I finally found a SW M 25 Mt Gun 45 Colt. It needs to wait it's 30 days in the hole (Pawn shop trade in law) So I need to gear up and get brass, bullets, dies.

I only kill paper so need to know what cast bullets to get.
With a range of 180gr to 300gr it's hard to tell.

I do have some 200gr RN with a cannelure that I use in 45 Auto(they feed in the SA XD's)

So is there a "traditional" weight bullet used in these guns?
I was thinking the soft (BHN 12) 250 gr RNFP, Cowboy action #1 bullet listed here:

Missouri Bullet Company

But any good loads/weight you guys have appreciated.

Thanks

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I searched for loads and found that there was a very old standard load of
8.0 grains of Unique behind a 255 gain SWC.

This is with a standard large pistol federal primer in Starline nickle cases.

I did some testing with my 25-13 and found that the 8.0 grains of Unique with the 255 grain SWC had the lowest Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation in my gun.

It runs about 875 feet per second out of my gun.

It works well for me.

For paper punchin' the load above is hard to beat. I would also throw in the Mt. Baldy Bullet Co.'s version of the RCBS 270 SAA. They will weigh more like 280 grains as a rule, but that depends on the particular alloy. The editor of Handloader (Dave Scovill) designed that bullet just for the Colt SAA and its shallow rifling, but it has turned out to be exceptionaly accurate in almost any gun, regardless of the rifling type or depth. Being slightly longer than a standard 250-255 grain bullet (and even a bit longer than the 454424 Lyman) helps keep it ligned up in the throats, and in turn with the bore. It will normally shoot to the point of aim in fixed sighted guns, and since yours will have adjustable sights, you shouldn't have any trouble either, though sometimes the rear sight blade on S&W 25/625 series guns needs to be filed/stoned down some on the top to get it to zero low enough at 25 yards. They have the .126" blade from the factory, but if you have any trouble with getting your gun to hit to POA, you can install a .106" blade. I ordered one for my 4" 25-5 several years ago, but while I was waiting for it to arrive, I stoned the top of my blade a few thousandths and also the bottom of the notch, and was able to zero it without having to switch blades.

Mt. Baldy Bullets

So the 255 gr SWC would be a better choice?

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Not necessarily. What I was talking about above applies to any bullet weight when you start to deviate from the old factory load of a 255 at 725- 800 fps. (which most actually run across the chrono)

If you never plan to use any other bullet weight or velocity, then yes, I'd stick with the 250-255's.

Tell you what I am gonna do, just for you Roy!

PM me your address again and you are going to get THE 45 Colt bullet!
Well, at least it is in it's name RCBS 45-270-SAA. Mine is a Miha copy and has some hollow point options to it.

I will have to check to see if I have any solids. The round HP is almost nonexistent but weights 265gr or so.

Here is what they look like in their pentagonal HP configuration:
(Forgive the photo quality, from my phone!)


8-9gr of Unique is going to be a pussy cat with these bullets. You may not be able to get the POI and POA to match, I couldn't in my M25 -7. You just have to aim lower or "adjust" the rear sight accordingly. (I used a file and took off .030" and deepend the groove again. Used cold bluing to cover.)

Now you got me started! The 45 Colt has turned into one of my favorite calibers to load for. Simple and it can be made very effective for almost anything here in North America!

I forgot, I also have a 240gr LSWC bullet that works super in the 45 Colt. It is designed for the 45AR but works well in it's big brother. It is from an H&G #502 mould.

Take a look at the thumbnail:

Attached Images

45-270-SAA RND H&G #502 .jpg (45.2 KB, 127 views)

Well, never say never But pretty much I would just be putting big holes in paper. I do mess around with different bullet weights and powder with all my other calibers but what you said, "the old factory load of 255" I guess that's what I was asking, as the original if you will standard load for this caliber.
Thanks!

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Skip,

As always, Thanks. I sent you a PM to your request. (Just being my wacko self)

I will let you know when I pick up the gun. Need to get dies first and figure a way to sneak this purchase past the boss or as in the other thread. "SWMBO" I love it!

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

250 grains is pretty typical for this caliber. However, you can use your 200 grain bullets and 7.0 of Unique. I have loaded a number of cast bullets that were meant for the ACP in my 45 Colt.

My 25-13 really prefers a load using a RCBS 45-270-SAA pushed with [published max 18.0gr 2400] and a WLP. It is tackdriving accurate at 50 yards and has enough punch to take care of whatever needs to be done for most situations in the lower 48 (except perhaps really big bears.)

