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Old 09-04-2010, 08:18 AM
440turner 440turner is offline
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hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455  
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Default hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455

I am going to be making a few hundred hunting loads for me and friends and was wondering if I could get any input on what i should or should not do. I have many powders including 2400, bullseye, imr4227, w296, & unique. I also have CCI 300, and 350 primers as well as WLP wich usually I use for 45 acps as ive heard CCi's are a more preferred primer and I agree with them being slightly larger dimensionally. I bought a box of 100 Hornady 240gn XTP bullets and would like to know what others are using for hunting whitetail deer, wich in Michigan can easily reach 200lbs. I have heard that the XTP,s do not expand at low velocities, with that being said, What do you load these bullets to for max. expansion and all out hunting performance.I also have a couple of boxes of the Speer GDHP #4455 in stock and feel they may now be a better expanding bullet does anyone agree on this? I have read a post that spoke of 23 grains of W296 and of course a 350 primer. I also read or heard somewhere about using imr4227 for heavy bullets, I dont suppose this would be considered a heavy bullet but, I have loaded some up with 23gns or 4227 and liked the load quite a bit. I have loaded some 265 fp's with a low end charge of 4227 and it had lots of unburnt powder all over my shooting bench.

Last edited by 440turner; 09-04-2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason: different bullet found in the pile
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:35 AM
Bart 44 Bart 44 is offline
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I’ve used the 240 XTP for deer with great results. My 44 mag load for my S&W 629 is one you mentioned, 23gn H110 (exact same powder as Win 296) with a mag primer…..I use CCI 350. I use 24gn in my Ruger SAs. I’ve had several one shot kills with this load.

A heavy crimp is very important with these loads.

Dennis.
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:52 AM
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Deer, even the 200 pounder of which you speak, are relatively easy animals to kill. You don't need 'all-out' .44 mag loads to do this. ESPECIALLY when your loads are going to be developed in your gun, then handed out to other people to shoot in theirs. That is a very risky thing to do.

If the XTP doesn't expand, so what? It's still going to punch at least a .429 diameter hole through whatever you hit with it. It will easily take a 200 lb whitetail without expanding at all.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:36 AM
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Im using 24.5 gn of H110 with hornady's 240 XTP, its a great bullet, very accurate and will take care of any whitetail that walks. Its giving me around 1450 fps out of my 629.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Damn Yankee Damn Yankee is offline
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The 180's are really all you need for thin skinned animal like whitetail deer. Maximum load with 296 or AA9 will give you all of the velocity and expansion to put down a deer with a well placed shot.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: .430 44 CAL :: 44 Cal .430 180 gr HP XTP®
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:00 PM
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I really like the 240gr XTP, but I confess I've not killed anything with it. I don't think brass matters. But I'm a firm believer in CCI350 primers and W296/H110 powder. Between 23-24gr - see Hodgdon's load data. 23.5gr yields 1200fps from my 4" 329pd - which would be close to 1500fps from an 8" barrel. I'm no expert, but I think you want an impact velocity of about 1200fps and no faster than 1600fps. Faster is not better as too high a velocity will cause the bullet to over-expand too early.

Here is some 4" barrel 44mag load data
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:03 PM
buck460XVR buck460XVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440turner View Post
I am going to be making a few hundred hunting loads for me and friends and was wondering if I could get any input on what i should or should not do.
I suggest your friends roll their own or buy factory ammo to shoot outta their guns. Save the testing and your reloads for your guns.



