Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:00 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default .38 spl 148 wadcutter ROLL CRIMP die

Well after scratching my head....I have 4 .38 die sets

2 Dillon
1 RCBS
1 Redding (Profile)

none have a roll crimp die.

I found out the accu crimp die with the Dillons is not a roll crimp.
I spoke to someone at Redding, Profile Crimp will not provide the desired roll crimp.

He told me to look for a standard Redding Die 92184, but that number does not correspond with anything at Midway.

Which die should I get for a roll crimp only on 148 wadcutters on the 4th station of my dillon?

Want to get the right die.

thanks in advance

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 07-16-2010 at 06:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:18 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Nevermind, I found the die via Midway.

Redding Seater Die 38 Special, 357 Magnum - MidwayUSA

unless someone else has a better suggestions...I will buy it on Monday.

does this one (Lee Factory Crimp Die) do a roll crimp? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=251707

it says this, but I want someone who has experience with this die.
Applies a factory-like crimp (roll crimp) to more firmly hold the bullet in place.

TIA

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 07-16-2010 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:07 PM
Andy Griffith's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Georgia
Posts: 4,849
Likes: 62
Liked 433 Times in 222 Posts
Default

I don't know if they sell the seater/crimper individually, but the "cowboy" series of dies from RCBS are all roll crimp. Also, for less money you could call CH4D and they have roll crimp dies. Or, rummage through the boxes of dusty dies at the gun show- which I've done numerous times.

If you have a set or can pick up a set cheap of .38 Special Lyman 310 dies, they should be roll crimp. Just get an adapter for 7/8x14 press. Problem is, finding them cheap anymore is the problem.

If I have an extra regular roll crimper laying around that isn't in a set, I'll throw it your way.
__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:17 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

thanks Andy.

I actually need to get one in the works soon as I will have to reload for a match in Aug and Sep.

The gun shows show up about every 3 months + here and I dont know of any in the near future.

If you have one....thanks!

what is CH4D? (ahhh, I just copied and paste. there is a site)

Also, I need to hook up with ol boy ref shotgun loaders! I save your PM, just not made the time to go over and see what he has got, if you are still interested.

TIA

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 07-16-2010 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-16-2010, 10:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southwestern Ohio
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 1
Liked 274 Times in 132 Posts
Default

The Lee Factory Crimp Die is a roll crimp die and will work very well (I have used one in my Dillon 550B's for many years). It is made to adjust the crimp with your fingers and as a result you can easily fine tune for the PERFECT amount of crimp.

Dale53
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-16-2010, 11:21 PM
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,057
Likes: 107
Liked 366 Times in 177 Posts
Default

RCBS 38/357 roll crimp die. I find it applies exactly the crimp I want on all my 38/357 loads, including a light roll crimp for wadcutters.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2010, 11:21 PM
dg101win's Avatar
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 290
Likes: 65
Liked 15 Times in 8 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dg101win
Default

About 8 years ago I loaded a few thousand of the Star 148 HBWC's with either RCBS or Dillon dies on my Dillon 550. I forget when I finally bought the Dillon dies. Either way I used some of these rounds in a friends Mdl 52 and they fed great in it.
I also loaded about 1,000 or so for the friend for him to use and he never had any complaints.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-17-2010, 12:20 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

the main purpose of needing a roll crimp is this....

to aid in faster reloads with 148 remmys

the accu crimp edge of the case is causing some reload hangups on fast stages where every millisecond is need to be smooth and accurate.

if it does not go in smooth, I feel myself get sloppy by trying to make up time.

I want this edge

compared to this edge
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-17-2010, 04:03 PM
Alk8944's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 3,633
Likes: 189
Liked 896 Times in 493 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
Well after scratching my head....I have 4 .38 die sets

2 Dillon
1 RCBS
1 Redding (Profile)

none have a roll crimp die.

I found out the accu crimp die with the Dillons is not a roll crimp.
I spoke to someone at Redding, Profile Crimp will not provide the desired roll crimp.

He told me to look for a standard Redding Die 92184, but that number does not correspond with anything at Midway.

Which die should I get for a roll crimp only on 148 wadcutters on the 4th station of my dillon?

Want to get the right die.

thanks in advance

Unless marked as Taper Crimp the RCBS die is a roll crimp die. I don't know for sure about the Dillon for .38 Special, but other Dillon die sets I have are all roll crimp dies.