For a great plinking load also in 'standard' load range, I have been using the Speer 230gr LRN with 11.5gr WSF and a WLP or Fed 100 primer, finished to an OAL of 1.60-1.62" with a heavy roll crimp. This load is also superbly accurate in the gun and will not lead. It runs around <950fps in most guns. They work great in my Ruger Vaqueros as well.

A lot of folks like Unique and report success with it. I have never been able to find a decent Unique load to surpass these for accuracy, or that didn't leave leading. Perhaps it is a matter of hardness for the 255gr bevel based cast bullets I'm using, which are very hard, or some other issue, but I've largely sworn off of Unique in the 45 Colt.

CORRECTION: As Gun 4 Fun has correctly pointed out below, the original charge weight I listed for 2400 and the RCBS 45-270-SAA, while having been used and found safe in my particular firearm, is a bit high based on information published by Brian Pearce in Handloader #246 for that particular bullet at the 20Kpsi level. Therefore, I am revising the max charge load data @ the 20kpsi range accordingly. Thanks for pointing that out, G4F!

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

This is exactly the opposite from what I do. Not wrong nor right, just opposite.

I use Unique for ONLY 45 Colt loads!

9.0gr under the 45-270-SAA is my normal plinking load. I have some that are much stouter for the Ruger and Puma rifle. Not going to post them here either!

Hey VA,

Haven't seen you here lately. Glad your back.

I have never had much luck with the BB designed 255's with any powder.

For general purpose loads in my .45 Colts (in my 25's anyways), I like the old Keith load of 18.5 grains of 2400 under the Lyman 454424. Mine weigh in right at 265 cast, sized and lubed. They really shoot well in any of my .45 Colts, regardless of whose name is rolled on the barrel. In my 4" 25-5 they give 1080 fps @15', and a small handful more FPS in my 5" 25-7.

I have burned an enormous amount of Unique in my .45's over the years, (mostly 8-9 grains) under 250-265 grain bullets. It's just hard to beat (for me anyway).

VA, you've got a PM.

I use mostly 250gr LRN and 255gr SWC bullets in the 45 Colt with W231. I also at times use Trail Boss, HS-6 or Universal to change things up.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

AA-

I know you like HS-6, and so do I for several of my guns, including the .45 Colt.

12.5 grains of HS-6 under a 255 cast swc gives me right at 1000 fps from my 4" gun, and it's a bit milder feeling than the 18.5 gr load of 2400 I mentioned above.

I think you're right, for some reason HS-6 doesn't have the same felt recoil as some other powders while delivering the same velocity. I think it's because it generates less pressure than most other powders with a similar burn rate while somehow delivering the same velocities...

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I dunno, but it does seem to be so. I kinda think that maybe it's because the peak pressure may come a bit later (farther down the bore) than others in the same class. Whatever the reason, it works exceptionally well in many rounds. I use it for mid-range loads in my .475 Linebaugh as well.

I was shooting my 4" 629 yesterday with 240 gr bullets and 9.8 grs of Unique. It shot well but certainly did not feel like a "Magnum" round to me. The other loads I had of 18.5 grs of 2400 with the same bullet gave that magnum punch but not brutal.

I am moving back to more revolver shooting as I am getting tired of searching for my brass. I have a homemade brass catcher net which works well but the ones that bounce off the concrete pad end up in the limestone parking lot and are a pain to find.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Just put the Christmas gift into the ole' XL650 today, well, one of them anyway, the 45 Colt caliber conversion. The wife got that and the 44Mag one for me. All I had to do is circle that in the Dillon magazine about a month before Christmas. Works every year!

At any rate, I loaded my "working" load and was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. 9gr of Unique under the 45-270-SAA round pin hollow point version, around 265gr. Firm roll crimp and Wolf standard large pistol primers and about 20 minutes later, I had all of my empty cases full. About 200 done. Not blistering speed but, good nonetheless. Had to do the setup too and that entailed a primer change too.

Now, when it warms up a bit and the snow stops, I will venture out to make a few bangs!

I'd be interested to know how well the 45-270-SAA shoots with the Unique load, smith crazy, and what sort of velocities you are getting. As I mentioned, after having bad luck with it in most applications for 45 Colt, I never got around to trying it with that powder. It may be worth a relook.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

Thanks for the note, G4F! I have revised my OP accordingly. It's a great forum where folks who are serious handloaders can keep watch among themselves!

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

VA,
Your problem may be a size issue. With the bullets I have posted pictures of for the 45Colt, sized to .452" and on the softer side, I haven't experienced any leading no matter what powder I have used. Granted, I haven't used Universal either but......

