Im getting back into reloading after a few years layoff..( Have Dillon 550 and RCBS and Lee single stage presses) And I wish to reload some 44 Mag using lead slugs. Ive compared pricing...( wow!) I wish to go with a LSWC of 240 wgt and also a LSWC 255 wgt( or there about) ( Keith style)

Comparing BUYING already made slugs as compared to buying all the "material" needed to cast my own...??...why have I saved?..if anything. I have "plenty hobby" as the old indian chief might say...so I dont need a time waster.

Anyone have any input?? Thanks

Well...if you put it like that why are you even asking??? Sounds like you need to get more fun out of life....I cast bullets because:

1. It's fun

2. It's cheaper in the long run if you shoot alot.

3. It can allow you to shoot alot for the money.

4. Something to do on a cold rainy night.

5. Even if you have plenty of toy/fun money it frees up even more. The money I dont spend on bullets is the money I can spend on another S&W.

6. The personal satisfaction of dropping a 375 pound wild russian boar in his tracks with a bullet I made and loaded.

7. The never ending prospect that one night I might just get to drop a 200 plus pound intruder in his tracks with a bullet I made and loaded.

8. Better accuracy.

9. Less barrel leading because they are loaded right and fit the barrel/cylinder.

10. Filling the entire house up with lead flux smoke gives wifey something to pi$$ about besides the toilet seat left up.

11. If you duck hunt or fish you will already have the stuff to make decoy weights and sinkers.

12. Saved the best for last...I have never been able to find bullets that work as good as the ones I cast myself.

I can probably sit here and think of twenty or thirty others but dude, how many reasons do you need???? Spend the cabbage, get the stuff, cast, load, shoot and have fun.

What he said!

The contrarian view would be that if you can find the style of bullet you want, made of the alloy you need and hardened to your satisfaction from a commercial supplier, just buy them. It might be more economical than investing in all the casting equipment and then learning the arcane skills needed to produce good bullets. I played that game for close to 20 years and just buy cast bullets when I need them these days.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

As long as what you can buy will not lead (that it fits your pistol) you don't need to.

On the other hand, I cast for everything I shoot. Consequently, during the last Obama inspired period of time where everything gun was in short supply, I had no worries. I needed to depend on no one for vital supplies.


Cat

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Think for yourself.

You make your own primers and powder too?

Sir, if you don't want to, then don't. [shrug] It's not like we'll think less of you or something.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

I am not getting in the middle of the casting pro or con, but who ever does choose to cast, has to be SUPER careful about how and where he does it. My lead levels are just about back to normal, and I don't ever want them elevated again! Lead fumes are bad news!!!

Sully, It depends on how much you shoot as to whether it's cost effective in the long run. I started casting when I got into silhouette shooting years ago and not only need large quantities of bullets but also wanted bullets that were either not available in bulk or far to costly to shoot. For me,on the best days it can be a joy and on the bad days just a pain. But it has allowed "me" to control that part of my hobby and has without doubt allowed development of loads tailored to my guns. Every time I look at the average to poor quality of the cast bullets at gun shows I know for me I made the right choice.

Keith

I personally don't like bevel-base bullets and it's not that easy to find commercial cast bullets that are square base.

I always enjoyed casting. As someone else said, it's something to do on a rainy night other than watch tv. Any time spent away from the tv is good.

Ah, how well I remember the smell of lead fumes while casting bullets on my mother's kitchen stove...back in the early 60's. :-)

At what temperature were you guys casting to get the lead to vaporize and produce "fumes"?

Jerry

I just can't find a supplier to provide the bullets I want in an appropriate alloy so I cast my own!

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

All the pro-casting input above is good. But if your main consideration is cost and you don't have time to cast, then you may as well buy them in bulk.

There is another consideration. When I started casting bullets back around 1970, it was easy to scrounge lead for very little cost or even free. This is becoming more difficult as time goes on, and will only get worse.

NO, NO, NO! While some of the reasons above are good reasons to cast in normal situations, and I agree with all of them, the main reason to cast is this: "You have what you want, when you want, and all that you want, for the price you want, period!"

