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Old 08-28-2010, 01:37 AM
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Default What is ideal weight bullet for 223 with 1:12 twist?

For a bolt action 223 I have been loading regular bulk 55 gr fmj bullets. I get confused )especially this late or early) on the the twist/bullet weight relation. I gather 1:12 is rather slow so it should handle lighter bullets without tearing them up. For target shooting would I do better with a little heavier bullet than 55gr.?
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:48 AM
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Faster twist needed for heavier bullets, less so for lighter ones like the 40 grainer's.

Original sporters in .223 had 1-14" twist barrels like the .22/250, but as more and more guys started using the longer match bullets, and the military started using heavier than 55 grain bullets for different applications, the twist has gotten faster. I remember when my Mini Mark X which had a twist rate of 1-10" was considered fast. Now....

I'd say that your twist should work pretty well with up to 60-62 grain bullets at normal velocity, and will definately work well with lighter weights as long as the barrel is a goodun'.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:04 AM
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I agree, a 60gr-62gr bullet should be the bullet weight limit but if the bullet is short you might be able to go a little heavier. I own a Howa 1500 in .223 with a 1/14 twist and I shoot 52gr, 53gr and 55gr bullets from it but no heavier.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:44 AM
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It is not weight, but length that determines stability.

In a 1 in 12" twist 223, you should be able to stabilze the 70gr Speer semi spitzer, but probably not the 62gr Speer FMJ boat Tail.

I would think any 70gr and under semi spz flat base bullet or shorter should stabilize.

With boat tail bullets I would think 55 gr is about max.
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:51 AM
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Based on 15 years of shooting prairie dogs, I suggest Remington 50 gr HP as a very accurate and inexpensive bullet with a 1:14 twist barrel. That bullet worked in a Thompson Contender, AR 15, and S&W 1500 rifle.

The 55 gr FMJ bullets (got a great deal on 2,000 full case) only worked in AR 15 with 1:9 twist. These bullets were tumbling at 25 yards with a 1:14 twist. Awesome knockdown power, but the pattern size exceded FOUR FEET at 100 yards.

Several friends have searched for the "golden 223 bullet" and finally agreed that the Remington 50 gr HP gave the best results. There is an additional bonus to this bullet. You can run lubed cases thru your progressive reloader, tumble loaded ammo for 30 minutes, and be ready to shoot. The Rem hollow points are to small to fill with tumbling media. I have tumbled loaded ammo to remove case lube for 20+ years without a problem.
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Old 08-28-2010, 11:13 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I had not even considered the length/style of bullet. I have all these 55 grs as my AR is a 1:9.
The Weatherby 1:12 shoots them pretty well but I wanted to try to tighten it up a little more. I will have to go to a different range(crazy public range) to shoot over 100 yds as that's all we have at my current range(private).

I need to place an order for other "stuff" so I'll order a box or two of some premium bullets.

I also found this site which has a lot of good info. These guys are in a different league than I am.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

Edit: After re reading some of the replies, I might actually be better with a lighter bullet??
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Last edited by Rule3; 08-28-2010 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:25 PM
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In a .223 with 1:12 twist I'd go no heavier then 55 gr. In fact I'd try the 52/53 gr match bullets which you'll probably find are very accurate.

Wish I had a slow twist like that but mine is 1:9 and doesn't shoot the light bullets well.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:50 PM
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In a .223 with 1:12 twist I'd go no heavier then 55 gr. In fact I'd try the 52/53 gr match bullets which you'll probably find are very accurate.

Wish I had a slow twist like that but mine is 1:9 and doesn't shoot the light bullets well.
Thanks.I'll try some lighter match bullets.
My AR is 1:9.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:32 PM
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I use a 60 gr ballistic tip Hornady that says it is specifically designed to shoot in 1 in 12" barrels. It looks like this, at 100 yards, out of a 1 in 12" Handi rifle.

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Old 08-31-2010, 05:26 AM
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I get MOA from my AR with 69gr HPBT over a maximum load of Varget and it is 1:9 as well. I don't need to have that kind of accuracy all of the time so I load a 55gr HPBT or spitzer or whatever over a maximum load of BL-C(2) for range fodder. Never have put that load on paper but I bet it ain't too far off from the same kind of accuracy, just a bit higher at 100 yards!
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCD1 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I had not even considered the length/style of bullet. I have all these 55 grs as my AR is a 1:9.
The Weatherby 1:12 shoots them pretty well but I wanted to try to tighten it up a little more. I will have to go to a different range(crazy public range) to shoot over 100 yds as that's all we have at my current range(private).

I need to place an order for other "stuff" so I'll order a box or two of some premium bullets.

I also found this site which has a lot of good info. These guys are in a different league than I am.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

Edit: After re reading some of the replies, I might actually be better with a lighter bullet??
The rules of thumb are what they are, but sometimes don't quite hold up. We aren't "supposed" to get good accuracy and stability with bullets over 70-73 grains in a 9-twist barrel. However, I have duplicated the Mk242-Mod-0 77gr. load, using Sierra's 77gr. cannelured OTM bullets, and I'm getting MOA accuracy at 100 yards with my 14.5" M-4gery with Bushmaster 1x9 barrel. It does the same with Black Hills 75gr. loads, and my longer-barreled 1x9 match ARs shoot both loads even better.

I only own one .223 with a 1x12 twist, a Browning A-Bolt with a BOSS brake. I tuned the brake for 55gr. Ballistic Tip loads, and it will shoot into .7" at 100 yards all day. You are probably best off with nothing heavier than 55s, and 50-52 might be even better, but don't be afraid to experiment a little.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul5388 View Post
I use a 60 gr ballistic tip Hornady that says it is specifically designed to shoot in 1 in 12" barrels. It looks like this, at 100 yards, out of a 1 in 12" Handi rifle.

