Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Smile short barrel 629 loads

I recently purchased a special edition mountain 629 with a 2.75" barrel. Prior to buying this I had read that the Smith & Wesson is not quite as stout as the Rugers, ect. With that in mind, what is the maximum managable load for a short barrel 629?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:23 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,027
Likes: 1,061
Liked 774 Times in 375 Posts
Default Welcome to the forum!

The S&W 29/629 will handle any load that is within SAAMI spec, whether one listed in any handloading manual, or any of the various mainstream factory rounds. I say mainstream, because there are a few loads available from Garrett Cartridges, and Buffalo Bore that are loaded to higher than standard pressures, or are too long for the S&W cylinder.

It is always wise to start low and work up if you are using handloads, and if you are using factory loads, some of the mid-range loads may be a good place to start.

I say that because that gun is rather short and light for a 44 magnum, and what it will handle is more dependant on what you can handle than what it can due to the recoil level.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-25-2010, 01:49 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thumbs up

It is a ported model, so that helps.
I have gone through a box of 50 rounds of Magtech 240gr with no discomfort at all. It has real nice hogue soft grips on it that do a good job on the recoil combined with the ported barrel.
So, do you have any experience shooting 270 or 300 grain bullets from something like this?
I intend to use this as my hunting backup. I live and hunt in bear country, so I trust the heavier bullets for this job. I choose the mountain gun for its quick and light handling in those situations. Can you recommend a specific load for those rounds? I do reload.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2010, 02:56 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Short barrel 629

Any load data for heavy bullets in a short barrel 629...270 or 300 grn? I see that Hogden and Speer have some for those weight bullets, but none specifically for short barrel 44's.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2010, 03:17 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,027
Likes: 1,061
Liked 774 Times in 375 Posts
Default

Short barrel or long, 2400, H-110/296 (same exact powder) and Lil'Gun will give the highest velocities.

A lot of guys see no reason for using heavier than standard bullets, but I do. They not only outpenetrate lighter bullets, but they tend to deliver the best accuracy. One reason is that the longer length helps keep the bullet ligned up in the throats and then into the forcing cone and barrel better than shorter bullets do.

The accuracy issue isn't set in stone as all guns are an entity unto themselves, but it holds true in general terms. As for there being more recoil with heavier bullets- I call BS on that. I know that there are lots of mathmatical equations to say it's so, but recoil is always a subjective thing due to many reasons, and as a rule, lighter bullets started at higher velocity will give approximately the same level of perceived recoil as heavier bullets at lower velocity will. Only when bullets of different weight are fired at the exact same velocity will the heavier bullet give more felt recoil.

As for loads,
Try working up to the following as they are safe maximum loads for any sound condition S&W-

23 gr H-110/ Fed 155 primer/ 275 cast Performance WFN for around 100-1150 fps from your short barrel.

20 grains of H-110 with the same primer and the CPFBC 320 WFN for around 1050 from your gun.

If you want to use a jacketed bullet in that range, try working up to 22.5 grains of H-110 under a 300 Speer plated soft nose for around 900- 950 from your gun.
also the 270 grain Gold Dot over 21 gr of the same powder for around 1150 fps from your gun.

Start low and work up as always, while watching for any signs of excess pressure like sticky extraction. Primer condition is a poor way to read pressure BTW, but it's one of those things that gets passed down from generation to generation. A good chrono is much more reliable if you know how to use and read it.

There are a lot of good and knowlegable guys here who are more than glad to offer help, and maybe some of them will also chime in and offer suggestions of their own.

Happy Thanksgiving to both you and all the forum members !!!

Last edited by Gun 4 Fun; 11-25-2010 at 03:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-25-2010, 04:56 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

That is just what I wanted to hear. I happened to have just picked up a box of the Gold Dot 270's but hadn't found much data on it.
I do a lot of rifle reloading, but not much pistol until now. I just found a batch of once-fired CBC 44 brass. I also just found that it is Magtech stuff. Any problem with quality there?