For Redding, I don't know what they told you, but the Profile Crimp is actually a hybrid that forms a crimp that starts as a taper crimp and finishes the mouth as a small roll crimp.

If you want a crimp die instead of seat-crimp the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die is a roll crimp for revolver cartridges but doesn't work well if you are using bullets larger than .357.

I have only been loading for 50 years, and in this time all the die sets I have seen for all manufacturers for revolver cartridges have had roll crimp dies standard unless otherwise labelled or requested. The exception is the more recent Redding Profile Crimp as noted which is a modified roll crimp. I'm afraid I don't understand your problem!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2010, 05:39 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Alk....

None of my dies for 38sp will do a roll crimp.

My pic shows what crimp the accu crimp will do.

I need the roll on the edge for faster reloads with speedloaders.

I have an older rcbs set and its marked 85.

The slugs are .358"

Tia
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-17-2010, 06:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 2
Liked 140 Times in 114 Posts
Default

I've never used Dillion or Redding profile dies either. But the RCBS should do both a roll and a taper crimp depending on how far down you adjust it. Unless it was made specifically for taper crimps, I'll go dig into some of mine and see if they have any numbers on them.

My .38s are marked 81 and my .357s are marked 80. You could have a problem there depending on their age.

Last edited by Jellybean; 07-17-2010 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:23 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Thanks jellybean.

I am a few hrs away from the house. I will confirm those rcbs number when I get home.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:09 PM
Andy Griffith's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Georgia
Posts: 4,849
Likes: 62
Liked 433 Times in 222 Posts
Default

I'm sorry, I can't find an extra roll crimp die.
Wish I did...
__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:13 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Thanks 4 checking Andy.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:40 PM
VonFatman's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: KC Area
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 42
Liked 110 Times in 41 Posts
Default

.38 Special Flush-face 148gr...

Not arguing, but I use Dillon dies and If I so choose, I can crank in a wide range of crimp and it's a roll crimp. It can look exactly like the pic you have with the box of Remington factory ammo in the background if I dial it in.

I do not compete so I have have no speed concerns...thus, I use just the minimum about of crimp...just to hold the bullet in place....no more. Seems my accuracy is at it's best when the crimp is at it's least.

Bob
__________________
"Onward thru the Fog"

Last edited by VonFatman; 07-17-2010 at 11:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-18-2010, 01:03 AM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Von FM

I have tried both Dillon AccuCrimp and the Profile Redding Crimp and start out light and work my way heavy and I get the same results as show in the pic.

I checked my RCBS dies, and the seat die which I assume is also the crimp die is marked "Seat 85".

I might test this one tomorrow. my goal is to just roll the edge slightly to improve feeding so I get more use out of my brass.

my cylinder does have a light chamfer job by the gunsmith but I need help on the bullet end.

thanks in advance

Last edited by SW CQB 45; 07-18-2010 at 01:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Alk8944's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 3,633
Likes: 189
Liked 896 Times in 493 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
Von FM

I have tried both Dillon AccuCrimp and the Profile Redding Crimp and start out light and work my way heavy and I get the same results as show in the pic.

I checked my RCBS dies, and the seat die which I assume is also the crimp die is marked "Seat 85".

I might test this one tomorrow. my goal is to just roll the edge slightly to improve feeding so I get more use out of my brass.

my cylinder does have a light chamfer job by the gunsmith but I need help on the bullet end.

thanks in advance
If your die set is 3 dies then the "Seat" die is seat/crimp. All the "85" on the die means is it was made in 1985, this should be on the sizer too.

I have to ask, so don't get upset, but just how much reloading experience do you have? If that die isn't giving you a roll crimp it is a problem with adjustment unless RCBS included a seat die from a 4-die set that is supposed to have a separate crimp die, which isn't impossible, although I am sure all seat dies crimp and they just include a separate crimp body. You wouldn't be the first person just starting thought there was something wrong with the dies when he just didn't understand how to use them!

FWIW, I worked for RCBS for a while many years ago.

If you want it I have an old RCBS seat die that I used for years that is absolutely for a roll crimp. Send me a PM with your address and I will send it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:25 PM
Jeff423's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 459
Likes: 141
Liked 46 Times in 32 Posts
Default

FWIW,

I was reading an article that was written at the time the 52 was introduced and they did exhaustive testing of handloads. They got the best accuracy with a slight taper crimp. Based on this I put a Redding taper crimp die in the last station of my 650. The accuracy is very good, but I don't know if it's better than the slight roll crimp I used previously. I think the key is to not use too much of whatever crimp you use.

