Pre 1988 Lee Engineering "Lee Loader" questions.

ImJustTired · #1 10-28-2010, 11:08 AM

Ok...I have been stumped again. I bought a pristine .38 Special/357mag "Lee Custom Eng., Lee Loader," and wrote to lee for an updated Load Chart card as most of the powders on the 1966 chart are no longer avail save the Unique powders. This was Lee's answer:::

"The Target Model Reloader, Lee Loader for shot shells, and Auto Prime with threaded shell holder was made by Lee Custom Engineering. For the whole story, read Richard Lee's article in Handloader's Digest, 17 th. ed.

Lee Custom Engineering has been out of business since 1988 and Lee Precision Inc. does not make parts for those tools. We are also not able to provide load data for any product produced by Lee Custom Engineering as we can not guarantee that the information is compatible with Lee Custom Engineering's products. We suggest contacting the powder company for any load data. We are sorry for the
inconvenience.

Thank You
Lee Precision"

Although I appreciate Lee Precisions position on this, there is no reasonable way to contact all the powder companies for this. Many of them no longer exist and those that do, do not support Lee Dipper information.

Can someone/anyone please scan in a .pdf format, a new load data card and instruction sheet for .38 special and email it to me?

I just need to know what modern powders are used and their grain for the given size bullet range for .38 Special using the Lee Loader.

I would especially like to know anyone using "IMR Trail Boss," powder with the Lee Loader, what grain and what sized dipper they use. IMR told me to contact Lee and Lee told me to contact IMR and neither answered the question. LOL

I took my vintage lee loader to a store that has new Lee Loaders and I compared them internally and externally, except for finish of the die parts and design of the box, all is the same, we measured internal and external as well as applied the moving parts to each other, everything fits perfect from vintage to new interchangably.

I will have to give Lee Precision a Kudos though. I had a set of vintage Pacific dies for .38 special that they exchanged out for a new 4 die set (carbide) for .38 special for $19.99. They would not trade/exchange for my vintage lee loader though. You just send in your old die set with a note on what you want back and add the funds. They send it right out very quickly. The exchange is good for equal exchange of cal/# of dies. Other calibers may be more or less, I do not know, contact them for details.

If anyone collects vintage reloading stuff and wants these (the Vintage Lee Loader and Dipper Set) I would trade both of them even up for a new Lee Loader set in .38 Special.

Just PM me here or email me at [email protected]

SMSgt · #2 10-28-2010, 11:37 AM

Almost all the powder companies provide current cartridge load data for their powders, althought not in "dipper" format. You'd need to purchase the listed powders and see which dipper provides that weight of powder that you want. Basicly, reloading is nothing more than repriming, adding powder and seating the bullet. The amount of powder is the biggest variable and most important.

I don't care for the dipper method of measuring. Is it always filled to the same lever, always packed to the same consistancy? A powder dropper is much faster and consistant. An accurate scale is essential.

ImJustTired · #3 10-28-2010, 11:54 AM

Oh, I agree. the dropper or trickler is better, but not for the application I am using. I do have a trickler at my loading bench but not practical to take to the range I go to or for extended camping/backpacking trips. I just want the newer load data card or trade what I have to a collector for a new kit with new data.

Chuck Jones · #4 10-28-2010, 04:15 PM

Just buy the Lee manual "Modern Reloading" By Richard Lee, it lists load data by grain, cc (volume), and dipper size. That should get you up to date. BTW My .38 lee loader is as old as yours and that's what I did.

/c

Jellybean · #5 10-28-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Jones

Just buy the Lee manual "Modern Reloading" By Richard Lee, it lists load data by grain, cc (volume), and dipper size. That should get you up to date. BTW My .38 lee loader is as old as yours and that's what I did.

/c

The only problem is...the Lee Engineering dippers and the Lee Precicision dippers are two different animals.

However, from what I understand, the Lee Engineering dippers are marked in cubic inches such as "039" would be .039 cubic inches. Get the manual and then find an online cubic inches to cubic centimeters calculator and find out what the CC equivilent to your dippers are, then you can use the manual as a guide from there.

Chuck Jones · #6 10-28-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellybean

The only problem is...the Lee Engineering dippers and the Lee Precicision dippers are two different animals.

However, from what I understand, the Lee Engineering dippers are marked in cubic inches such as "039" would be .039 cubic inches. Get the manual and then find an online cubic inches to cubic centimeters calculator and find out what the CC equivilent to your dippers are, then you can use the manual as a guide from there.

Should'a added that I bought and use a new set of Lee Precicision (cc) dippers for my ancient Lee Loaders. With or without the cubic inches vs. cc thing they're just too inexpensive and handy not to have.