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Originally Posted by 440turner View Post
I have many powders including 2400, bullseye, imr4227, w296, & unique. I dont suppose this would be considered a heavy bullet but, I have loaded some up with 23gns or 4227 and liked the load quite a bit.
You may have already answered your own question. Regardless of what works well for others, your own guns and own shooting preferences may and will differ. If you are happy with the accuracy of your load, the terminal velocity of said load is irrelevant, especially in the .44 magnum platform when used on deer sized game. I found more times than not maximum accuracy comes long before maximum velocity. Hittin' 'em where it counts is more important to me that just hittin' 'em hard. IMR4227 is not near as temperature sensitive as H110/W296 but both are proven performers with 240 grainers as is 2400. I have had good luck with all these powders but have yet to find a more accurate load than 23-23.5 grains of H110/W296 under any 240 grainer. This is from my PC629, my 77/44 carbine and my son's Marlin Lever.
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:07 PM
440turner 440turner is offline
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If the XTP doesn't expand, so what? It's still going to punch at least a .429 diameter hole through whatever you hit with it. It will easily take a 200 lb whitetail without expanding at all.[/QUOTE]

Who wouldnt want expansion on any of the larger game, isnt that the basic reason for a hollow pointed bullet. When the bullet hits its mark and expands its "petals" making a larger wound path wich could be helpfull for tracking, not to mention a larger projectile having a better chance of hitting more vitals or a larger area of the vitals. I was simply wondering at how many fps the bullet in question will expand, not really looking for full-house loads as much as making sure the bullet expanded like I assumed they were made for, werent they?
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:19 PM
buck460XVR buck460XVR is offline
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a neat little chart showing the intended velocities for different XTP bullets.....


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Old 09-04-2010, 02:37 PM
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440,

Your questions taken individually:


Of the components you list,I'd use either bullet and W296 with the CCI350.Start with no less than 22 grains,work up to 24 grains but no higher.

I agree with another poster who advised you not to load full power hunting loads for friends and for the exact same reasons he gave.Let them buy factory or load their own.

The Hornady velocity/expansion chart should be taken with a heavy dose of salt.It can give a very general idea that a bullet is suitable for high velocity or not but it's exact numbers should not be taken too seriously.
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:48 PM
440turner 440turner is offline
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Are you guys trying to tell me you dont let anyone other than yourself shoot your reloads?
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Who wouldnt want expansion on any of the larger game, isnt that the basic reason for a hollow pointed bullet. When the bullet hits its mark and expands its "petals" making a larger wound path wich could be helpfull for tracking, not to mention a larger projectile having a better chance of hitting more vitals or a larger area of the vitals. I was simply wondering at how many fps the bullet in question will expand, not really looking for full-house loads as much as making sure the bullet expanded like I assumed they were made for, werent they?
What is helpful for tracking is an exit hole, which you are much less likely to get with a JHP.

Expansion is, IMHO, HIGHLY overrated. I have had to track just as much game after it was shot with expanding bullets as I have with non-expanding. Don't expect a deer to fold up just because it was hit with a JHP. It doesn't always happen. Most of the advertising blather from bullet manufacturers about expansion is just that--blather, conceived to get you to buy them. There is no game on this planet that cannot be taken with a solid bullet and quite a bit that requires a solid in lieu of an expanding bullet.
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Old 09-04-2010, 03:52 PM
buck460XVR buck460XVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440turner View Post
Are you guys trying to tell me you dont let anyone other than yourself shoot your reloads?

No, I was just making a general suggestion without knowing your reloading experience/knowledge and/or procedures and without knowing what kind of friends you have and the types and conditions of their guns. Generally, for a myriad of reasons, it is wiser to teach your friends how to reload and even allow them to use your equipment, than it is for you to reload for them and their guns.

Basically, I let my friends shoot my reloads thru my guns. I shoot their reloads thru their guns. I reload for myself, my sons and their guns.
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440turner View Post
Are you guys trying to tell me you dont let anyone other than yourself shoot your reloads?
Pretty much, yeah. Reloads are kinda tailored to individual guns. What works in one might not in another. What is safe in one, may not be in another. I would have to be in a very tight spot before I would shoot someone else's reloads in my gun.

If you are sticking to <1000 fps loads in the .44, you probably won't have any problems. FWIW, a 900 fps load will cash in a deer's chips, easily.
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:35 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Question HMMMMMMMM.