I agree with your comment on the larger bullets and recoil. I would think that felt recoil would be more a function of muzzle energy than anything else. In general, if you load a heavy bullet hot enough, the rocoil would be greater than the same load with a lighter bullet. That normally doesn't happen though, right? With this in mind then, it must be a marketing trick to sell loads for short barrel pistols that have greatly reduced charges (muzzle energy is only about 600, and velocity about 800 with a 240g bullet).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-25-2010, 05:34 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,027
Likes: 1,061
Liked 774 Times in 375 Posts
Default

If at all possible, get yourself some Starline brass. It is the best stuff out there these days. It's heavier in the wall section, and will last longer when using full power loads. They have very good QC there too.

The heavier case will cause slightly higher pressures, and correspondingly higher velocity, so again, start low and work up.

I have some Mag Tec brass that is still going strong after being loaded many times with Linebaugh level .45 Colt loads.

As far as the factory short barrel loads goes, you need to remember that the factories use non cannister powders that aren't available to the rest of us, and they can come up with specialized loads that we can't.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
Banned
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hoosier Land!
Posts: 4,379
Likes: 587
Liked 576 Times in 307 Posts
Default

I am one of them that sees no need for a heavier bullet in 44Mag. 240gr will get it done on most, again I say most, North American animals and any two legged targets too.

That doesn't mean that I am against the heavier bullets, just if I want them, I go to 45Colt and Ruger only or John Linebaugh's loads.

Gun4Fun has given some loads to try, I would if I had those weight bullets.

I understand the accuracy issues but a one hole group at 25 yard is as good as you can get in my opinion!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2010, 09:43 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

smith Crazy,
Thanks for that answer. Some times it may be a confidence thing too. I would just feel a bit more assured that a 300gr bullet would stop a grizz compared to a 240gr. One of my hunting buddies was mauled a few years ago. This is just a
third or forth measure of protection, especially fishing high country out of hunting season when I would be more likely to have a rifle with me.
I like your verse too!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-25-2010, 11:01 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,027
Likes: 1,061
Liked 774 Times in 375 Posts
Default

One other load that you may want to try is 10 grains of Unique under a 300 grain cast bullet. It is one of John Taffin's favorite loads, and since he always recommends it on both the forum he frequents and in his articles, I decided to try it. I am getting an average of 1085 fps from a 6" 629, and an old 4 screw 29 with a 6.5" tube.

The recoil is well below that of full power loads which would make for faster follow up shots, it's much easier on the gun, and that 300 grain cast bullet will penetrate as well as or better than any 240/250 cast bullet moving 200 fps faster.

In your short barrel, you should be able to get somewhere around 900-950 fps. I have found that with mid-range loads like these, there isn't that much of a velocity difference between longer barrels like mine and shorter ones like you are using when fired across an actual chrono.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-26-2010, 02:10 PM
Snapping Twig's Avatar
Snapping Twig Snapping Twig is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 527
Liked 3,813 Times in 1,243 Posts
Default

I shoot a 3" 629-2 and use my standard long barrel loads in it.

Two levels of power, neither a nuclear option, both hard hitting and accurate.

Both in magnum cases and WLP primers, here they are:

265g cast from Lyman 429244 over 22g W296/H110. This is a magnum load giving something in the 1200fps arena which EK himself said was the optimum speed/power for the round. A little heavier bullet is my contribution for penetration and boy do they penetrate!

250g Keith from the Lyman 429421 over 7g W231/HP38. This is @ 900fps and what EK called a "useful special". 900fps is a sweet spot for heavy rounds. Penetrate, accurate, low recoil, great trail round, able to take anything that threatens you, a pleasure to punch paper. It's my personal opinion that this is a direct eqivalent to a .45LC with a nod to better penetration and less drop due to a better SD.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-26-2010, 04:42 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