Didn't we learn anything in the last year or two? I mean, come on folks. Shortages here and shortages there. You could only get the bullets that someone else didn't want, I mean, CRAZY!

If things get harder and harder to come by, I will continue to cast so I can fulfill the statement I made above.

Every time I cast I get the exact same bullet that I chose to shoot, made of the alloy I want, for next to nothing that I have worked up all of my loads for.

There may come a time when some politician tries to pass a law and in order to get a colleague to sign onto it the amendment that gets added has something to do with purchasing bullets. Fine, I'll still have mine in the shape, alloy, for the price, in the quantity I want.

Seems like I said that already!

p.s. Gll, those Miha moulds are cool! I have the RCBS 45-270-SAA HP 2 cavity brass mould. A thing of beauty! Nice looking bullets.

You guys have me convinced. For awhile Im BUYING!

I have cast about 30,000 to 40,000 bullets over the past 35 years or so. .38, .357, 9mm, .40, .45 handgun as well as .30, .32, 8mm, .338, .358, .38-40, .44-40, and .45 caliber (3 different diameters and bullet styles) rifle.

I've used these for everything from casual plinking to handgun competition to hunting small and big game. I have kept several 19th Century vintage rifles shooting in calibers or bullet styles unavailable any other way, including some nice Winchesters, Springfield Trap Doors, and an original Sharps.

That said, for reloading common handgun calibers I have been buying hard cast bullets for the past 20 years or so. The convenience is more than worth the expense.

I still have molds for every caliber that I use, just in case. I also have several hundred pounds of wheelweights and a couple hundred pounds of new linotype metal. Several thousand gas checks. Two lead furnaces and a RCBS lubricator-sizer.

I don't plan on being denied, or priced out of, my supplies when needed.

Convenience is just part of my situation! I dont WANT all the "clap trap" you described underfoot...I already have enough stuff here Im tripping over..... When I start buying bullets...I'll always buy more than enough in advance to cover my rump for a long time.

Sully,

Glad to see that you arrived at the right answer, for you (and me). There are good reasons for some people to cast, especially GLL, but there are plenty of good reasons not to, also.

There is not a doubt in my mind that you have made the right decision, as have most or all of the other posters here.

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Formerly Model520Fan

After you know who got elected, I decided to go stock up on some ammo....I went to my favorite store and discovered ALL ready made ammo was gone!!!! Not a bullet to be had....That puzzled me so I went to a larger store and to my worry, they were sold out as well.
I then purchased a couple cap and ball revolvers because roundball was still available......barely.
It was then I decided I was going to cast my own!!
Also with all the talk of registering ammo my decision was an easy one.
Thanks Mr. President for getting me into reloading!!!

I understand what you are saying...for sure.
At the present I have about 700 rounds of 45 ACP...more of 38 special wadcutter target loads...1000 factory jacketed 45 cal bullets and about..??..300 or so .357 sized bullets. Once fired casings galore..but only 100 new Starlines for my new 629. Still have a full sleeve of primers for 38/357...but need a sleeve of large primers for the 44 mag. But Im going to a gun show this saturday...and if I cant get what I want there ...then I'll order from online saturday afternoon. Im down to my last 4lb of various powders and think I might pick up a pound of say 2400...?? Oh...probably pick up a box of factory 44 Mag's too.

I have to thank Smith Crazy for getting me into casting. His enthusiastic posts advocating casting your own bullets got me curious. Then he posted some videos on the forum showing how everything worked. Watching them gave me the confidence to take the plunge and order the stuff to get started. So far I've been casting a little over a year and I love it. To be honest I don't know how much money I truly saved in the first year after factoring in equipment purchases. Now that I've gotten all of the equipment and a good number of molds paid off, I should be set to rack up some serious savings this year. It helps that I've been lucky and haven't had to pay for WW's yet. Even if I didn't save any money I'd still cast my own. I enjoy casting and as has been pointed out, it's something to do during the winter months when it's too cold to shoot as much.

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Andy

You sir, make better bullets than I do. Wow.