OK, I'll play. But first, am I left to guess that the caliber you are loading is 44MAGNUM? Either of those bullets will fit in several 44 caliber firearms. Giving load data when we aren't 100% sure of the caliber is kinda, dangerous, don'tchathink?



I've had 180gr 44Spl bullets almost bounce off (not literally) of our Indiana deer when shot from a handgun. From a long gun? Maybe.

As for loading for friends, I have several that will be afield again this year carrying my reloads as their mainstay. So far, since Indiana has opened some pistol caliber rifles for deer hunting, I think over 10 deer have been taken with my loads.

The longest shot from the Marlin 1894s that are out there with my load was 135 yards and while it was a doe, it was DRT. The next longest was just over 100 yards and that buck didn't even know what hit him.

Here is a bullet that was recovered from one of the kills.



From the Marlin, I have been successfully getting upwards of 1800fps with any JSP/JHP you wanna throw down field. Accuracy has been good. Not MOA but good.

My personal load used to take hogs with employs a 240gr XTP though and is deadly at 1900+fps from either of my Marlin 1894 in 44Mag.

Since it is just a guess what you are going to be shooting them out of and what actual caliber it is, I'm not going to put any data out there.

p.s. Here are a few pictures of the performance my loads have done on deer. The ram was shot with the XTP load as well as the hog.













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Old 09-05-2010, 02:33 AM
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I am going to disagree with those who say not to share your reloads; however, I'm going to point out a couple things.

First off, have everyone you give reloads to, sign a simple liability waiver. Most lawyers will tell you it isn't worth the paper it's written on, but I disagree. When you actually get into a court room, with a jury, they're worth their weight in gold, even if the legal beagals tear away at them.

Second, pick a load that is impossible to over-charge. A key secret hidden within your initial post is very helpful. If you are loading 44 Magnums, use the IMR-4227. You can't get enough of it in a 44 case to get an overload. That said, you must follow the recipes as shown in the book (or the website). IMR-4227 is one of those grand powders that gives great accuracy in a bunch of guns, is very hard to over-load in most, if not all pistol calibers, and gives velocities that are plenty for what you're doing. They will be 5-15% below what you can get with the ultra-speedy powders, like W296/H110, but that's worth it, considering you are distributing your loads to others.

Third, do NOT sell or even barter any of your reloads to your friends. GIVE them to them, after they've signed the liability waiver. If you sell or barter them, you are running afoul of several federal laws. Worse yet, if anyone DOES have a bad problem with one of your reloads, there is something called an implied warranty, and that will put you on the legal hook for damages as well.

Fourth, if you choose any other powder, look for a load that is around 3% to 5% under max. Generally, this will give better accuracy than the max load, and it should be safe in any well-made firearm (and these loads will be fed into many, so figuring out a max load for one, won't give you what's safe for another, so just go with a load in between start and max, as suggested). It will still have plenty of velocity, even though you are not squeezing every last little FPS you can out of it.

Fifth, your question makes you sound like a relatively new handloader. Nothing wrong with that, but keep in mind there are a lot of little details that should not be missed when you are handing out ammo to other people to use in their guns, under their storage conditions, etc., etc. Such as: If some of your friends are using lever-guns and some are using pistols, make sure the loads are designed and built for the correct OAL for the lever-guns. They are much more sensitive about OAL, compared to the revolvers, and any round that is right for the lever guns is going to fit any revolver, but not vice-versa. Likewise, make sure you use a good and heavy roll-crimp. Not because 4227 needs it so much (not as much as 296, but it still improves ignition with this very slow, stick/extruded powder), as for (again) the lever-actions. You don't want the magazine spring pressure (combined with recoil) to over-power the crimp and push the bullets down. (Now, this is another neat trick because of 4227 - It usually fills the case 100% before you get to a max load, therefore, the powder column beneath the bullet will also support the bullet and will help the crimp prevent the spring from pushing the bullets deeper.)