That sound real good. I will have to pick up the hard cast bullets and some Unique. Right now, I have 2400 and Enforcer using just the stuff in the Sierra book.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2010, 05:18 PM
Jelwyoming Jelwyoming is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast wyoming
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I went and picked up some new brass, a lb. of Unique and some 300gr. TC hard cast bullets to try this out. Sound great.
While I was there, couldn't pass up a deal on HSM box of 50 240gr reloads for 18.98. I thought that was deal. Any one have feed back on those?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:27 PM
Paul105 Paul105 is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 580
Liked 1,839 Times in 603 Posts
Default

When I first got my 329 PD, I tried some 300 and 325gr Bullets with the following results:

New WW Cases
CCI 350 Mag Primers
H110
19.5 gr
Temp 70 Deg F
Front of chrono 5 paces from muzzle

300gr Keith from Mt Baldy Bullets............1,064 fps
300gr LBT WFN from Montana Cast..........1,052 fps
325gr LFNGC from Beartooth Bullets........1,043 fps

Hodgdon doesn't list specific data for the first two bullets, but does for Beartooth's 325gr LFNGC (Start 20.0gr H110 and Max 22.0gr H110). Every gun is different, but you'll most likely loose some velocity with the 2.5" vs. the 4" of my 329.

The Hodgdon on line data manual has a lot of current load data if you are using their powders.

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

Here's a source for cast bullets -- lots of stuff you can't find elsewhere, excellent products, outstanding service, and fairly short delivery times.

Quality hand-cast bullets for reloaders, competitors, and recreational shooters - Montana Bullet Works

I carry the 329 as a backup when bow hunting elk in Montana (it is also my all day every day carry gun). It is loaded with 260gr WFNGC (From Montana Bul Works) over 23.5gr H110 -- this load runs about 1,250 fps from the 4" 329.

Personally, I can't detect any difference in recoil between any of the above loads.

FWIW,

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:37 PM
Paul105 Paul105 is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 580
Liked 1,839 Times in 603 Posts
Default

A couple of more things that I forgot to mention above.

1. Crimp Jump -- make sure you test your ammo to make sure your chosen bullet isn't moving under recoil -- it can tie up your cylinder at the worst possible time. That is one of the reasons I choose the above mentioned 260 gr WFNGC -- it has a very short nose -- it would have to move a lot to protrude beyond the cylinder face.

2. Make sure you are aware of the potential for unwanted lock engagement. I know some say this can't happen -- I assure you it can.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-27-2010, 10:07 PM
Groo01's Avatar
Groo01 Groo01 is offline
Member
short barrel 629 loads short barrel 629 loads  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: central ohio
Posts: 1,385
Likes: 949
Liked 826 Times in 488 Posts
Default

Groo here
If you are making a bear defense load start with a hard bullet.
There is no need or want for an expanding one as what you need is
to drive deeply.
The loads that are faster for a long barrel are usually faster in a short
one.
The blast or flash is really not important as the ranges are short
[ sleeping bag distance] nor is the accuracy .
Quick repeat shots usually not a factor as the time of the attack
will be short [you get him ,he gets you] nor quick reloads either.
But extra shells are a must for finishers.
Also as a Bear can out run a horse over short ranges, the chances of you defending your self are low, the gun is so you can help someone
else in your party or them you [ run up and shoot him bear in the ear as he works on your friend]
If you can shoot a cylinder full the round is ok.
Practice with something lighter.
This from an instructor I had at Thunder Ranch that helped lay out
the oil pipeline up north and helped the write the book
for the oil workers.

Last edited by Groo01; 11-27-2010 at 10:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
44 magnum, 629, cartridge, colt, crimp, hogue, lock, mountain gun, primer, ruger, sig arms, starline

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best short barrel 45 ACP loads Practical Ammo 7 11-24-2013 03:55 PM
loads for first short barrel 44 mag mike smith 1002 Reloading 11 12-12-2012 07:55 PM
Any 130rnfp .38 short barrel loads Simmer down Reloading 0 02-27-2011 09:13 PM
Short barrel defensive loads. Rule3 Reloading 6 08-14-2010 03:17 PM
Buffalo Bore tactical short barrel .357 loads Andy Taylor Ammo 4 01-29-2009 07:16 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)