thinking about one... pros/cons

recomendations???

A pretty general question without knowing how many and what calibers you intend to load for. Rifle, handgun, both? How many rounds per month? Reloading experience?

Dillon 550..you will never out grow it.

Dillon, Hornady LnL, in that order. When you are done with the list, start over!

All kidding aside, handgun only, Square Deal B. Great press, only drawback I've thought about is the proprietary dies.

For a true progressive that will do rifle calibers, XL650 and yes, spend the extra to get the case feeder, you will never regret it!

The Hornady LnL is another good press. It just hasn't been out there too long and I never buy something that is just recently released. Maybe next year I'll get one.

If you want a pseudo progressive, the RL550. Any press that doesn't do auto indexing is not a true progressive. At least that's how it is in my book!

Hornady LnL. All the features of a Dillon 650, less $, equal warranty/service, and it is RED. I've got around 140,000 through mine. The auto index is a great feature that the 550 doesn't have.

If you are reloading pistol don't even think about a single stage. If you want to be cautious learning, you can load one round at a time until you are proficient.

Are you reloading here? http://confluence.org/confluence.php?visitid=3300

a single stage for my rifle loads and turret for pistol.... looking at it for pistol and .223 for ar15 production

Just starting out, loading for rifle and handgun, shoot less that 200 rounds a week, money an issue, then a single stage press is fine and a lot less expensive. Less likely to make a major mistake with a single stage. Best to learn the process.

Progressive press at 3 to 10 times the cost. Higher cost for different calibers. Requires more set up time or much larger investment for quick change. Great for loadng mass amounts of ammo and if you shoot 500 rounds or more a week then it may be well worth it. Requires a little more attention to detail as multiple functions go on with each pull of the lever.

As I load for several calibers and cartridges, many of which I don't shoot a lot of, I have both types of presses. The progressive to load up .45, .38 spl and 9mm. The single stage for all the others.

If for some reason you decide to pass on the progressive press, there is one true turret press capable of turning out match grade ammo. The Redding T7 turret press will last a life time.

The Lee Turret Press will turn out match grade ammo too and quicker than most any other turret press out there.

Setup time is NILL when you have a progressive press with removable heads, i.e., Dillons. I am sure that the LnL with the quick change bushings will be about as quick.

The Square Deal B change over can be made quicker with a little ingenuity. Like this:

No added cost. Simply set the press up the first time and stop, measure, write down the numbers on the inside of the caliber change box, next time, start with those numbers and adjust from there.

This can be done with any reloading press, not just progressives. It is a little more difficult for the powder die, you have to remove the Dillon powder measure, one Allen bolt.

I just went through this exercise and decided on the Dillon 650. It was between that and the Hornady LnL. The Dillon won out simply because the dealer (and all his accessories) is 10 minutes from my house. You can't go wrong with either choice.

After 40+ yrs of reloading I stepped up to a Hornady L-n-L AP from a Lee 4-place turret press and a Lyman single stage press. I spent time searching the web for info on Dillion, Lyman, Lee, and Hornady progressive presses and decided on the Hornady after watching videos on You tube. I got a great deal from Grafs and Hornady will give you 500 bullets with this purchase to the end of the year. I still will use my single stage for most rifle and my Lee for load development small batches. The Hornady will work with any brand of die you just need to order quick change bushings for each die.

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Revolver luvin' Mountaineer

You can go with the flow and buy a Dillon. You can go against the flow and buy a Hornady. The Lee isn't in the flow.

BE Mike, I've heard that old saw about even a dead fish can go with the flow. I like to think more like Dillon aint flowing by, they're flying high.

My wife and I own a pair of XL650s and one old Rockchucker. The 650 we keep set up for small primers has toolheads with dies adjusted for 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, and 357. The large primer press has toolheads set up for 44 Special, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt. I can also run 454 Casull, 44 Russian and 45 Cowboy Special with about 5 minutes of minor adjustment. A few hunting rifle calibers ranging from 6mm Rem. to 45-70 and Auto Rims for my New Service and S&W Brazilian fall to the Rock Chucker.

Bought the first 650 about 1999, added a piece at a time since then, including two case feeders, and I've never had a regret.

I've had my red Hornady LNL-AP for quite some time, and their customer service is top notch. I just got through loading a few .38's on it. I've got three custom shellplates their service department made right up for me- one for .410 brass, .56-50 Spencer and 6.5 Japanese and were quick and reasonable on each one- all I had to do was send in some brass. I'm sure Dillon would do that too, but the guys at Hornady were quick, friendly and listened to my needs. Who would want more?

