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  #1  
Old 09-21-2010, 11:47 PM
Professor Frink Professor Frink is offline
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OK so I need some help. I purchased a Lyman Crusher II kit. I’ve been reading and doing my best to start of right and keep things safe. I managed to get everything set-up and based on Lyman 49th Edition I was going to load 4.0 grains of Unique under a 158 SWC bullet.

With the Kit comes the Lyman 1000XP scale which I think is a piece of junk. It doesn’t consistently calibrate with the supplied 20 grain weight and weights seem to vary on the same load from as much as 0.4 grains up or down (i.e. I measure out a load that supposedly weighs 4.0 grains, then I re-weigh it 5 minutes later and the very same load comes in at 3.6 grains). So basically I’m very uncomfortable at the thought of loading anything with this crummy scale.

Can anyone recommend a good, accurate scale?

Thanks for any help.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:28 AM
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I have the Dillon. Either from them or I think Cabeas has it also. Made by Ohaus. Very easy to use and accurate. There are other good ones also. RCBS etc. For the price I think the Dillon is a good deal.

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:52 AM
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Denver Instruments MXX-123
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:11 AM
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You can't go wrong with a good old RCBS 10-10 scale. It's not digital, but it's just as accurate and it should last you a lifetime. I haven't worn mine out in 30 years, and it will easily go another 30!

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Old 09-22-2010, 01:30 AM
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Professor;
Digital scales need to be warmed up to be consistent. Try turning the scale on several minutes before you use it. I have the 1000XP (my RCBS digital scale {Really a Pact scale} failed after ten years of use). While waiting a month for it to be serviced, I bought the Lyman scale. It seems to work well for me, but digital scales need a bit of understanding to get the most from them. Perhaps after you use it some, you'll solve the problem.

I suggest you read the manual carefully. Florescent lights can interfere as will other electrical devices.

Good luck and hope you get to the bottom of your problems.

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Old 09-22-2010, 05:24 AM
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RCBS 10-10 scale is very nice. The older used Ohaus version is sorta tan and has grads of half grains I believe that allow you to accurately know by half grains how much over or under you are. Great for sorting bullets without have digital.
Acculab Vicon Digital VIC-123 is what I now use as my primary scale. Pricey. But lots nice features, and hs my full confidence. Both scales have excellent amounts of confidence but Reagan must have been a reloader as he once said, "trust but verify" for that I use the Lyman check weights. I simple and cheap "must have".
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:14 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Here is what I use or rather, used. This particular one was sent home with son #1 so he could get started reloading. The one that I have that is just like it is going to go to SIL #2 so he can start too. The one I am using is the Hornady that is just like these only red.



One of the scales I have is oil dampened, the other two are done magnetically. They are long out of production but can be had via the used market, especially on ebay.

FWIW
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:28 AM
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+1 RCBS/Ohaus 1010

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Old 09-22-2010, 08:28 AM
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+1 on SmithCrazy's scale. Look for Pacific or Hornady scales on the used market. You will be pleased.
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:51 AM
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I've been using the same RCBS 505 scale for many, many years. Never had an issue with it. Doesn't need batteries, no stray electrons to go wrong.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:04 AM
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I used an RCBS 304 scale when I was actively reloading. It is IIRC a twin beam dampened balance scale. Don't recall what I paid for it but the scale, once adjusted, was always dead on. I am just getting back into it after a 15 year hiatus.

A friend has the newer RCBS digital scale with the additional automatic powder measure that looks really cool, but the price is a little steep. The cheapest that I found it online was about $279 for the combo package of scale and measure. I guess it really depends on your budget.

