I’m new to reloading, and am looking for some advice on an issue I have been having.

I’m working with a Lee Classic Turret press, once fired WWB brass and 200 grain Missouri Bullets “Bullseye” LSWCs, loading dummy rounds, without primers or powder.

The rounds are 1.225 OAL, on spec per Hodgon’s charts.

When manually cycling the slide, the rounds consistently fail to feed. The cartridge is getting hung-up inside top the chamber. More of a two point than a three point jam.

I am belling the cases enough to receive the bullets without shaving a hair of lead off of them.

I can create rounds that feed by applying an aggressive crimp, resulting in a case diameter of .466-.467.

What am I doing wrong? Could I be over belling the cases?

200 grain cast bullets made by different manufacturers can and do sometimes have different length noses. Try seating the bullets a few thousandths deeper at a time until you get proper feeding/functioning. Also, are you releasing the slide and letting it go, or slowly letting it go while watching the feeding process. You need to just let it go. The fact that you said you are getting a "two point" jam leads me to believe that deeper seating is in order.

Once you start loading with powder, don't start near the top, especially if you do have to seat deeper than what is listed, since it decreases powder capacity and will definately increase pressure with an equal charge of powder.

It may not be entirely the fault of your ammo. Some M1911 (and newer pistols) simply do not feed SWC bullets well. The barrel might need a "throating job" where the feed ramp and chamber edges are smoothed and polished.

What you CAN do before thinking it is your pistol that needs modifying, is pay absolute attention to your loading procedures:

1. Bullet seating dept and COL may have to be adjusted for improved feeding. Generally, SWC bullets need longer COL for good feeding.

2. Flare cases just enough to seat bullets without shaving lead. Crimp enough to straighten out and remove the flare. Use a straightedge to check cases for straightness.

3. Use the barrel removed from your pistol for a cartridge gage: each and every loaded round should drop fully into the chamber and fit easily. If they don't, your case sizing, bullet seating, or crimping may be faulty.

Remember that the loading manual COL figures are merely GUIDELINES, and are not necessarily absolute values. It may have to be adjusted for best function in YOUR pistol. As long as the loaded rounds fit your magazine, and feed properly in the pistol, that is what matters.

Let us know how you make out.

I see some great advice already. What is the make and model of the gun you are using?

I like to leave the bullet shoulder just a little out from the case mouth.
You will just have to try to find the right length.
Hand cycling a slide seems to always cause hang ups.
Try locking the slide back and then dropping the release.
Remove the barrel as John said and use it as your gauge.
If you have other magazines try them all with your loads.
Having to crimp down your loads to .466" is probably not a good solution.

Bruce

If you don't crimp the rounds, the leading edge of the brass can cause hangups. As has been mentioned, you may need to adjust the oal one way or the other.

+ 1 for checking shorter lengths, also perhaps +.010” as well. I think the minimum where the shoulder is exactly flush with the case mouth is going to be about 1.230”, most people set the shoulder out about .030’ from the case mouth.
I made a set of dummies at various Col to check feeding. I have more than one 1911, a 4566, and a P220 to feed. So it becomes a bit tricky to get all to work with the same COL.
Missouri bullets are the standard H&G 68 profile. It has a very good reputation for feeding in most 1911s.
I am running 1.240” now with that profile and a .470 taper crimp, everything is feeding.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Sounds like you may not be seating your bullet to the correct OAL to get good feed. Frankly I ignore all the numbers for OAL's listed and don't use a caliper when setting seating depth for SWC's. I simply adjust the seating depth that the shoulder of the bullet is just slightly above the case mouth and then apply taper crimp. Most all SWC's designed for semi auto pistols have a slight bevel or rounded leading edge at the shoulder that will prevent getting hung up when chambering if seated correctly. I seat my SWC's for the .45 as illustrated in the picture below and they work well in all my .45's (1911's, Sig, and Ruger). You can see the taper crimp's shinny ring around the case mouth made using a Lee FC die.

Things mentioned above are good. One other thing I have had happen is too soft of bullets.

I got some from a local supplier years ago and they simply would not feed. They were even round nose! When the slide would close under normal force, slid to the back and released, the bullets would jam and there would be a serious defect in the bullet at that point. It wouldn't slide into the chamber, they just sat there.

All of the above is excellent info and right on the money. Not trying to throw a negative tone to the whole issue, but if you are new to reloading, perhaps just start loading some regular 230 gr ball (RN) bullets. Less finicky and will feed in just about any 45. As mentioned some guns feed differently than others. I have several 45's and got tired of adjusting loads so it will feed in one and not the other. For my shooting the RN makes a good enough hole. For those competition shooters the SWC punch that perfect hole.

Not saying do not learn to load the SWC, just do not get frustrated with them, load some ball get used to loading and work on the SWC.