Nice!. If all I need is that bullet to group like that, I need to buy a few thousand!!
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:24 AM
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I'm not sure, but I think that the bullet Paul is using is the 60gr. V-Max. If so, I've had wonderful results with that bullet, even in my Mini-14s. I have a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle that will shoot sub-1.5 MOA with that bullet, as loaded by either Georgia Arms or Black Hills. The Mini has a 1x9 twist.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:49 AM
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I too have one of the little Mini Mark X rifles in .223 Remington. I have not checked the twist in it but the previous owner stated that it was 1-12" which may or may not be correct. I have shot almost everything from the 45gr. bullet to the 55gr. bullet, nothing heavier. But this little rifle will shoot 1/2" off a rest with several bullet weights and powders. It seems to shoot about anything 55gr. and under in less than 3/4" at 100 yards with several powders; IMR4198, H335, W748, H322. With a Winchester 55 gr. SP bullets and a heavy charge of H335(which I won't tell anyone because it is slightly above the listed book charge) it has produced more than one group of under 1/2" off a rest and I have one group which I saved the target that is 3/8" center to center. That is the load that I have settled on and haven't shot it from the bench much since I worked it up--no need to--it works. I reworked the stock from the club that came on it into a minature British Express rifle, no glass bedding, just free floated the barrel. It has one of the old Burris minature 4-12 target scopes on it. Its one of my all time favorites. My experience anyway, James
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38-44HD45 View Post
I'm not sure, but I think that the bullet Paul is using is the 60gr. V-Max. If so, I've had wonderful results with that bullet, even in my Mini-14s. I have a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle that will shoot sub-1.5 MOA with that bullet, as loaded by either Georgia Arms or Black Hills. The Mini has a 1x9 twist.
My Ranch Rifle will do the same using the 60 grain V-Max by Hornady.

BTW, Ballistic Tips are a Nosler bullet.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
I get MOA from my AR with 69gr HPBT over a maximum load of Varget and it is 1:9 as well. I don't need to have that kind of accuracy all of the time so I load a 55gr HPBT or spitzer or whatever over a maximum load of BL-C(2) for range fodder. Never have put that load on paper but I bet it ain't too far off from the same kind of accuracy, just a bit higher at 100 yards!
In my Savage I get under 1/2" with the 69gr match but can't come close shooting 55gr or 50 gr bullets. Wish I didn't have the 1:9 twist as I bought the gun for varmint hunting.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:58 PM
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Sorry about the confusion, the Hornady is indeed a V-Max. Ballistic tip takes on a generic aspect sometimes, something akin to all soft drinks being "cokes".
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:07 AM
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I keep hearing about Ranch Rifles and other assorted Mini-14s shooting good, but we are currently trying to get a NRA version with 16+ inch barrel to shoot a consistent 2.0" group. Mostly, we have gotten stringing that will produce more like a 6" group and that's with a deresonator installed.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:30 AM
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Paul, Jessie's results and mine with the 60gr. V-Max in Mini-14 Ranch Rifles is not that unusual. I've heard of some folks getting 1 MOA groups with the combination. I have a couple of other Minis, not Ranch Rifles, that will beat 2" with the same loads. The "NRA" 16" Minis have a reputation for not shooting very well. I've wondered if Ruger relapsed to their heat-treat sloppiness that plagued the early ones with patterns instead of groups as the barrels heated, or if they just need a crown job, or maybe if the stock/handguard setup on that one is the culprit. I've not shot one of them myself, but several of the NRA models have been sold through our local shops, and the feedback I'm getting is not encouraging.
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Old 09-01-2010, 10:41 PM
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I have a Rem M-700 with a 1:12 twist. I use Nosler 55 gr. Ballistic tips and 60 gr. Partitions with excellent results.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:37 PM
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I called Sierra Bullets (nice folks) they recommended I try their 52 gr Match King Boat tail. #1410.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:30 AM
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Great info.
I just purchased a Ruger #3 and Ruger informed me that it is a 1/12 twist.

This is my first rifle with that slow of twist in .223

All my other .223's are 1/9 or 1/7 twist.

My usual load is 25 grains of Varget and the SMK 77 grain bullet with works well out to 600 yards in my AR's and Rem 700 Tactical .223
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:41 AM
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A good 55gr. will group in any twist. Especially a 55gr. SIERRA SPITZER. 1 IN 7 --TO-- 1 IN 12.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:52 AM
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You are pretty much maxed out @ 55gr for a slow twist. Accuracy starts with good bullets & I would never expect pim point accuracy w/ cheap bulk 223 55gr ammo. Try some of the various 52-53gr match bullets in the Wby.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:08 PM
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I could get the speer 70gr to group in my Ruger 1-14 twist bull barrel at 1/2" at 100 yards........hard to beleive ....but the sierra 63gr sucked.

with a 1-12 lots of shooters like the Sierra 69gr or the Hornady 75gr bullets and if you need a bullet for deer the best is the winchester 64gr Power point,made for this option if
you can get it to group.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:44 PM
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Wow a thread from the Twilight Zone!

I know the answer now 3 years later
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:55 PM
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Experimentation to find the perfect load is the joy of reloading.

I found that Sierra 55 grn SPBTs worked so well out of my REM 788 with its 1:12 twist that I left well enough alone. A lot of dead rockchucks would argue that they worked too well.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:45 PM
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My CZ likes 40 grain V-MAX.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:36 PM
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Wow a thread from the Twilight Zone!

I know the answer now 3 years later
Things seem to be moving at 33 1/3 today.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:24 PM
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Things seem to be moving at 33 1/3 today.
I still play those. Even a few 45"s.Have all my classic collection.
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