As I sit here typing, I can hear my recently purchased RCBS vibrating case cleaner humming away making all of that dirty brass shine like new.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:06 PM
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Professor
Before you ditch the Lyman 1000 XP scales, I had the same problem with a brand new set of MTM Case-Gard electronic scales and after a deal of frustration I bought another set of new batteries to replace the ones supplied, and once they were installed the scales worked perfectly.
I check them for calibration fairly regular, they are very accurate and I haven’t had any trouble since.
It may just be something as simple as that.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:40 PM
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I have an RCBS and not a fan of the Dillon scales because when you trickle powder onto the Dillon scale, weight doesn't change and you can easily get 1 gr or so above what you are expecting which is a bit dangerous in my eyes. I did e-mail Dillon and they said their scales are designed to that and its not flawed.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:09 AM
Old 44 Guy Old 44 Guy is offline
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I started with a Redding scale years ago. Then I bought a Herters & used that for 20 years. Now I have a RCBS 550 that works just fine. Don't know anything about the new electronic scales.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:17 AM
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I have had a Pact BBK II scale for a number of years, a real *** in my view. Not trustworthy at all. As stated in an earlier post, too many things to affect it, lights, dirty power, cell and remote phones, wind, you name it. I called the factory and got bad juju from them too. I would sell it, but I would feel bad for burning someone else like I got burned buying mine. Thought that it would be a good 'Made in USA' purchase, what a joke.
Rant over!
I now use an O'haus 10-10 scale that I picked up at a sale for $10. Took it to the local O'haus factory repair center, they verified that it was reliable for no charge. Bought a set of check weights for verification and it's been off to the races aever since. A really good scale.
My 2¢ anyway.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:27 AM
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Sinclair makes a nice digital scale that's not too expensive. I think Midway carries them.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
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Sinclair makes a nice digital scale that's not too expensive. I think Midway carries them.
Sinclair Shooter's Supply was purchased by Brownell's but Sinclair is operated seperately. The only items that Fred Sinclair ever actually produced in house or partially in house were certain gauges, measuring devices, etc. They do carry RCBS, Lyman, Acculab, Redding, MTM and Hornady scales. Midway is a competitor of both Sinclair and Brownell's.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2010, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Rumbaugh View Post
I started with a Redding scale years ago. Then I bought a Herters & used that for 20 years. Now I have a RCBS 550 that works just fine. Don't know anything about the new electronic scales.
Someone else has Herters? I ditched their scales (took five mins to settle down) but still use the 100-pound single-stage press! That was one cool catalog!
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:13 PM
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I've owned a Ohaus 5-0-5 scale, now sold under the RCBS name, for over 30 years and haven't had any reason to get another type. Any of the RCBS balance scales made by Ohaus are top notch.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
Someone else has Herters? I ditched their scales (took five mins to settle down) but still use the 100-pound single-stage press! That was one cool catalog!
Ah, Herters....Finest obtainable, never before equaled! Yeah, I miss those catalogs, too.

Back in the 60s & 70s, I had a Herters O-frame that outweighed my car, and one of the oil-dampened scales. I also used to make buys from the Herters store in Lacey, WA for the McChord AFB Sportsman's Club, in the late 60s.

Cheap stuff that worked as advertised. Cabelas has taken to using the name on certain items, but they're not from Waseca (probably China)!
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:12 AM
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I have the Lyman. Mine is great. Not a single problem. If I had your problems, I would call Lyman. Don't wait until it is out of warranty or just sit around and complain.
Some things to watch for:
1) all balances need to be level
2) no balance should be on a workbench or exposed to vibrations of the press
3) electronic balances need to warm up for about 30 minutes
4) never store your balance-beam with the beam on the balance
5) Keep the balance-beam balance in a closed container
6) keep balances out of areas where aerosols are used
7) Never think that you can compare one balance to another and some how know which is accurate. You need class 2 check weights to verify a reloading balance. The calibration check weights are, at most, good for ±0.1gn and may be worse.
8) Never touch a check weight with your hand. Use soft-faced forceps or tweezers or clean cotton gloves. Keep check weights in box to prevent exposure to contaminated air, and, if possible, under desiccant.
9) Some electronic balances are not properly shielded and may be affected by line voltage variations or interference from electric motors or fluorescent lights with bad valances/transformers or flickering tubes.
Denver Instruments (used to be Ainsworth or they bought Ainsworth) makes great balances. I am still using the Ainsworth I bought when they first came out with an electronic balance for less the $600 (early '80s?).
You can also go whole hog and look at the Sartorius GCA2502 Milligram Balance or equivalent lab balance.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:17 AM
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I would change the batteries like suggested above. If that doesn't work contact Lyman since it seems that scale is fairly new. They will probably want to make it right since you bought a Lyman reloading kit it was part of.