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Always get an auto-indexing press - much safer.

Although I have a high regard for Hornady, when it comes to progressive loading presses Dillon is the leader in the field as far as I'm concerned. I have one, will soon buy another and eventually a third one.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Years ago i had a Dillion 450? and it was a fine press for its time . I got out of reloading for a time and sold it. Replaced it with a Rock Chucker for rifle and pistol which did fine when time and $$ let me back into the game. A year or so ago i bought a Hornaday LNL AP and its what I wish I would have had years ago. The only problem I have had with it is that 45 Auto Rim would hang up on the ejecting cycle but, a quick call to Hornaday and a new shell plate cured that. Hornaday is AA++ in my book.

"Always get an auto-indexing press - much safer"

After about 130,000 rounds and a few stuck primers the auto index star on the bottom of my LnL broke. I called Hornady and they suggested I replace the star and the pawls, and put them in the mail no charge.

I had to load a couple hundred pistol rounds while waiting the couple days, and got to index my press by hand, just like a Dillon 550. If the only advantage of the LnL over the 550 was auto indexing it would be worth it to me.

I also shoot a variety of different rounds from 300WSM to .380 auto. All my dies live in their own bushings, so changing calibers is quick, easy and relatively inexpensive.

I learned to reload on a Lee progressive. Not a fun deal. My friend loaded on it for a few years, then bought a LnL. He enjoys reloading now.

Hornady L-N-L AP if you have a number of cartridges to load, and particularly if you need to switch large/small primer sizes. It is much easier to do caliber changes in the Hornady.

Funny, the Hornady vs. Dillon debate has been ongoing for many, many years, and I am seeing a lot of folks finally getting in the Hornady corner. I have had 2 of the L-N-Ls one for 10 years, the other about 7, now and have been totally pleased. The only problem, besides the case retaining springs which will twist and break eventually (easy and cheap to replace, or Hornady may just send you some) was when I tried to force a 9mm case one time and broke a pawl. Hornady had a new one to me within 24 hours. I was amazed.

If you plan to load rifle cartridges as well, I think the auto advance turret presses, like the Lee Classic or the Redding are a good option.

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" I said, good DAY! "

I agree with VAdoublegunner, this song has been sung many, many times. Long story short, I'm also in the Hornady corner.

Dillon's are nice machines, and so are Hornadys. Dillon service is very good, so is Hornady service. Feature for feature, Dillon is more expensive. I also agree that, compared to Dillon, the Hornady LnL is quicker, easier, and cheaper to change calibers and primers. There are other nuances I like better with the LnL, but I'm not looking to write a thesis here...

I don't think you can go wrong with a Dillon, or a Hornady. There are definitely more Dillon machines out there, so I would expect there will be more favorable responses regarding Dillon; there's more of them... I would suggest the OP have an open mind, do some research, and really understand the features, benefits, and loaded costs before making the plunge. I am very happy with the value, speed, and quality results I get with my LnL.

Everyone has their opinion, and experience, this is mine...

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NRA Life Member

I never loaded before I bought my 650 xl DILLON. what a machine. It's hard for me to believe somebody does it better. I love the thing did 1500 rounds of .357 yesterday. Not one burp.. It eats. I just had dillon rebuild the thing 57.00 bucks..like new.

Just go ahead and drink the blue kool-aid. You'll never look back...

The Hornady vs. Dillon debate only got serious the past few years when Hornady improved their primer system. Before that, the Dillon was the hands-down best. Now, I think the Hornady is a very good option for a progressive and may be the best bargain.

I have loaded on Star, Hollywood, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, and Dillon presses. I have Dies of many brands and have no major complaints with any of them.
Star and Dillon are the only progessive I have used. The DL650 is a great press but I can get plenty of ammo (200-300 rounds per-hour) out of a DL550. I like them so well I have two (one for large primers and one for small) , I am a real finatic about primer seating and don't like the change over time for Dillon primer feeds.
I have loaded pistol and rifle on the Dillons and am very happy with them. By the way according to a G. David Tubb video the 550 was used to load Palma Match Ammo.
Dillons customer service is second to none. Gremlins have carried of a few locater pins in the past and they were replaced at no charge by Dillon.

I agree A+ 550B

I have a Dillon 550 and it is great. One nice thing abou it is you can reload an unbelieveable number of different calibers.

I agree, especially when you hear about these people with Dillons that buy two machines, one for small and one for large primers. Talk about expensive, getting even more expensive...

