Ready to load some mild loads for the .38 spc using Berrys bullets. the bullets are 158 gr hollow points. I am using 231 and want to use 4.6 grains. does this sound good? whats a good over all length???? was gonna go with 1.50.. but looking for some advice..

Where did you get 1.50 and 4.6 grs of 231?

4.3 grs is a max load for a 158 FMJ XTP bullet

The Plated bullets are usually loaded in the middle to low end of FMJ loads or use lead bullet data.

Your OAL of 1.50 is OK as the shape of the Berrys bullet is pretty much a RN and you are below the max of 1.550

I would reduce your powder to 3.8 to 4.0 or so to start which is the start load for the 158 gr XTP.

Just my opinion so use at your own risk.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

It depends on where you get your data from OCD1.

I have many older manuals that show 4.5 231 as maximum for 158 jacketed bullet standard loads, and go up to 5.4 for +P loads.

What gun will you be shooting them out of M2A2?

Most any gun that is rated for +P ammo will be perfectly fine for your listed load with a jacketed bullet, but the plated bullets are best used in mid-range loads as OCD1 pointed out. They are almost pure lead and very soft, so top end loads can cause a sharp rise in pressures with them sometimes, depending on your guns internal dimensions.

I load Berry's plated 158gr RN (not HP) to 1.500 all the time. I've only been loading 38 spl for a few months and that's the only bullet I've used so far.

out of all my manuals the only one with 158 in .38 is the speer #10 231 starting at 4.5 to 5.4! wow!

went on the low end of the only manual that had the 158 in .38.

Yup!
I looked at that one too before posting. Read the little note at the lower left of the data though. Those loads marked with an asterisk are +P, so the 5.4 is at the top of the +P range, and the 4.5 is the top load listed for standard pressures.

Some of my Hornady manuals are about the same as that Speer manual. My hodgdon #25 doesn't even go as high as their current website, so it's best to consult lots of different published sources.

Model 15-3 and a lever action rifle. But i planned to load up lite .38s for the wife and kid's to be shot on .357's as well.

That load is fine in a 15-3 with a jacketed bullet. I have one as well, and it'll handle the 4.6 load with the plated bullet too, as long as the plated bullets don't over obturate, and cause pressure problems (which I tend to doubt in a relatively low pressure round like the .38), especially when you consider that mid-range loads for the .357 are about where +P loads are for the .38, and I have never heard of anyone having trouble with these bullets in their .357's at mid-range levels.

Thx for the help I have no problems backing the load down.. will go to 4.4gr of 231.. I have read several time about staying at the low end of jacketed and the high or a little over the lead amount..whatever... 1.50 oal then???

I understand that you should load plated bullets using cast not jacketed data. The plating will come off and you will lead your barrel. I loaded some Berrys in 9mm and found them to be very short for their weight. I think you are going to need to experiment a bit on your overall. I would also start on the light side with the powder.

This is incorrect, and I want to clear that up so as not to cause any confusion for anyone reading these posts and looking at their manuals. It is in the Hornady #3 that there is a little note to the lower left stating this.

As far as COAL- The books coal's are not absolutes regarding this, but are either set by using the cannelure, or for bullets that don't have one, so that loads that will function in any SAAMI spec chambered gun.

That said, anytime you change anything from what is listed, you have effectively changed the load, so you need to start lower and work up. In this case though, you are wanting to use a COAL that is longer than shown in most all my manuals for the .38 Special, so it won't raise pressures. Just the opposite. It'll reduce them a little, and will mostly offset the fact that you want to use 4.6, instead of say 4.5 grains of 231.

I have several manuals.. Most of them are speer 10-11-12 ect. The older manuals do not show oal's that perhaps because most or all of the bullets have cannelures. I dont know..there is a number provided by berry's that you can call and ask question about loads.. fyi.

Just thought the powder Manufactures web site might be a novel place to start which is why I linked it. It does not cut and paste well.

Also looked in Speer 18, New Hornady and Lymans and gave him the lowest.

He of course is free to use whatever he chooses.

158 GR. CAST LSWC Winchester 231 .358" 1.475" 3.1 782 11,900 CUP 3.7 834 14,600 CUP 158 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .357" 1.455" 3.8 661 12,600 CUP 4.3 779 15,900 CUP

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

M2A2,
Personally, you need to use the powder manufacturer's website or call Berry's.

data.hodgdon.com and then do a search for the caliber you want. I'm sure they don't have data for the exact bullet that you have, few, a few, data sources do.

Good reloading practices dictate that you start low and work up, not the other way around. It also dictates that you compare several data sources not just one that doesn't have much information in about the combination you are trying to work up.

OCD1 has given you some very good advice, go to the powder manufacturer's website and look it up for yourself. The tool is there to be used.

Also, if I may suggest, get a subscription to loaddata.com. It costs $29 a year and is invaluable to the reloader/handloader. At least in my opinion.

As another item to purchase, get the newest Lee manual, Lyman manual and use them. Only ask for advice after you have done the due diligence on your own.

Thankfully, we have a forum that is full of folks that are concerned about one another and I haven't heard of one bad load in the bunch. It ain't that way on all of the forums, friend, so be super careful about data given to you over the web.

A word to the already wise!

Thanks for advice.. thats why I asked.. Only using the info I had... thats what the books says. I will post after my conversation with berry's tommorrow. I do need some more manuals.New ones.

i am bumping this old thread, i need help trying to figure this COAL for 357Mag with this same bullet, 158 RN... 1.59" just doesnt seem long enough, its case edge comes past where the bullet starts to curve.



THe FP is 1.58" and shoots perfect for comparison.

If you load like this with fast powders, you are asking for trouble. Why? Because the OAL is of NO consequence when comparing between different bullet shapes.

Why? Because the part outside the case is not going to give you one iota of trouble, it is the amount of bullet in the case!

Measure one of the RN bullets, measure the FP bullet. What is the OAL of just the bullet? Okay, what is the difference? All of that difference should be outside the case. If it is .030" longer, that the OAL of the assembled round should be that much longer too. If it won't fit in the cylinder, reduce the powder charge and seat a bit deeper. NEVER seat deeper and not reduce the powder charge, NEVER.

I have a simple rule of thumb for light target loads. If I seat .030" deeper, I reduce the charge by .2-.5gr. Just me, no pressure equipment.

The important issue with bullets is not the OAL of the assembled case, it is the amount of bullet that resides in the case, called seating depth. That is the critical thing when switching bullets in any load. More bullet in the case, pressure goes up. In revolver rounds, not too big of a deal, in semi-auto rounds, it can be devastating. Bullet setback is one reason for KB in firearms with unsupported chambers. A round stays at the top of a magazine, chambered several times until the bullet is smack dab on top of the powder. Bad things happen when this goes on.

Be careful, please. Reduce your load and work back up. Measure the bullets and add the difference to the cartridge OAL. If it won't fit in your cylinder, reduce the charge, reduce the OAL and run the rounds over a chronograph.

Hope this helps.

*Welcome to the forum too by the way!

Skip, thanks for the help, that makes some sense.

The FP is 0.647"
The RN is 0.693"

So it is 0.046 longer, lets call it 0.05 longer to make it easy, sure seems longer when looking at them