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-18-2010, 10:58 PM
VonFatman's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: KC Area
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 42
Liked 110 Times in 41 Posts
Default

Jeff,
That's what I have read as well. Thus I use VERY little crimp on my loads.

In the first pic...this is the crimp I use now. I load Zero Swaged 148gr. Bullets and I bell just a tad more to avoid shaving lead while seating.


The second pic shows the way I used to crimp...not much more, but a little bit.
__________________
"Onward thru the Fog"
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-18-2010, 11:30 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Von FM...is your Dillon die an Accu Crimp?

I cannot achieve that front light to heavy...it will not roll and the Dillon Tech guy said, an accu crimp is not a roll crimp.

the Redding tech guy said Profile Crimp is not a roll crimp.

RCBS is only open M-Thur.....business must be good as I called on friday and their VM told me that.

I am going to order a roll crimp, for the .358 slug probably the Redding from Midway.

and YES>>>I have to bell a lil more with the remmy 148s

where do you get your zero swaged from? I may want to try those if they are cheaper.

Nice looking loads!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-19-2010, 12:02 AM
VonFatman's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: KC Area
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 42
Liked 110 Times in 41 Posts
Default

You know, I am going to assume the die set I use (Dillon # 14400) is an "Accu-crimp" only because the Dillon folks (on their web site...link below)
suggest you will get a taper crimp die if the caliber is considered a semi-auto. I would think 38/357 caliber dies would be considered a revolver caliber.

The die gives no clue, nor does the box. I own three sets of Dillon dies chambered in 38/357 and all say 14400 on the box.

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

I get my Zero bullets from either Powder Valley or Roze Dist. (depends on price)
Links:

Powder Valley, Inc.

Roze Distribution - Main

Thanks, it's hard to screw up when you use a Dillon 650...it's a great press.
__________________
"Onward thru the Fog"
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-19-2010, 07:46 AM
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 2
Liked 84 Times in 63 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45 View Post
Alk....

None of my dies for 38sp will do a roll crimp.

My pic shows what crimp the accu crimp will do.

I need the roll on the edge for faster reloads with speedloaders.

I have an older rcbs set and its marked 85.

The slugs are .358"

Tia
For bullseye pistol use with 148 gr. LWC's I have applied a very light crimp using my Dillon die. For action pistol shooting such as ICORE with speedloaders the easiest solution is to opt for a LRN bullet.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-19-2010, 07:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boston Strong !
Posts: 126
Likes: 4
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

FWIW, I just ran some .357 cases into my RCBS .357 Seater 1970 die and it indeed makes some beautiful roll crimps, just like my Star.

Unfortunately, the roll crimp ring is too deep in the die to affect .38 spl cases. It does reinforce, however, what others have said ... the RCBS .38 spl Seater will give you the roll crimp you want.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-19-2010, 01:07 PM
SW CQB 45's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 9
Liked 201 Times in 119 Posts
Default

Tsquared. I shoot in a league where wadcutters are allowed and pretty much everyone uses.

I also shoot PPC where the wadcutters are the standard.

When I shoot service revolver with 158s, there are no issues with reloading.

I just want to slight roll the edge to smooth up my reloads when using the remmys.

thanks mr gizmo. I need to order a roll crimp die.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
357 magnum, 650, bullseye, crimp, gunsmith, ppc, rcbs, remington, wadcutter

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Reloading Thread, .38 spl 148 wadcutter ROLL CRIMP die in Ammunition-Gunsmithing; Well after scratching my head....I have 4 .38 die sets 2 Dillon 1 RCBS 1 Redding (Profile) none have a ...
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is the difference between a roll crimp and a taper crimp? Retired LTC, USAR Reloading 20 04-03-2013 06:42 PM
Roll crimp better for 45acp revolver vs taper crimp? YamaLink Reloading 15 01-07-2013 01:54 AM
Roll Crimp die set up Magnumdood Reloading 9 09-12-2011 05:24 PM
ROLL CRIMP-TAPER CRIMP FOR 38 357 HAWKEYE10 Reloading 10 05-15-2009 04:23 PM
357 mag taper vs roll crimp duckloads Reloading 21 01-19-2009 09:48 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2013
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)