If you buy a scale I agree with a lot of the above posts, buy an RCBS/Ohaus 5-0-5 or a 10-10 if you can swing the price.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:55 AM
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I have a Herters single stage brown press as well. You are right, the thing probably weighs 500 lbs.!!!

We need to start a Herters fan club!!
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:56 AM
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Wish I had bought one of those "world's most powerful handguns" in .401 Powermag! It could drop a charging bull elephant in one shot--Jacque said so!
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSR III View Post
I have a Herters single stage brown press as well. You are right, the thing probably weighs 500 lbs.!!!

We need to start a Herters fan club!!
Yeah, there is no flex in that puppy, but the lack of mechanical advantage got tiring when doing lots of resizing on my larger cartridges, e.g., .338 Norma Mag.

A Herters fan club might be a hoot! I still have several Herters items around, including a crow call that sounds pretty good, and a plastic elk bugle that sounds like someone stepped on his nuts!
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noylj View Post
I have the Lyman. Mine is great. Not a single problem. If I had your problems, I would call Lyman. Don't wait until it is out of warranty or just sit around and complain.
Some things to watch for:
1) all balances need to be level
2) no balance should be on a workbench or exposed to vibrations of the press
3) electronic balances need to warm up for about 30 minutes
4) never store your balance-beam with the beam on the balance
5) Keep the balance-beam balance in a closed container
6) keep balances out of areas where aerosols are used
7) Never think that you can compare one balance to another and some how know which is accurate. You need class 2 check weights to verify a reloading balance. The calibration check weights are, at most, good for ±0.1gn and may be worse.
8) Never touch a check weight with your hand. Use soft-faced forceps or tweezers or clean cotton gloves. Keep check weights in box to prevent exposure to contaminated air, and, if possible, under desiccant.
9) Some electronic balances are not properly shielded and may be affected by line voltage variations or interference from electric motors or fluorescent lights with bad valances/transformers or flickering tubes.
Denver Instruments (used to be Ainsworth or they bought Ainsworth) makes great balances. I am still using the Ainsworth I bought when they first came out with an electronic balance for less the $600 (early '80s?).
You can also go whole hog and look at the Sartorius GCA2502 Milligram Balance or equivalent lab balance.
Dang. You just sucked the fun right out of reloading.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vico512 View Post
Yeah, there is no flex in that puppy, but the lack of mechanical advantage got tiring when doing lots of resizing on my larger cartridges, e.g., .338 Norma Mag.

A Herters fan club might be a hoot! I still have several Herters items around, including a crow call that sounds pretty good, and a plastic elk bugle that sounds like someone stepped on his nuts!
I recently tossed some old "paint it yourself" fishing plugs from Herters and and old hunting knife my dad had since the '60s.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:27 AM
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A good balance beam scale such as the 1010. Digital scales are more trouble than they are worth. Lights, AC coming on, all sorts of things affect them. A good balance beam has all the accuracy you need for reloading, is unaffected by stray electrons, and unless you drop in on the floor, will last two lifetimes and still be accurate.
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:25 AM
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Think he is on sabbatical??
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:36 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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I could join the Herter's Fan Club but only by accident.