I have limited data recorded on the light side for the 45Colt. Since my "other 45Colt" is a Ruger, I have been working on those "Ruger Only" and Linebaugh loads!

That being said, I do have some data:
With the round pins the bullet weighs approx. 265gr
9.0gr of Unique gave me 965fps from the Ruger and 1225fps from the Puma Rifle.

The 240gr H&G #502 bullet gives a bit less from the M25 -7 with the same load of Unique, 900fps and my notes say: "Very accurate".

I am very fortunate in that all, even my semi autos are consistent in size and take .452" bullets very, very well. My M625JM is a tack driver with the H&G bullet loaded to over 1100fps. Awhile back, I posted a thread about how I love casting. Featured in that thread, was my Mick. If you do a search for that thread, you will see my cleaning process in pictures. No trick photography either. What you see is what you get or got, rather!

No leading, a few flakes at the forcing cone, period.

The other thing may be the lube. A good quality lube will greatly reduce the possibility of leading.

Try sizing your throats. If they allow a .452" bullet to easily drop through, you may be a candidate for .454"!

Fit is the most important thing in shooting cast bullets well, lube is next and then alloy.

Hope this helps. As soon as the weather breaks, I will get more testing done. Let you know!

Thank, smith crazy. The size issue seems OK since both the Speer swaged bullets and the Mt Baldy 45-270-SAA work great.

I think the main problem was the alloy being used in my bullets. They are from a local caster and are very hard in addition to being bevel based. I may not have been driving them hard enough with Unique. I shoot their 44Mag bullets with great success at around 1100-1150 fps using WSF with no leading and very pleasing accuracy (my 5.5" Vaquero usually can keep them mostly within the 9 ring of a B-8 target at 50 yards even with *me* shooting). Just the 255gr 45 Colt bullets were not working and causing bad leading at standard charge weights. Must not have hit that magic obturation/pressure relation! And since I was shooting them for cowboy action in Blackhawks at the time, I didn't want to exceed the 1000fps range velocity limit. So I went to another powder that fixed the problem.

I have a couple of powders I like using with 45-270-SAA bullets, 2400, Power Pistol, HS6 and 4227 among them. Velocities for such a heavyweight are impressive as is accuracy. If Unique may give me some accuracy or velocity improvement, it may be worth another look!

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

I load two loads for my 625 MG. one is a 200 gr RNFP over 6.5 gr trail boss powder. the other is 250 gr RNFP over 8 gr unique. At 25 feet, they print close enough together that it doesn't matter.

The one thing that seems to left out of these discussions is over all length as most of these bullets have a crimp groove. Do most reloaders crimp in the groove or load to the recommended OAL?

Crimp groove. The bullet is designed to be a suitable OAL when loaded like that.

Minimal amount in case and maximum amount out. The old Elmer Keith type of thing going on there!

Now if we were talking auto rounds, the OAL would be stated in each recipe I post!

Excellent question too!

That's why in my OP, I was thinking the softer (12BHN) bullets as I usually load at target or lower values. The softer lead obturate better and I have less or no leading problems. The harder magnum bullets loaded at wimp velocities result in more cleaning issues.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Wanted to add a picture to answer Mike's question:

Attached Images

45-270-SAA Loaded 2.jpg (56.9 KB, 131 views)

VAdoublegunner,

I would be interested in knowing your 2400 and 4227 load data.

Don

USSR,

For the RCBS-45-270-SAA, which generally weighs around 282gr, I use either (as stated above) 18.0gr of 2400, or 20.0gr of 4227. They are made up in Starline brass using WLP or Fed 100 primers. I prefer WLP. These loads are around the 20Kpsi range (ref: Handloader #246 - Pearce -'From the Hip' column), and are not generally considered suitable for black powder frame Colt SAAs or Colt clones, which are limited to 14Kpsi. Velocity is just over 1100fps in my 7.5" Vaquero with the 2400 load, and around 990 in the same gun with 4227. Velocities are reduced ~ 50fps in my 4" S&W Model 25-13.

Another excellent load for this bullet is 9.5gr of Power Pistol, also in the 20Kpsi range, also in Starline brass. Velocity is just under 1000 fps in a 5.5" Bisley Blackhawk. I have not chrono'd it in other guns. Again not suitable for Colt SAAs or clones with black powder sized frames/cylinders.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

Thanks. I've got a 6" 25-5. I have a .45-270 HP clone mould on the way to me. With the HP pins in, weight is supposed to be about 265gr, same as my RCBS .45-255 mould casts.