This is done because changing out primers is not real quick and easy with the Dillon. You don't hear about too many people buying 2 Hornady LnLs for this reason, because it is quick and easy to go from small to large primers. I suppose it is more convenient, regardless of manufacturer, to have two machines for large and small primers, but again, the Hornady set up is very easy to change over.

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NRA Life Member

And this is why I went with Dillon. The Hornady stories are often accompanied by "the only problem...".
The only argument against the Dillon is $$. I have the $$$ and I thought, why not go top shelf?!

That being said, my research on the Hornady showed it's a true performer with a good Customer Service rep. Not a bad (second) choice.

I'm glad you like your Dillon, they are a very good machine. And, not to be smug, but I've got the money, too. But after researching both brands, and talking to folks that own both, and loading on both Dillon and LnL machines, I decided that the Hornady was the best choice for me... I really do think the LnL is the best choice, and do not feel it is second to any other machine, it's top shelf quality. But, different strokes, for different folks. I've got no 'the only problem' experiences with mine.

Hey, who knows, maybe some day I'll get a nice Dillon set-up too, just to spite myself!

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NRA Life Member

I have the Hornady LNL, I've never used a Dillon, all I know is what I've read about them.

One thing to consider: all presses have the occasional stoppage. From what I've read, I think the LNL is easier to recover from stoppages. With it's retaining spring, it is easy to remove shells from all positions of the shell plate. No buttons/pins to remove, drop, or lose.

I think Hornady's bushing system is superior to the toolhead/turret of other presses. The bushing system makes it easy to set up the dies because each can be added/removed individually without losing settings.

At the beginning of each session, I remove all the dies except for the powder measure, throw charges and adjust until it correct, then I can plug the dies in and start loading.

I read one of the Dillons (not sure which one) primer handling has a problem - it doesn't handle the "no case present" condition. If there is no case to seat the primer, it is dumped on the floor. It always grabs a new primer from the magazine even if it has no place to go. The LNL doesn't do this - you can cycle the press with a full magazine and no cases on the press and it won't dump primers on the floor. It has been a few years since I've researched presses, so Dillon may have fixed this by now.

Good points, John. The 'no case present' primer handling of the LnL was one of the advantages that resonated with me at the time I purchased my press.

Also, with the Hornady powder measure, I just use the LnL powder inserts when changing calibers, just pop one out, and click another in. I never have to adjust powder throws with these inserts; very easy to change. I would imagine other powder measures have this feature, but I'm not sure...

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NRA Life Member

The point about early Hornady L-N-Ls having a primer mechanism issue is valid. They had a plastic piece that was prone to cracking/breaking. That was fixed nearly a decade ago.

Dillon's are good machines, many people seem satisfied with them, and they have learned to work with their quirks. Those who do not acknowledge there are a number of quirks about them only need to search a few threads to find that they do exist, and yes, the Hornady's may have on occasional problem too. Although it may not have always been the case and was long one of the main selling points for Dillon, both companies now offer the same level of support and service as well. That is no longer a valid issue for comparison. But in terms of user friendliness and adapatability, you'll have to go with a Dillon 650 to get the features of an L-N-L. And you will still have the same issues with primer changeover, additional costs for toolheads, etc to keep it competitive for changeover speed, if not cost, as in the lesser models.

You really can't go wrong with a Dillon 650. And you really can't go wrong with a Hornady L-N-L. You just have to decide which one fits your pocketbook and has the user features, maintenance aspects, operation/set up ease and adapatability for your needs that you find important to you. I went with an L-N-L. In fact I now have 2 of them. I am more than pleased.

Isn't it a great time to be a handloader with all these great choices!

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" I said, good DAY! "

Yes it is!

BTW sometimes I play a little rough and hope I didn't offend anyone. As others have correctly stated, the LnL is one fine machine and the OP wouldn't go wrong if that was his choice.

Any progressive takes a little dose of mechanical aptitude to set up and run. Personally, I like to tinker so that's part of the recreation.

I think the Hornady bushing system is pretty neat. I have a blue press, so I don't get to take advantage of that particular feature.

I load handgun rounds on a progressive, rifle rounds (low volume hunting/target) on a Redding turret. It isn't that the progressive can't do the rifle rounds, but I have had the Redding and 60 sets of dies for years!

As far as caliber changes on the blue press, I can do it in <2 minutes. People who talk about 20 minute changes must drink a lot of coffee. It sounds a lot worse than it is, and, I was initially worried about it.

There are tips and tricks to any progressive, and, they do require maintenance. You need to keep them clean and lubricated, regardless of brand.