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Still Running Against the Wind

OP, you didn't say what kind of pistol you're loading for. I see 1911 mentioned in replies, but I tried loading the same bullets for my Glock 30 and it never feed them remotely reliably.

I've got a 4566 now and think I may try the SWCs again. It seems much more forgiving than the Glock, which feeds 230 LRNs perfectly.

I also think you're over crimping for a lead target round. My die crimp reads .470-.471 and seems to work fine.

One more thing, since you have not mentioned gun type, some 1911 magazines feed simi-wadcutters much better than others.

S&W and SIG pistols are not nearly as sensitive to magazines as is the 1911. The Military Magazine was designed for 230 gr ball, in some pistols these magazines will feed SWC reliably, in some not.
Before I abandoned hope, and long before I had anything polished, I would try different magazines. The Wilson 47D has a very good reputation for SWC reliability in most 1911s.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I think I've got it!

I brought overall length out to 1.245 and relaxed the crimp to .471, all rounds feed fine now though my Valor and Baers.

Now all I need are some large pistol primers and I'm ready to go.

I've been using Checkmate and Colt marked Checkmates with hybrid lips, which is why I was so surprised to find feeding issues.

Thanks everyone!

Sounds like you solved it. I was advised MANY years ago tho crimp to .469 and oal to 1.250 and that has worked in pretty much all gun/mag combinations. Good luck

I have done a great deal of competitive shooting over the years with that bullet design. It is known for feeding extremely well when loaded to the correct OAL. The traditional OAL for that bullet design is 1.25".

Many people fail to properly crimp their autopistol ammo, convinced that they will have problems because the ammo won't properly "headspace on the case mouth." In reality, in most production handguns, the ammunition is actually headspacing on the extractor hook.

When fellow competition shooters are having gun/ammo problems, it is often because of insufficient crimp. In most situations, more crimp will improve functioning.

Carmoney is right if the bullet design is the old H&G 68, as pictured in Steve C's post. I've shot many thousands of rounds of my handloads with H&G 68 bullets, with near zero feed problems. I've seen 1911s that were iffy with hardball that would feed H&G 68s every time. Unfortunately, there are a fair number of manufacturers of 200gr. semi-wadcutters that are making bullets with shorter noses than that of the 68. Those can be problematic. I've had 1911s that would smoothly hand-cycle empty cases, but wouldn't feed 185 gr. match wadcutters, and some of the 200s out there have profiles closer to the 185 WC.

Well, I just looked at the Missouri Bullet website, and those look like H&G 68s. Glad the OP got his problem solved.

200 grain LSWC taper crimp around .472-.474

200 grain LRN same thing

COAL 1.250 for both

3.9 grains of Clays and you are dead on ball accurate. Even my Colt WW1 repro loves that load.

Sounds like you've got'er fixed. You've got a great bullet for paper and anything else with the right load. For paper, I have found that 4.4 gr. or 4.5 gr. of Bullseye with that bullet is a winner for accuracy. You may find Clays better as it has less smoke with cast bullets and their lube.

Hi, I am new to this forum and I just joined a few minutes ago so I could help with your problem...if I could. You solved your problem and I did read the list of posts and your final response that you figured out how deep to set your bullets and eliminate feeding problems.

I just started loading 45 ACP for my Hi Point. (I got it to see if I like the caliber in a semi auto pistol and am planning to get another (more than one 45) if like it)). I loaded some heavy 45s for my Ruger Blackhawk and when I tried to chamber rounds in the HP they failed to feed, and failed to chamber because of the seating depth. I pulled a lot of bullets and did some experimenting and finally settled on 1.243" OAL and all problems went away. My bullets are Suters Choice Bullets and I buy them locally, but I prefer Missouri Bullets. I just needed them now so I got them locally.

I found what I believe is a reason for the hang-ups...exposed lead. Once the amount of exposed lead was minimized which allowed the case brass to contact the feed ramp instead of the lead, all problems went byebye. I think it is just that the harder metal of the case slides up the ramp easier than lead and with a chunk of lead sticking up above the case mouth the cartridge snagged on the ramp.

I also found that after stuffing the bullet down a bit farther, using Lee's 4th die of the set, the Crimp/Post Size Die squeezed the area of lead outside the case mouth down to the diameter that the case mouth gets crimped.

Now, a question: Anyone who can please field this: I see repeated mentions about crimp size or diameter etc...is this just a mic measurement at the end of the case mouth where the case is crimped?

Thanks for the good info. I will go to the check in station now and intro myself.

hombre243,

Welcome to the forum.

The crimp size is a Mic measurement at end of the case mouth.

