's case further by magazine spring pressure. In the smokeless loads some folk have reported the bullet being pushed into the case but I think it depends upon how much neck tension one can get in the cartridge. I use an R.C.B.S. expander die of .312" and this with my sized bullet at .314" seems to afford enough neck tension that I havn't had any problem with bullet shift using the magazine. If I did I would simply use unsized bullets for the R.C.B.S. mould I'm using drops the alloyed bullets at .316" which work just about as well as the sized ones do. I have no experience with more modern firearms or other makes.
my two cents.

[rockquarry]

.311" is probably too small for the majority of .32-20s. However, I haven't been able to tell much difference, accuracy-wise, in .312" and .313" in a Marlin. Unless you're using hot loads with a hard alloy, shooting the largest diameter bullet that will easily chamber will probably work best. In a revolver, make sure the bullet will pass through each cylinder chamber without a great deal of force.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by Smithhound

I own both and have several moulds that I want to use for both. One I've got in particular is an RCBS .32-98-SWC, it throws a bullet .316 as cast. I thought that the bore diameter for .32-20 was closer to .312. No way will this bullet size down to .312/311, I think the lubri-sizer will snap before that happens and I know the bullet shouldn't be taken down more than .002 in any case.
Am I off on the bore diameter of .32-20? I haven't slugged the barrel of either firearm so i don't know for sure what either are, I'm just looking for general standards of bore size for this caliber.
RD

Several points, but a question first. Who told you that a bullet can't be sized more than .002", or that sizing more than that will be so hard that you could damage the lubri-sizer? There is absolutely no truth in either premise. Before going farther I will simply state I have been casting bullets for 50 years, several hundred-thousand bullets in that time, so I am speaking from experience, not "what I have heard somewhere".

While sizing over .002 is commonly believed to be detrimental to accuracy this isn't necessarily the case. When it comes to sizing effort, the chances are you will never notice any difference. If you are casting with straight type-metal any bullet will be harder to size than more usual alloys. Just for an example, I have sized bullets intended for .45 Rifle which cast as large as .461 clear down to .446 (That's .015") for my 11mm Mauser. This was somewhat more difficult, and quite a bit of the lube grooves disappeared, but they shot acceptably contrary to "common knowledge" that this will ruin a cast bullet.

Just for your benefit I just slugged my .32-20 1894CL. It isn't quite round and it measures .3115 to .3118 at the muzzle. I have fourteen or fifteen .32 caliber guns (not counting .32 ACP), the Marlin, and the rest are S&W, Colt and a Cimmaron/Uberti. Most are .32-20 and range from 1905 to ca. 1998 (Cimmaron) production. All the Colt and S&W guns slug between .311 and .312.

Of all of these the Cimmaron measures .310, so I shoot .311 bullets in it. For the others, since you should size .001-.002 over groove (or throat) diameter, I simply use bullets sized at .314 since that is the size I get from my nominal .313 sizer die. All shoot very well with this size bullet with the major issue being 66 year old eyes!

My K-32 will shoot (when I could) inside 4" groups at 100 yds. My Ruger SP-101 loaded to the nuts, see my post yesterday when someone asked about hot .32 H&R loads, shoots in this same range, 4-5" @ 100 yds.

My most used cast bullet for .32-20 and .32 S&W Long is the Lyman 3118 (311008 now) cast from alloy approximating Lyman #2. For my Colt Police Positive .32 New Police I use the same bullet as you, RCBS .32-098 SWC. I have never been a fan of using light-for-caliber bullets, especially cast. The RCBS bullet matches the shape and weight for the .32 New Police. The 3118 matches the original .32-20 bullets in both weight and shape and is excellent in anything I have ever shot it in.

One final suggestion, and this concerns bullet lube. Forget the NRA Alox mixes and the hard lubes that require heat. The last particularly do little to prevent leading. The best lube I have found is the Saeco Green which, i believe, is available from Forster. This is so good at preventing leading that it will even clean out a barrel badly leaded from shooting with other lubes. A little story. I have a USFA Rodeo .45. I had a box of Speer 250 gr. swaged LSWC bullets which i Just wanted to get rid of. I loaded these with a normal charge of Unique, something like 8.2-5 gr. I shot the entire box without concern for leading, but when done it was far worse than I had expected. You literally could not see any hint of rifling, it looked like the proverbial sewer pipe. Not thinking I had anything to lose I shot a cylinder full of loads with Lyman 454424 lubed with Saeco Green. After the first cylinder the barrel still had some lead, but probably 90% was gone and there was only some just ahead of the throat. A second cylinder and most of that was gone, and by the third cylinder the barrel was thoroughly clear of lead!

Several years ago I obtained the recipe for Saeco from a former Saeco sales rep. The lube I am using is mixed using his recipe so it may not exactly match what is available commercially. This was the first time I had shot any bullets lubed with this lube. To say I was pleasantly surprised by this experience would be an understatement! Currently I use two lubricants, this Saeco, and SPG for Black Powder loaded ammunition. I honestly cannot believe you will ever have better results with anyone's touted home-made lubricant or any commercially available lubricant than you will with Saeco Green.

[elfego baca]

I size my cast bullets to .312 for both my Marlin 1894 3220 CL and my CMP M1 carbine. The 120 grain RNFP works great in both