/c

ImJustTired · #7 10-28-2010, 06:56 PM

TY guys, all I really need is the data card for the newer Lee Loader in .38. I do not reload any other carttridge either via Lee Loader or Lee Bench Press. Once I have that, I can get a new Lee Dipper to match the card. The old card calls for a .020 ci dipper and that is in the vintage Lee Loader I have. I need the photo copy/scan of the newer card card to find out which CC dipper is needed as well as the new covered powders.

Chuck Jones · #8 10-28-2010, 07:25 PM

Even if you're only loading .38 Spl. a set of dippers will allow you the widest range of bullet weights, powders, and velocities.

A full set costs $8.29 from Midway, they'd be cheep at twice that price.

According to my copy of Modern Reloading the .17 .3 .5 and .7 dippers are all used for the .38 Special and .38 Special +P.

/c

ImJustTired · #9 10-29-2010, 05:59 AM

Whoa, nobody said anything about +P... I would like to keep this discussion on the ground and not fly off in different directions. Load Data cards do NOT apply +P loads. They are starting loads for a given bullet grain range. I am trying to KISS this (keep it simple stupid) rather than inflicting a lot of un-needed info, data and tools. A Lee Loader only comes with one (1) dipper). That is what I want to replace, the card and (1) correct dipper.

I understand having all the new gadgets and loading manuals are a good thing, but not for my particular application.

I am looking for the following no more, no less.

1. Load data card for a .38 special for a Lee Loader. My application is Cowboy shooting as well as loading while extended stay camping.

2. I load ONLY one Caliber and 3 different 158 grain bullets. I just need the updated data card for powders/dippers on the card. My set is a 1966 and many of the powders are not avail. When I get the card, I will get NEW dippers.

jhvaughan2 · #10 10-29-2010, 08:08 AM

The load data sheet that comes with the dies appears to be available for purchase for $1.00.

Lee Precision,Inc. Serving You Since 1958

Jellybean · #11 10-29-2010, 02:52 PM

I'm sure the data and dipper listed above will work, but the classic loader parts are listed here...Lee Precision,Inc. Serving You Since 1958
In fact, the data sheet from the die set will give more data, while the data sheets from the few Classic loaders I have, none of which are .38 spl. unfortunately, only list data for the dipper that come with the set.

ImJustTired, your 020 dipper should be about .327....CCs, just a little bit bigger than the .3 dipper. Using the Lee manual, you should be safe using your 020 dipper and using 158 gr. lead bullets or the 158 gr. XTPs, with Accurate #5.

If you buy the .5 dipper that comes with the new kits, the only powders you can use with a 158 gr. lead bullet are:
Blue dot
American Select
IMR 800X
SR4756
For a 158 gr. jacketed bullet you can use:
VV-N350
SR4756
IMR800X
So you are pretty limited.

Anyway, where do you live in Ohio?

jimbo-indy · #12 10-29-2010, 03:23 PM

If someone wants a dipper set, I've got a complete unused set I got about 4 years ago and have never used. Never even opened the box. Should have a powder/dipper chart in the box.
It's free to someone who wants it. The OP gets first dibs.
All I ask is you pay shipping.
Send a PM if yu want it.

nicky4968 · #13 10-29-2010, 03:46 PM

Here is Lee's current dipper chart, free download in pdf format, from their site.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data...ct/Dippers.pdf

ImJustTired · #14 10-30-2010, 12:08 AM

JHVaughn: TY, that was exactly what I was looking for.

ImJustTired · #15 10-30-2010, 12:33 AM

Jellybean: Very good info...... The old included data card for Lee Loader (Lee Engineering 1966) was for the following bullets, powders...there is NO delination between lead Vs. Jacket Vs. Copper Plated on the older data cards as supplied with the Lee Loader.

Bullet Gr Powder gr
110-160 Hi-Skor 700x 2.4
110-180 Nobel Pistol #3 2.5
125-160 Hercules Bullseye 3.0
140-160 Nobel Pistol #2 3.8
180-200 Hercules Unique 3.0

All utilizing an Lee 1966 020 c.i. dipper measure as supplied in the Lee Loader kit from back then.

I have been shooting a 150 gr lswc #2 alloy with 50/50 alox/beeswax (Kieth style) with very old but stable Herc Bullseye at 3.o grains. This has worked well for CAS but now need to buy new powder as I am running out and needed to know what was on the new supplied data card. I was hoping Trail Boss was on the new data cards, but it is not. IMR will NOT supply information for dipper use and Lee will not supply info on Trail Boss use.

ImJustTired · #16 10-30-2010, 12:35 AM

PM sent to Jimbo, I want them.

Jellybean · #17 10-30-2010, 11:44 AM

3.0 grs. of Bullseye under a Lead 158 gr. bullet should give you an excellent load.