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  #1  
Old 10-04-2010, 02:55 PM
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Default Opinions on Titegroup vs. 231/HP-38?

I understand that Winchester 231 and HP-38 are the same powder based upon talking with Hodgdon. Titegroup is similiar in some ways, but definitely not the same powder.

If you were loading for the following cartridges which would be better and why? I load both jacketed and cast with these all except for the 9mm which is jacketed only. Also, I understand that neither will give top velocities in the magnums and such, I have other powders for that.

9mm Luger
38 Special
357 Magnum
44 Special
44 Magnum
45 Auto

Thanks,
Mark in GA
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:06 PM
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HP-38/W231 every day, hands down. Titegroup has never performed for me like the old standby. I also find it disconcerting that there is so little powder in the case. Even in the 45ACP you could put a triple charge in and still seat a bullet.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:24 PM
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I agree with Skip on each point.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:47 PM
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Yep, tried them all. Allway come back to 231 /HP-38. Meters great through my press, has enough volume not to get into too much trouble with an accedental double charge, resists moisture, and give very consistent chronograph readings. I load all of your calibers plus ten more, I have loaded somewhere in the 600,00-700,00 round range and have had only a handful of failures--most of that was primer problems.
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2010, 04:48 PM
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I use titegroup, and HP38.
Had good results with both and it would be a toss up. Recently I have found myself using a lot of Titegroup in my 38 special, 45acp, 44mag, and 500 magnum. Mainly because it has been hard for me to find HP-38 or W231.
For my 45 and 38 I really like HP-38, and thought the titegroup performed better in my 44mag and 500mag.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:08 PM
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I didn't think to include in the original post my planned/expected velocity ranges with these powders. Here are my thoughts:

9mm Luger 900-1200 w/ 115's, 800-1100 w/ 124's
38 Special 750-950 w/ 125's, 700-850 w/ 158's
357 Magnum 750-1100 w/ 125's, 750-1000 w/ 158's
44 Special 700-900 w/ 200's, 700-850 w/ 240's
44 Magnum 750-1200 w/ 200's, 750-1050 w/ 240's
45 Auto 750-950 w/ 200's, 750-850 w/ 230's

Mark in GA
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:09 PM
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Mark,
That didn't change my opinion at all!
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:30 PM
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I use a lot of TG for my 9mm and .45 acp loads. Just got a 1lb. of Herco and look forward to playing with it some for 9mm, .38/.357, .45acp and possible with my 7.62x25. I used Herco years ago and liked it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:27 PM
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I prefer W231 over Titegroup. Titegroup burns much hotter (in temperature). I noticed my gun heat up much quicker using Titegroup compared to W231. Leading was also worse with Titegroup.

But I like Bullseye better than either!
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
But I like Bullseye better than either!
That's what I say too! (Only he didn't ask that question! )
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:20 PM
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I have used and enjoy both powders. I have had better results with TG but I load on the light side of the chart when using TG. I have noticed the gun being hotter temp wise while using TG over 231 but it never bothered me.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:27 PM
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I personally would not limit myself to one powder for all those calibers.

But if I had to, I would pick Unique or Universal Clays, not HP38.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
I personally would not limit myself to one powder for all those calibers.

But if I had to, I would pick Unique or Universal Clays, not HP38.
I Love Unique also!!!!
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
I personally would not limit myself to one powder for all those calibers.
I will have at least 2 powders on hand for these calibers, maybe 3.

What I am considering is:

Fast - Titegroup or HP-38
Medium - Maybe HS-6 ?
Slow - Lil'Gun or H-110

Mark in GA
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:00 PM
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Well, that changes things a bit!

HP-38/W231 is a good choice for those loads in each caliber that are for putting holes in paper, 700-850fps or so. HS-6 is a great choice for taking it to the next level, the 1000fps range, while H110/W296(in handguns) is the better choice of the two you mentioned.

The reason I say that is because of the information about excessive barrel wear from Lil' Gun in revolvers. I use it extensively in pistol caliber carbine rifles, especially lever guns, and have had wonderful results with it. A 357mag that gives me bottom end ballistics of a 35 Remington and a 240gr XTP in 44Mag doing over 1850fps with acceptable accuracy is what I'm talking about.

The latter mentioned rounds have taken a few animals. The hog I shot with it lost his right eye and about half of his skull behind it at 60 yards. Needless to say, DRT. I also shot two rams and they too folded up pretty much where they were shot.

Out of a handgun though, especially my Smith M629 Classic with a 5" barrel, I use H110/W296. I get almost the same velocity as I would have with Lil' Gun but none of the worries recently attributed to it.

FWIW
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
I prefer W231 over Titegroup. Titegroup burns much hotter (in temperature). I noticed my gun heat up much quicker using Titegroup compared to W231. Leading was also worse with Titegroup. . . .
TiteGroup is not a good choice for cast lead bullets, due to its high burn temp. A bit of a pain to clean revolvers after shooting it. TG is fine with plated or jacketed bullets; cost effective with them too.

HP 38/Win 231 is a versatile powder.
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2010, 04:51 AM
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The original powder trinity is Bullseye, Unique and 2400.

My powder trinity is W231(HP-38), W540(HS-6) and W296(H110)

I can load any handgun caliber with any bullet with those 3 powders and do it well. I'm a huge fan of W231/HP-38 for the .38 Special/45 Auto/9mm. I just won't do without HS-6, it's a great powder as long as you use a Magnum primer along with it. What's not to like about W296? It provides top velocities and good accuracy in Magnum calibers. I do have a bunch of other powders on my bench, I have used at least a dozen others but I always come back to those 3 powders.

As for Lil'Gun, I only use it with heavy bullets in .357 Magnum ammo that are going to be shot from my Marlin Carbine.

Hope this helps a little...
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Last edited by ArchAngelCD; 10-05-2010 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:30 AM
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Long time ago I found that I preferred W231 over TG, however during the great shortage I ran out of W231 and none was to be found. I switched to Unique this summer and so far like it for 45 acp & colt.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2010, 07:28 PM
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W231 = FTW !!!
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  #20  
Old 10-07-2010, 11:49 AM
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Been using H-38 in my .45 ACP and 9mm Mak reloads. It meters and works so well I decided not to try to fix what isn't broken. Once I set my dropper, the loads never vary. 3.1 grns one the first drop is still 3.1 on the 100th.

Clean? That's subjective, but I clean after every range session, so it really doesn't matter. Washing a weeks worth of dirt off a car isn't any harder than washing two weeks worth off.
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357 magnum, 45acp, bullseye, carbine, chronograph, colt, m629, primer, remington, universal, winchester

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