I wouldn't think twice about buying either brand if it appealed to me for any particular reason. I bought blue because I'd always wanted to and I don't regret it. If Redding had made one, I would have bought that!

I am 72 years old and retired. I usually shoot about 50 rounds of 38 Spc every week. I could easily afford a Dillon, but I really don't want or need one. I enjoy using my Rock Chucker press and can load as good a round as anybody can on a progressive press. I realize peogressives are faster, but I don't need to reload a thousand round per week.....so for me a single stage press is fine. I have dies for most popular caibers. I have not fired a 30-06 in about a year or so. In short, my RCBS Rock Chucker press does any thing that I want or need.

I couldn't agree with you more, bamacisa.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a good single stage press. I would hazard to guess that most of us who have progressives started on one and still have it. And use it.

If you really enjoy the act of handloading, and like to craft the best of precision loads, a good quality (and get a really good quality one, it will last forever) single stage is a pleasure to use.

I handload some of my own defensive ammo (it is solely my choice and a conscious personal decision to use it for that purpose) and it is always made up on my Rockchucker, with hand seated primers in new brass with clean flash holes and pockets, brass trimmed square to uniform length, every load precisely checked for charge and OAL. I *know* it will work. I do the same with precision hunting loads. It is not about volume sometimes. It is precision, or the pleasurable act of creating your own ammo, that makes a good single stage almost a first 'must have' for every serious handloader.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Dillon 660

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Old Shootist

I bought a Dillon Square deal ( will only load pistol calibers ) about 28 years ago and it has served me very well- but at the time I bought it I had no interest in reloading rifle calibers. About 12 years ago that changed, so I went out and bought a RCBS Rock Chucker. The combo works OK for me, but if I had known then what I know now I would get the Dillon 650 which will do it all and has the auto index feature that the 550 does not.

By the way, Dillon's customer service is simply the best!

chief38

The Dillon 550 is arguably the "go to" press for those who shoot ALLOT. It's costly(!) up front but will serve a lifetime.
That said, if your not willing/ready for that kind of an investment or just shoot less, The Lee Classic Turret is a very nice "in between." Still cranks out 150 rounds/hr but being a semi progressive, gives you more control/visibility into the process. Cost is less than $200 complete .

FWIW, I recently sold off my Dillon Square deal ( which I never liked) and got the Lee Classic Turret. No regrets here.

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Dave

Dillon 550 you can't go wrong.

Those who consider the 550 a pseudo- or semi -progressive, let me submit this question. The Lee turret is auto indexing. It takes 4-5 pulls of the handle to produce a loaded round. The 550 produces a loaded round with each pull of the handle. Which is a progressive?

My Rock Chucker is a 1975 model running strong without every breaking any part, but it sure is slow.

1981 Dillon 450 is all original with upgrades to current standards for auto powder measure, auto eject, and auto primer feed. Yes it has quirks but it was fun solving them. And when I couldn't, I got immediate expert advice from Dillon.

Bought a used Dillon 550 for $200 and made it the large primer machine. I have never used a Hornaday press but was not impressed by the two I have seen on display.

Lee presses tell you as much about reloading as liver and onions tells you how good prime rib tastes. Lee is cheap and supported by Richard Lee's monster ego. Lee molds don't last, except for the Carbide Taper crimp die, Lee dies are a sad joke. Five years ago, Midway had the Lee reloading book and Lee economy press for $20 -- I know I paid too much.

RCBS and Dillon have top notch customer and technical support services.

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S&WHF 366

Guess I'm the only one here that uses the Green Machine. My first press in 1968 was a RCBS Jr then went to a Rock Chucker in 1975. Finally bought a 2000 Auto Index last summer. Turns out great ammo and is quick to change calibers.

It is a 650 for me. Yes it's primer feed system is not case sensitive, it will feed primers with no case in position. This does happen occasionally, but if you are watching it is not a problem. I don't use the low primer warning as I load 100 cases at a time, in the interest safety and quality. 100 cases and 100 primers go in the machine at a time and when that is done, another 100 go in.
I fine gent I met at the range allowed me to load on his SDB, 550 and 650 presses and I went for the 650. I have never loaded on a LNL and I'm sure you would be well served with either.
I have Dillon dies for 38, 357, 9mm and 45, for the 44 mag I have RCBS dies and I don't like them. I like the three die Dillon easy to take apart with out loosing adjust and I like the separate seat and crimp dies. I do not like the RCBS 2 die set with the seat and crimp in one die.
I do like Green Eggs and Ham