Don

i only kill paper with my 1911 and i found fmj 230 grain at walmart for $15 a box winchester white box

__________________
heroes don't die, they reload.

Getting back to the OP and a "standard" load... Since I like to use "original" in my original guns, I have been burning 8.2gr of Unique behind a Remington 250gr LRN factory bullet. This is right out of one of the Speer manuals, and when I shot it right next to a Remington factory round I couldn't feel any difference.
The target shows that even out of a 110 year old Colt SAA with a 4-3/4" bbl, and just resting my elbows across the hood of my truck, it certainly is a great load.

Just imagine what it will do from a Smith M-25 with all that fancy, modern stuff (like real sights!).

Chris

Attached Images

Colt SAA 45.(2)a.jpg (60.8 KB, 93 views)

Well, it seems that Unique is the Powder de jour along with the 250 gr bullet.

Thanks

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

The standard cast bullet load for the .45 Colt has long been either Lyman #454190
or #454424, which is a Keith bullet, over 8.0 gr. Unique powder ignited by a standard
large pistol primer. If you plan on using cast bullets, it is best to measure your cylinder throats, to determine the required bullet diameter.

Sir, for years the standard factory load was a swaged lead 250- or 255-grain pointed roundnose bullet loaded to a nominal 870 fps. That performance can be more or less duplicated with a cast 250 over 8.0 to 8.5 grains of Unique. That's been my "standard" .45 Colt load for some years.

With a cast 200-grain bullet, 8.0 grains of Unique makes a nice plinking load. I used to shoot a lot of these. One really nice thing about 200-grain bullets is that they usually print closer to the sights of Smith revolvers than 250s do.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

__________________
Wishin' don't make it so.

I like those Rem 250gr LRN swaged bullets, even with the gritty black lube they have. They are nominally .455" diameter and are one bullet that shoots really well in my large throated 25-5 (around .456") without a lot of effort to get them to shoot well. Or leading. They are an authentic old school item.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

I want some of the lead HPs sized .454. The .454 (or slightly larger) is kinda important.

The larger diameter might keep the pro-ject-tiles in the same county.

Can we do this?

If so, how?

Thanks,

salty

I usually prefer a light pressure push through, as with a .452" bullet, & .4525" throats. This is the case w/ my 625-6MG / .45 Colt. It shoots 265 grain Keith bullets well, over 7.8 - 8.2 grains of VV N-330, 8.6 - 8.8 grains of VV N-340, or 9.5 grains of VV N-350. LBT Blue lube, & no leading.

Out of curiousity, what are your thoughts on a "snug" cylinder throat / bullet fit? I have a newer 625-8 (.45acp) w/ tighter (.452") throats. No finger pressure push through possible - w/ a .452" bullet. It's quite accurate w/ .452" 200LSWC's & 230LTC (both bevel base), but I do notice a little lead buildup - & am wondering if a traditional flat based, cast revolver bullet wouldn't be a better match... Any thoughts?

__________________
Regards - GCF

The gun used was a Colt 7 1/2 ,SAA, 2nd Gen

Bullet weight = 267
Sized = 454
Cast from ww
Mold=Lyman Ideal
Powder=Unique 6.5
Case= Rem
Primer=CCI300
COL= 1.655
Volecity= 705
Accuracy= 1 x 3/4 inches at 15 yards

__________________
Semper FI

I load 8.3 gr Unique with the 45 Colt 255 gr FRN lead in all my 45 Colts, but another really good load and cleaner burning is 5.9 or 6.0 gr of Red Dot. You really can't tell the differance in point of impact or felt recoil. I load 5.5 Red Dot for Cowboy action. I have one 45 Colt that I've been shooting for over three years - off and on - I've used nothing but Red Dot in it and I've yet to clean the barrel and it looks like new inside the rifling. Of course I clean the outside and cylinder with Rig as the final wiping.

I see more and more mention of Red Dot in load discussions. I had so much RD decades ago to 'work away' that I actually got tired of the stuff. And, I was more into speed demon loads at the time anyway. But it was a really decent metering and clean powder for a lot of midrange applications.

When WSF came out and I found I liked it for shotshell and especially for autopistol cartridge loads because of the way it metered consistently, I developed applications with it for everything else I shot in handguns. But I may have to try some RD again, if nothing else for old time's sake. It is certainly economical.

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

si--------

I've created a monster! It's going viral!

I must get more UNIQUE.

Thanks all.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind