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Old 01-11-2011, 03:12 PM
Mark in GA Mark in GA is offline
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Default Opinions on the best general use pistol powder?

Given the following criteria what would you guys say is the best general use pistol powder for standard/medium loads in the most common rounds(9mm, 38/357, 40 S&W, 44 Mag, and 45 ACP? It is a given that no one powder will do everything in all calibers.

1. Reasonable case fill to reduce the double charge risk.
2. Reasonable economy in many calibers (grs. per round).
3. Usable with jacketed, plated, and cast bullet loads.
4. Functions well through measures for progressive loaders.
5. Burns fairly cleanly.
6. Produces reasonable accuracy.

I have some thoughts, but was curious what others had experienced.

Thanks,
Mark in GA
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:17 PM
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I pondered this same question myself and researched my manuals and what kind of shooting I do. I went high up on the Mountain and consulted with the wise one there also.

I bought 8lbs of HP 38 or W 231 works for everything for me. No it is not the barn burning magnum like H110 but I do not shoot those often.

Bullseye is another good one and I am sure others will have their favorites.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:25 PM
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Unique....Unique...Unique... Throw in a little 2400 and you are good to go.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:26 PM
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Other powder I see with a lot of mentioned uses a Unique and Clays or International Clays. Just getting into reloading myself, so not sure to validity of that.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Mark in GA Mark in GA is offline
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I was kind of thinking HP38/W231 myself. Unique has so many applications and I like its bulk, I just wish it metered better. Universal is similiar, but it seems that most folks can't quite get the accuracy like Unique or 231.

Mark in GA
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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I bet no one says Unique!

Actually, with those cartridges (and adding 44SP, 45Colt, 10mm... and probably a few others) I can't seem to get along with out at least WSF, WW296 and more recently Power Pistol.

I still keep Blue Dot and 2400 around for a few things though. Old habits just die hard.

And yeah, I still have Unique too...it really is a good all purpose powder if for no other reason that soooooo much load data is out there for using it!
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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I use Unique for standard/medium loads with cast bullets in 41,44 and 45 Colt with great results. I load the 41 and 44 in magnum cases and it works well as it is kind of a bulky powder.
2400 is a great powder for 357 as well.

Bullseye is what I use for 45 ACP. I load on a Dillon Square Deal and have had no metering issues at all.

Last edited by jubela#4; 01-11-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in GA View Post
I was kind of thinking HP38/W231 myself. Unique has so many applications and I like its bulk, I just wish it metered better. Universal is similiar, but it seems that most folks can't quite get the accuracy like Unique or 231.

Mark in GA
Unique is fine but I agree that it does not meter as well but I only have the low rent Red equipment

I have been trying out the Win Auto Comp. It meters great but I really do not see much difference between it and HP 38 . Plus it requires a little more per load so will not be as cost effective.
I am finding i use more and more Bullseye lately

But again, if I could only have one pistol powder it would be the HP 38/W 231.
.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:24 PM
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I could do 99% of my loadings with Unique or 231. As it is, I use 231 for 9mm, 38sp and 45acp. I use Unique for 41, 44 and 45 Colt. However, I could go either way if need be.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:35 PM
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I've used Unique for everything from 380 Auto to 44 Magnum. It's one powder that truly does everything reasonably well.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:19 PM
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Red Dot's cheaper cousin Promo. Loads by weight (not volume) as Red Dot in .38, lower velocity .357, 9mm, 45 auto, 45 Colt and 12 gauge. I have other stuff on hand but at $80/8# it is my go to for everyday loads.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
1. Reasonable case fill to reduce the double charge risk.
2. Reasonable economy in many calibers (grs. per round).
You're sort of condricting yourself here. Bullseye would be about as economical as any, but to fill up a case, you'll need to use more powder. I've used a lot of Unique, and am currently using a lot of Bullseye.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:24 PM
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Trailboss meets all your requirements also. I like it, Unique, 231/HP38, Bullseye, Clays, Universal Clays. Although, Clays usually requires a small charge and could easily be double charged. Trailboss is virtually impossible to double charge and is good for lower powered target type loads.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:30 PM
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Unique was my first powder, and I send blessings back on the old guys who recommended it to me 25 years ago or so. My brother is just getting into reloading (wanting a powder for .38/.357 and 9x19): last week I told him Unique would be the stand-by answer, but that Power Pistol might be the better answer (meters better and is cleaner-burning than Unique but certainly is flashier - other than that, they're both wünderpowders) for a beginner. I told him that he'd do fine with either and that I'd never choose to be without either powder - I use them all the time in a variety of handgun calibers.

So . . . that's my answer.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:35 PM
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Unique.

Unique even gives the most powerful and safe handload for the .25 ACP. I would have thought Bulls-Eye would have covered that chore, but nope, its Unique.