Now, as far as the fun stuff - what bullet is better and what velocity/load, I'd pick the Speer Gold Dots. They are a very good-expanding bullet. Expansion isn't NEEDED with a large-bore pistol, like the 44 Mag, but it is NICE and the Gold Dot will expand more quickly (earlier in the wound track) and to a larger ultimate diameter than the XTP. I still like the XTP, but the Gold Dot would get my vote here, UNLESS your friends anticipate shooting at bad angles and not able to get (or be patient enough) for the classic broad-side shot. Then, I'd go with the XTP. As far as the load, go to Hodgdon's on-line data center and check the recipes for 4227. You'll find that the max loads are 100% load density and that they're pressures are considerably lower than max, and the velocity is still good, but not absolute max.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:38 AM
440turner 440turner is offline
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The firearm that I shoot is a 629 Smith and the friend in question has a 9 1/2" Super Redhawk, if anybody has the weak gun its me. I am a newer reloader with only about 3000 44 mag loads made and about 5000 45 acp's in the last year, in the years previous I would load about 2000/year but I have stepped up my reloading/hoarding efforts. I generally will shoot at least 300 mag rounds per month, and at least that many 45 acp per session. I think its funny how everybody thinks you only need a 180 slug to take down a giant deer, in the real world not every shot will find its mark perfectly, ie.. the heart. Me or my wife seem to hit a deer every year with are cars and havent killed a deer in several years, im talking about a 60 mph impact with a 2008 Grand Cherokee or a brand new Dodge ram. I have put slugs from a 12 gauge through deer and they still run 100 yards around here. Im not saying that a heart shot will not down a deer, but that doesnt mean it still wont run 100 yards, I have seen it happen only to collect the carcass and find broadheads in its body cavity from previous years hunting and slugs imbedded under there skin. Yeah in a perfect world your 180gn bullet will find the cofee mug sized heart of every deer you shoot out to 100 yards, and fall over instantly, but on my families 1000 acre farm that perfect scenerio happens far less than I think most people realize. I have made deer do back-flips after getting hit with a 12 gauge shot placed right at the front of the neck, but I question the knockdown power of a light 44 mag bullet. The farm we have has block permits for culling deer due to crop damage and I would guess that at least 40-50 deer are taken everyyear of this said land, so I do have a little knowledge and real life experience with these deer.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:08 AM
lafayne lafayne is offline
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I will chime in here on the reloading part. I do not load for friends. I do let them shoot my reloads in my firearms. I will instruct them and let them use my equipment to load for their firearms.

IMO it is better to let them be involved in the process and learn how to load properly. It expands the number of loaders and they gain knowledge.

I currently load for enough calibers that I can barely satisfy my own appetite for ammo.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:21 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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440,
Thanks for specifying what caliber you are loading for and the firearms that they are being shot out of. Your firearm is as strong as his except in the point of small parts wearing out. The cylinders are as strong, one or the other.

Enough heavy loads, with heavy bullets and your M629 is going to need some parts replaced but it ain't gonna blow up, friend. Not with loads designed for the 44Mag. Overcharges? Oh yeah, it'll blow then but so will the mighty Redhawk. Not only that, yours will be a lot better looking while you are shooting them!

All of that being said, I use a maximum load of H110/W296 for my loads. The XTP is an excellent bullet for deer but I much rather prefer a soft point for those around here. Like I said, not a 180gr.

I too have found that shots in the wild aren't textbook perfect. Recently on a hog hunt the same thing happened. We were stalking hogs using the terrain and wind to our advantage. Couple that with the guide's knowledge and we were golden! Well, I kicked up a decent size hog and it went about 40 yards and stopped directly to my left, down a hill and it was so thick with brush, I couldn't see it. The guide could, but I couldn't.

I went back to my Marine Corps training and low crawled to a point where I could see it. Not wanting to take all of the time to get to my knees or sitting position, I rolled over on my back, put the cross hairs on it's noggin and squeezed off the shot.

Well, the hog ran, we found little blood and I know the guide thought: "What kind of knucklehead do I have out here?"