I sure have to agree with ya there Bob. FINE looking "slugs"

Amen!!! It would almost be an honor to be shot with one of those!!!

My poor wife is scaring the UPS guy. She is the one home to sign for all my online purchases. Today a Pietta 1858 New Army arrived and the UPS guy said "more gun stuff eh?"
Yes she replied and gave him a evil grin.

The main thing (IMO) that has not been mentioned is the source of lead or alloy???

I certainly would give casting a go if I had a source of alloy.
Here in Florida there is no going to the tire stores to get wheel weights. Like batteries and most other things it is a Haz Mat material and must be picked up by a licensed recycle company.

If I need to buy lead or alloy, there is no advantage as far as cost savings to cast my own. For $40 +/- I can have 500, 230gr LRN 45 ACP delivered to my door.

Now if I had a Mt of lead in my back yard I would surely cast some bullets but living here in the sub tropics (literally) it's hot enough without sitting around a pot of molten lead.

There are only 2 or 3 ranges(outdoors) around here that lead can be used.I predict they will be closed in the near future. The 2 indoor ranges you can not even use handloads of any kind.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Rotometals.com

Check out the tab for bullet casting alloy. Last time I looked I could get 75 pounds of 4% to 6% antimony lead for under $130. I'm going to stop screwing around scavenging and eBay slumming. If there are 7000 grains to a pound that should be about thirty bullets. That gives 75 times those thirty to make about 2250. Cutting some of that for waste still should be around at least 2000 bullets for $130. Even when you add for your heat source that's a big 'ol pile 'o bullets waiting to be made.

Sully,
Since money is no object, "you will just buy a boat load", go for it and have fun!

Just one thing though, buy some bullets like this:
(second from right)



OH, YOU can't! No one has them? I do, and all I want, when I want them!

You already answered your question yourself. I'm scratching my head as to why you even asked it!

You will never get the joy of crafting your own ammunition with your own home made bullets. You will never get to have those kinds of bullets that are oogled over that GLL posted unless someone has pity on you and sends some out of the goodness of their heart. (Most casters have big hearts, too, from what I'm told! )


But, hey, it is only a matter of time until we (read this: those that don't cast) have to go through the next bullets shortage and this question will come up again by the same folks that are asking it now.

I'll have bullets.

Not counting for waste. 7000 grs per pound. 500, 230 gr bullets would be 115,000grains= 16 lbs. 16 x $2.50/lb=$40

Not counting sizing and lubing.

They come to my door for that price. I load them and shoot them.
As for shortage just stockpile or "hoard" if you will, bullets, lead what's the difference.

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Still Running Against the Wind

GLL Can you tell me what moulds you are using?Thanks

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Jim McGhee

Your question seems to revolve around cost. The .38 bullets I use would cost about $0.12 each in quantities of 500, while I cast my own for about $0.02 a round. If that isn't a cost savings, what is?

I used to get lead at gas stations for pennies a pound, but now I get some but not enough. EBay lead is about $1.20 a pound, and the $0.02 per round reflects that.

My bullets are better than store bought, so to me the price is of little importance. Loading and casting are not time wasters in my mind - they are both fulfilling hobbies that help me get thru the cold winter months. I don't do TV.

Greetings
And when you are all done .. for good.. you can sell all the casting equipment. The molds will hold value if properly taken care of and you do not beat them to pieces witha hammer.

As an Engineer and Scientist, formerly involved with environmental issues, I rely on documented evidence before I make my own conclusions.

A few years ago I read a test report from an environmental lab that tested the air quality in and around a bullet lead casting home facility. The bottom line is that if you use an electric lead melting pot made for bullets, use reasonable ventilation and wash your hands, there is absolutely no danger.

Sure, 40 years ago I used a pot on top of a gas stove like alot did. But I would guess that the lead temp was way too hot and I don't do that any more.

40 years of casting and I'm not goofy yet. (don't ask my wife though)

Some of my most pleasant memories are casting .45 SWC's for my then-new Ruger Blackhawk, using a single cavity Lee mold. Slow? Yeah, thought it seemed the time passed quickly because I enjoyed doing it. It doesn't take long before you have a nice big pile of shiny new bullets to shoot.