Here is a funny story that some will appreciate. I have a friend that was going to get into reloading. He stopped at a garage sale and saw a couple of old presses mounted to a sturdy wood table with a bunch of other stuff for just over $40. He bought it, brought it home and called asking me to come on over an take a look see.

When I got there, both presses were old Herter's open frame design. Frankly, I had never seen any "up close and personal" but they looked in good shape and heavy duty. Well, he asked if I thought he had gotten a good deal @ $40. I said I thought so but would check on ebay to see what they had gone for in the recent past.

So, I go to ebay, put a Herter's press on "watch" only to have my account "hacked into" by my wife to see what I was wanting to buy! She won the auction and on Christmas Eve had my son go bring the big gift up from the basement. When I opened it I tried to look surprised, well I was surprised, even if it was something I really didn't need or want!

Kind of cute, but oh so true!
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:13 PM
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Mechanical balance beam scale.

The hell with electronics--it will always let you down, sooner or later.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:17 AM
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I highly recommend a balance beam scale. It is really difficult to screw up a load with one. I've used the RCBS 505 for years.

A few weeks ago at Cabela's, I picked up their 1500gr electronic scale for ~ $80.00, took it home and set it up. It's a real nice looking package. It calibrated fine after a warmup, and I started comparing weights on it with my 505. Everything was within a tenth grain. All was well.

Then, I started playing with powder. I put scoop loads on the scale and compared them with the 505 with no problems. Then I started slowly trickling more powder into a load on the pan. The weight measurement did not increase! I found I could trickle scoop after scoop of powder onto it and never increase the weight indication if I did it very slowly. I could fill the whole pan with powder if trickled very slowly.

I took it back for a refund the next day and am perfectly happy with my 505 again.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:34 AM
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Crimp:
Just be sure that all your poise settings are correct (and you haven't worn or damaged any of the notches the poise goes into), that the bearing surface is clean, and the beam is straight. It is very easy to make a reading error with a beam and the mag- or oil-dampening also plays havoc with sensitivity.
I have had an electronic since Ainsworth first came out with one (late '70s maybe) and it, and my Lyman, and my RCBS electronic balances all work great for trickling. You can't judge a class by one member. The only balance that I have "lost" was an RCBS that got damaged during an interstate move.
Also, do not store the beam on the balance when you aren't using it and keep the whole unit under a cover when not in use so dirt, dust, and oils don't collect on it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:05 AM
ncbengal ncbengal is offline
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I recommend the Redding all cast iron, oil-puddle damping, no plastic, balance beam with machined razor edge pivot points scale, vintage 1963. Not available? Oh well, I'll keep mine - it is perfect.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:09 PM
shil shil is offline
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My RCBS/Ohaus 5-10 has been serving me well for 30 years plus and has given me no reason to change. I place it on the bench where I need it, zero it, set the poises to the charge I want, and go.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:36 PM
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Hello everyone, first post here and thought I'd chime in on my scale.

I'm currently using an RCBS Rangemaster 750 digital after using for many years the old stand-by RCBS 505. I prefer the digital because its faster for me and easier to read.

I should mention my first one went bad in 90 days but RCBS did replace it without any trouble.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:33 AM
smokemeister25 smokemeister25 is offline
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i have 3 scales. 2 balance beams and a digital.

the first scale was a lyman balance beam. still have it. i hate it. it was cheap

the next was an RCBS and it works well, just that it was hard for me to use. my eye sight isn't all that good for seeing up close.

my last is an RCBS charge master combo. i LOVE it. have checked it against the RCBS balance beam and they're close. a nice thing about it is that if it breaks for about 50 bucks they'll give you a brand new one. but i've been told by people who had a problem that RCBS didn't charge anything and replaced it for free.