To make a long story shorter, I had hit the hog, just not in the head. Since I was shooting with my rifle horizontal, the bullet's trajectory wasn't the same had the scope been over the top of the barrel rather than beside it. I hope you understand how I was shooting, laying on my back in a "standing, offhand" kind of position.

Anyway, the bullet entered the hog on his left shoulder, just high of the boiler room and exited through the right ham, shattering the rear leg bone. The hog ran 100 yards and laid down and had we not tried to push it, would have died there. When we found it, it got up until the wife put the '06 through it. Needless to say, DRT (Dead Right There).

The 240gr XTP is a good bullet for hunting and works exceptionally well from the rifle and should work fine in a 44Mag handgun. Keep the velocity towards the top of for the caliber and you will be OK.

p.s. What state are you in? Sounds like Indiana. Not may other states require a slug gun for deer hunting.

FWIW
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:14 AM
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I can't say I've ever seen a 180 grainer bounce off much of anything. I've deer hunted with the .357 magnum with 158's (successfully) and they certainly don't "bounce off".

I do agree with lighter pills at lower velocity you have to be much more selective with your shot(s).
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:38 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Exclamation Figure of speach!

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Originally Posted by rodell View Post
I can't say I've ever seen a 180 grainer bounce off much of anything. I've deer hunted with the .357 magnum with 158's (successfully) and they certainly don't "bounce off".

I do agree with lighter pills at lower velocity you have to be much more selective with your shot(s).
My point about that was a figure of speech, friend. Take it that way.

Sheesh!

The point was that the shot would have to be almost perfect with a 180gr bullet in 44spl, period.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:35 PM
Littledragon777 Littledragon777 is offline
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I use the 240 XTP over 23 grains of win 296 and CCI or WLP primers. I do not use the magnum primers and have never had one fail to fire even under very cold conditions. Accuracy is excellent out of my 9 1/2" Super Redhawk. It handles big Missouri whitetails with no problems and they make very large holes causing massive internal damage. I have also taken whitetail with the 180 grain XTPs also with excellent results.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2010, 06:45 PM
dla dla is offline
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hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littledragon777 View Post
I use the 240 XTP over 23 grains of win 296 and CCI or WLP primers. I do not use the magnum primers and have never had one fail to fire even under very cold conditions. Accuracy is excellent out of my 9 1/2" Super Redhawk. It handles big Missouri whitetails with no problems and they make very large holes causing massive internal damage. I have also taken whitetail with the 180 grain XTPs also with excellent results.
Have you ever chono'd your loads?
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  #24  
Old 09-06-2010, 12:09 AM
rodell rodell is offline
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hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455  
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Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
My point about that was a figure of speech, friend. Take it that way.

Sheesh!

The point was that the shot would have to be almost perfect with a 180gr bullet in 44spl, period.
I wasn't offended, I was playing back at you!. A 44 spl with a 180 gr keith-style bullet does some real damage. I find the 44 special to be a lot more than the 357's I hunted with.
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  #25  
Old 09-06-2010, 12:30 AM
HaroldB HaroldB is offline
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hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455  
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The XTP is a great bullet and will take anything in North America out of your 29.
But I'd be afraid to reload for other than myself.
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  #26  
Old 09-06-2010, 07:14 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455 hunting load opinions for 240gr XTP bullets,or Speer GDHP #4455  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodell View Post
I wasn't offended, I was playing back at you!. A 44 spl with a 180 gr keith-style bullet does some real damage. I find the 44 special to be a lot more than the 357's I hunted with.
Most times, on these forums it's hard to tell tenses of the posts.

No problem on my end either, friend!

I would like to see the 180gr Keith bullet. That may be different than an XTP and I would have to retract my statement!

Now, for groundhogs, 180gr is perfect from the Marlin. Flatter shooting and they are DRT! I've seen them little buggers run with 8-10 22LRs in them. Not so with a 180gr XTP @ 2000fps! Lays them right out!
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329pd, 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 629, bullseye, carbine, crimp, hornady, m629, redhawk, ruger, scope, sig arms

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