Back then, I was getting Linotype metal for free from a print shop and wheelweights for free from a couple of tire shops. Free bullets is what it amounted to. I could load a box of 50 .45 Colts for about $2 back then (1974). Even if you wanted to buy cast bullets back then, I don't remember there being that many sources. I had almost nothing invested in equipment, either. An old plumber's lead pot, a ladle, and a Lyman 450 sizer.

I'm not sure where the earlier poster got his prices for lead from, but I go down to the local scrap yard.
Last purchase was about a year ago and it was nice clean lead. Not wheelweights. I recall paying right at $75 or so.
I made 1lb ingots out of the lot after I melted it all in a dutch oven on top of my Turkey fryer burner....
I made 98 of those.
Guess ya gotta love the process though. Otherwise....By all means buy em already prepared.

Let's use your premise. YOUR STATE is communist !

No, just kidding, Roy. Don't take it wrong!

Anyway, I bought 450# of wheel weights for $30. At a 95% rate of recovery of usable alloy that gave me 427# for bullet material. (Which is feasible) That seems a bit much so, just for the sake of discussion, let's take it to 85%. 382# for $30.

Let's do the math: 7000 * 382 = 2674000gr OR 11626/230gr bullets OR 16712.5/160gr bullets OR 10696/250gr bullets.

@$40/500 for those 11626 bullets, you would have paid $930, I paid $30. Say you were shooting 44Spl and had a Keith style SWC that weighed in at 250gr, much sought after by the way, you would have paid more because they weigh more, maybe $45/500 or $962 that I would have paid $30 for.

Not to mention all of the free wheel weights I have gotten or free lead for that matter or even the 150# 5 gallon buckets for $20. I mean, it is pretty simple math.

My 45ACP bullets cost me 3% of what yours do. Can I shoot more or can you?

How fast can you pay off equipment if you save 97% on every box of bullets you buy? What is ROI? (Return On Investment)

Seriously, it is just simple math.

(Not to mention that I have what I want when I want in the shape I want and made of the alloy I want! I think I said that already though! )

Don't be silly. I am stocked with lead, powder, primer and brass for the rest of my life.


Cat

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Think for yourself.

I get my lead for free & just have the pleasure of casting my own bullets, not the cost.

There was a time when I had to pay for my lead & still cast my own bullets. There's nothing better than making a bullet with the right alloy/mix & sizing it to a specific pistol or rifle.

I feel like a kid on x-mas day when I'm out testing loads & end up with one that will stack the bullets on top of each other.

It's not work, it's my hobby& a very enjoyable hobby at that.

Enjoy & be safe

Unless my calculator is all screwy...thats close to $60 for 500. I buy 38 lead wadcutters for $29 and change for 500..??/

I did that once before...the reason I have none of that stuff now!

Nope..sorry..that dont work for the kid here.
He paid "X" for his bullets and THATS IT...no more cost involved.

YOU on the other hand...have to buy mold(s); handles for them; something to melt the lead with ( furnace or pot and ladle..plus fuel...either propane or electric or ??) YOU need to also buy lube...and you might have to buy..??.. a sizer / lubricator. So there is more cost in your lost cost slugs than you indicate!!!

Fellow Bullet Casters...

We know the truth. We may have started out on the cheap. We may have plowed right into it with the nicest of equipment. Some of us, myself included, started out with the most minimal equipment to save costs only to find out we enjoy the hobby so much that we wanted better stuff. Those that prefer to buy bullets ready made or we whom cast are not any better or smarter than each other. I am guilty of trying to argue the point of casting to try and encourage someone else to give it a chance. That just isn't going to convince anyone. I still use all Lee equipment as it was the easiest cost into the hobby. I bought a 20 pound bottom pour pot, two cavity mold in .358 SWC tumble lube, push through .358 bullet sizing die that came with lube, and I have made almost a hundred pounds of bullets so far with scrounged lead. I will be buying lead from Rotometals.com that is already in a ready to use alloy and in amounts that get me free shipping for just over a hundred bucks. Cost will be under two dollars for ready to use lead alloy. If anything I'm thinking of buying another mold that is six cavity just for my own convenience at making still more bullets faster. So for still under a hundred bucks worth of set up equipment, I am plenty happy with the bullet casting hobby. I plan to crank out some more this weekend. Enjoy.