The 4th die in the LEE die set is the LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE,
many DO NOT RECOMMEND its use with Cast or Swedged lead bullets
as it will squeeze the bullet diameter down and may lead to leading of the barrel.

This thread is also 3 1/2 years old.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

As a few have mentioned, but maybe not emphatically enough - OAL doesn't mean SQUAT (Unless you have EXACTLY the same bullet used by the powder manufacturer whose data you are using - EXACTLY) in 45 ACP. Seat the bullet so there is about a thumbnail width of shoulder beyond the brass. I'd say just about halfway between the first two bullets in this picture from somebody else's post:

Depending on bullet manufacturer, I have loaded out to 1.248 to achieve consistent feeding in my Sig 1911. Plated bullets seem to require the longer OAL.

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State of Jefferson
Jim

Well in reality the 45 ACP does not head space off the extractor hook,

When it's all said and done it head spaces off the case mouth.
Let me explain:

An ideal situation for the 45 acp case is to head space on the case mouth with the back of the case,(the case head) even with the back of the barrel hood. In order for that to take place the case length has to be perfect for a given chamber. 45 ACP cases have a lot of Grass between case length Minimum and maximum length, further complicating the issue is the fact that 45 ACP cases do not grow when shot and reloaded, they get shorter. I am sure you have noticed that if you load the cartridge.

Take any number of 45 cases and drop them into the barrel chamber with the barrel removed from the pistol, see how many drop in with the back of the case even with the back of the barrel hood ?

What ! you say many go in deeper ? so how does this whole thing work ?
The extractor does indeed grip and hold the case, but there is wiggle room for the case to move forward away from the beach face when the pistol is shot. With short cases the firing pin inertia pushes the case a head into the chamber, the case stops at the end of the chamber and head spaces there while still being held by the extractor.

The length of the firing pin and the slight wiggle room built into the extractor all work together. Ever notice sometimes you will get a light pin strike on a case and a heavier one on another ? the case was in a different position in the chamber while still grabbed by the extractor. A very short case that exceeds the limits of the extractor can be held by it but that is not the norm.

I cast with an original H&G 4 hole # 68 SWC mold that was made in the very early 1940,s Like all semi WC bullets it has a shoulder. The best way to get even ignition and the same position in the barrel with the case head against the breach face or as close to it as possible is to try loading like this. ( it's not my idea ) it is proven way to do it.

Take the barrel out of the pistol, seat a SWC long in a dummy case. You may have to remove some case mouth flare for the bullet to fully enter the barrel. Now drop it into the barrel, the case head should be proud of the back of the barrel hood. Now re- seat slowly till the bullet drops in and is flush with the back of the barrel hood. Add a thou or two for eventual fowling at the chamber end and that is your OAL for that bullet.

My pistol, my barrel, likes about 1.240 1.245
That round should function. If it does not, make sure your barrel is throated properly for SWC bullets,
or adjust the seating dept a tiny amount, a crimp of .469 to .472 should work fine. Over crimping does nothing for bullet hold, to much crimp will actually loosen the bullet hold and just distort the bullet.

Most new guns are set up for SWC bullets with the acception of some 1911 GI pattern pistols that are throated for ball ammo only. A standard GI mag with the dimple on the follower should work fine, it's all I need.

Use a 23# main spring and a 16# recoil spring, A 1911 should NOT need a 20 or 22 pound recoil spring to function with standard Vel. ball or even a soft target load. Heavy springs are a band aid for not fixing a problem

grey wolf,

How about editing and do some paragraph spacing.
To my old eyes your post is very hard to read.

It just looks like a very long run on sentence to me.

Thanks,
MOONMAN

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

OK .. see if this solves it for ya.
step one ... back off your seating die so that it does not make a crimp
Step two, adjust the seating punch so that it seats to your desired OAL
Step three back off the seating punch to avoid any contact with the bullet.
step four run the die body down to crimp.
this will separate the seating and crimping functions of the die.
see how THAT chambers for ya.

If this solves it, and likely will, you could add a crimp only die to the set and use your seat / crimp die for seating only.
Or you could perform the above steps in respect to your production run.

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it just needs more voltage

Been doing my H&G 68 clones at 1.250 and a .470 taper crimp for years with no feeding issues.

Maybe the OP figured out the problem in 2010. Think he is still following this thread??

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Still Running Against the Wind

The following URL has an interesting article on 1911 reliability.

1911 Reliability Secrets

One of the things mentioned is having a slight bevel on the inside of the barrel hood to improve feeding reliability. I looked at the barrel hood of a new Colt defender and there was a bevel on the inside of the barrel hood.

Hope this helps.

JB

Have you checked the bullet in your barrel?? That is remove the barrel and check your fit?? I always let my barrel be my guide-- if the fit is not right, nothing else will matter. That would be where I would start at least--JMHO-