granted it's in a whole different price arena but if you can justify and afford it i'd reccommend giving it a try. but the RCBS balance beams are accurate.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:56 AM
Harrison Harrison is offline
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I had another digital scale go bonkers on me. I dug out my 1010 scale that I bought in 1972, and still it works like a champ. It is slower to use than the digital but is dead accurate and consistent after all these years. Ohaus makes the 1010, but you can find them marketed under different names, RCBS is one. Dillon markets a good scale for $69.00.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:48 PM
smokemeister25 smokemeister25 is offline
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i just can't see the beam very well anymore... but my rcbs has always seemed to be a good unit and i agree with you about it being accurate.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:47 PM
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I have used a Redding manual balance for many years with satisfaction. I also have a Lyman digital, which is ok. I normally use it only when I am reloading a large quantity of rifle ammunition at one time, and I want to weigh every charge. I don't particularly like having to let it warm up for 30 minutes before use. Otherwise it seems to be consistent. You do need a set of calibration weights to check accuracy every so often. I made up my own set many years ago with the assistance of a chemical laboratory analytical balance capable of weighing to 0.1 milligrams. I made up a set of very exact weights - five of 10 grains each, and a couple each of 25 and 40 grain weights. But you can buy them.

When loading charges for handguns, I always throw 5 charges and take the average weight when I am setting up my powder measure dispenser, instead of throwing and weighing only one charge. I have found the Lee powder dippers are usually somewhat low, e.g., if you use a Lee dipper which is supposed to provide 42 grains, it will actually be closer to 40. That may be by design.

Last edited by DWalt; 11-27-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 PM
Hombre0321 Hombre0321 is offline
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There are trade off's in the use of any scale, how accurate do your loads need to be?

The digital scales work OK if you allow them to warm up and can live with the + or - a 10th of a grain. To get better accuracy than that with a digital you need to spend around $1,000 for a Lab quality scale. The beam type scales can be very accurate but they will need a good tune up to get to that absolute accuracy.

I shoot Long Range Benchrest as well as 1,000 yard F-Class. In this type of shooting a simple and small difference in powder charge of a 10th of a grain can and will make a difference between just shooting or shooting well enough to take home another one of those Fake Wood trophys. Accuracy in reloading takes on a whole nuther meaning at those extreme distances.

Now with that said the "Point Blank" Benchrest shooters who for the most part load at the range and never ever pre-load seldom ever weigh a charge. The throw all of there charges from a good powder measure like a Harrels. Can't argue much with there results as the world record 100 yard point blank score is .009. Yea thats right 5 shots at a 100 yard's and the group measured, less the size of the bullet, .009 of an inch.

I don't know how many of you guys need the type of accurate measuring that I and most Long Range Shooters "Think" we need. I load by throwing all of my charges with a RCBS Charge Master and throw them a 1/2 grain light. I then transfer the powder to a "Tunned" Beam scale and trickle to the disired weight.

I shot a 1,000 yard F-Class match this past weekend. My score for the 60 shots of record was 598-49X the X Ring in this shooting is a 1/2 MOA at a 1,000 yds or 5" the 10 ring is 1 MOA or 10 Inches. I was beat by a feller who shot a 599-15X. I know this man very well and he is a former National Champion, he also is 77 years old. I have been in his reloading room when he was preparing his match ammo. He use's a simple RCBS Pact type scale and never checks anything other than the calibration he does when he starts loading.

Maybe I need to re-think this whole accuracy of the powder charge thing.

Roland
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:34 PM
koop koop is offline
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I just got a Horizon Pro-50A electronic scale on Amazon for $45.99 shipped. It's accurate down to .02 grains and I'm actually quite impressed with how good it works. Of course, always back up everything you do with a good beam scale, but for convenience and good accuracy this scale is hard to beat. I'm actually surprised not more folks in the reloading community know about this little scale. For the money I've not found any other digital scale that comes even close; and I've scoured many reloading forums and read hundreds of posts and articles to research which scale to get. As far as I'm concerned this is a supreme deal for the money. Got it today, calibrated it, tared it. Everything appears to work flawlessly.
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