You must not make your own bullets. you must buy them from commercial suppliers like me only! ( just kidding) www.pennbullets.com

Actually in all reality I have been asked this question many times in the 30 years in this buisness and My answer is this: Do it because you enjoy the process of making bullets on your own and the independance that it provides.
Do it because there are bullets you need in sizes or calibers or styles that are not available from commercial sources.

Don't do it because you think you are saving money because you aren't.
Any job that pays minimum wage will pay you better for your time than you would in the process of buying and cleaning and preping metal for use for casting plus the casting time and then the lube sizing time added to that. If you value your time at nothing then you will save money but for most folks its a losing situation on the labor/money spent variable.

Of course the real problem is if you are like I was and really enjoy it then you run the risk of the whole thing sprialing out of control and turn the whole thing into a buisness. Less fun, more work.

Its still a great hobby and it can bring a lot of enjoyment if you like this sort of thing.

No, and I refuse to argue, the cost of all that equipment is ROI'd by the savings of 97%.

Listen, your math is all screwy which is the reason that you are being hard to get along with here.

@ $1.20/lb the cost of just the bullet @ 230gr is 4 cents each.

Here is how you do that:
1lb = 7000gr = $1.20
7000gr/230gr = 30 bullets
$1.20/30bullet = .04 or 4 cents each
For a 500 count box that is 500*.04 or $20.

Now look, even at your $29 cost for 38's you can save $9. You have to ask yourself if a mould, that costs $30 for a Lee 2 cavity, is worth casting 1500 bullets for. Once you do, that piece of equipment is paid for, work on paying off another.

My math isn't flawed, friend, yours is.

Just another question though, how do you justify reloading? Don't you compare the price of factory ammo to what you can load it for yourself? Sure you shoot more but really...........

Don't cast, the choice is yours. I'm done arguing with you about it seeing as you are incapable of doing simple math.

The point you couldn't argue is the availability issue. Of course, since you aren't approaching this from pure logic, that couldn't matter anyway.

p.s. I don't cast slugs either. Slugs are for shotguns, mine are bullets for rifled barrels.

With all due respect, we don't count our time as being very valuable anyway. If we did, we would NEVER reload.

Let's say you are an electrician. When you do an electrical project at home do you count your time or just say that you saved money?

What if you are a carpenter?

What if you are an auto mechanic?

Same thing here with casting or reloading. Our time doesn't even become part of the equation and the reason is the same, we are doing it to save CASH OUTLAY. Maybe not money, but surely cash outlay. I have yet to pay myself for hanging a ceiling fan in my own house or installing a receptacle in my own garage or putting a roof on my father in law's house.

We simply get down from the roof, crawl out of the attic, climb up the basement stairs with our chest puffed out, expounding on the money we just saved.

Its a matter of semantics, saved money or cash outlay.

I don't lay out as much money for my cast bullets as those that don't cast.

+1 to every word you just said. But I will resist the urge to quote the title to one of Glenn Beck's books...

I fully understand! (Broke!)

Right there is exactly what I said in my first sentence.

You skewed the whole equation.

Sell me or show me where to buy lead alloy at $35 for 450 lbs and I will be glad to cast my own.

For the majority that isn't going to happen.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Saving money is a minor part of my reasons for reloading.
It's about availability. 2 years ago...Nothing was available.
In times of doubt or emergency, the first thing guys like you do is go buy up all the bullets!!!

Kinda like running to the store to buy houshold candles in the middle of a blackout.

Move brother!

I skewed it to reflect what those folks enjoy that live in a "free" state!

If you want to pay shipping on the lead, I will do my absolute best to find you a supply up here. Can you receive lead in large quantities?

I'll help you out Bro.!

p.s. Of course, I would expect you to live up to your word and start casting then!