And, while not the premium powder for use in .44 Magnum, Unique can place .44 bullets firmly into the Magnum category and do it accurately.

For full power loads in the "ACP" cartridges (.25, .32, .380, .45) and the 9mm, Unique has been tops for me.

Unique is really fine for stoking up cast lead 158 grain bullets into the "+P" category in the .38 Special without a lot of fuss or high pressure signs.

Unique's metering qualities never bothered me for a moment because I love its goodness and see its sterling worth.

The only thing that Unique doesn't do well in my view is operate at minimum charge weights and pressures. It'll kick the bullet out the end of the barrel but is sooty and complains about it by showing high velocity variations over a chronograph.

I enjoy regular use of other powders and love experimenting with powders unfamiliar to me but it is nice to have an old faithful propellant to reach for when one wishes to just kick back and be comfortable and confident in the results.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCD1 View Post
Unique is fine but I agree that it does not meter as well.
A number of people have stated Unique does not meter well. They have me worried. I use Unique in a RCBS powder measure for 38/357/45 colt and some rifle cartridges and have never had a problem. Never have to make an adjustment once set, and I check every 10 throws.

I use a Dillion Square D for 45 acp and I never check after the inital setting. Haven't had anything blow up yet but should I be worried?
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:45 PM
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Unique always metered fine for me.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
Unique.
Unique's metering qualities never bothered me for a moment because I love its goodness and see its sterling worth.
Actually, it meters pretty well through Bryan's pepper shaker. I KNOW he uses it on his Post Toasties! That's how much he likes it!

Been loading for quite a while, used Bullseye from the start. Never got involved in the Unique fad, until lately. I am using it exclusively in my light to medium 45 Colt loads. That is the only place I found a use for it. Just me though.


I have started several folks reloading. I almost always ask the calibers they are going to load. If they are all straight walled pistol cases, HP-38/W231 gets the nod. Even the high pressure 40S&W. I tell them to make sure they use lighter bullets or not hotrod heavier ones if they are shooting through an unsupported chamber.

I have found in life that there is no "one size fits all", reloading is no exception.

For handguns, 3 powders would be my suggestion. Bullseye for those super light target loads, HP-38/W231 or SR4756 for those heavy standard to +P type of loads and 2400, AA#9, H110/W296 for those truly magnum babies. I do use Lil' Gun in the 44Mag, just not in handguns.


If you choose three powders in the burn rates mentioned above, you will be good to go for a long time.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:35 PM
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Given the OP's parameter's, in my opinion it would have to be 231.

As far as what is the best single all around powder for handguns would be there's only one choice when all is said and done- UNIQUE!

I was slow to switch over to any other powder other than H-110/296 early in my loading career, since I wanted to shoot full power loads only, and my first few handguns were .44 mags.

Once I bought my first .45 auto a few years later though, I needed something better suited to that caliber. Back then there were no where near as many wonder powders as there are today, and Unique was always at the top of everyone's recommendations for the .45. I bought a pound to try, and have never looked back. I'd sure like to have back all the Unique I've burned up over the years. I wouldn't need to buy another pound of powder for the rest of my life. It's just that good! I can use it efficiently and effectively in everything from my .38's to my .475 Linebaugh.

bmcgilvray pretty much nailed why with his post IMO.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:40 PM
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I have tried most of the powders mentioned in this thread, having been a handloader for over 35 yrs.. My two powders that I have used for the past 10 yrs. or so are Bullseye and Unique. Unique has been around for more than 100 yrs. and has stood the test of time. It has been used by nearly all the handlaoders and shooters of note over that period of time. I have tried HP-38 and liked it, I found it to be slightly more accurate than its ballistic twin W231 in my guns. For heavy .44 Magnum loads which I seldom shoot anymore, I use 2400 with lead bullets and W296 with jacketed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:41 PM
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I use Unique for .357,44mag,.454,45acp, 45Colt. I use Bullseye for .38 wadcutters and 45ACP
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:33 PM
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I hate to be the first to say Unique, but someone had to step up
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith crazy View Post
Actually, it meters pretty well through Bryan's pepper shaker. I KNOW he uses it on his Post Toasties! That's how much he likes it!

I have found in life that there is no "one size fits all", reloading is no exception.
Oh Skip, Unique's not just for breakfast any more.

While it's good on the Post Toasties and in the scrambled eggs too, Unique goes with most every meal. Provides a little zip for peanut butter and banana sandwiches. Great on sardines with crackers. Adds zest to a garden fresh tossed salad. Try it just once in the cheese sauce poured over steamed broccoli. Grilling fans, try a mixture of garlic salt, black pepper, and Unique, sprinkled liberally over New York strip steaks and cooked medium rare. YUM! (warning: do not sprinkle Unique directly on meat while it is on a hot grill). Desserts are better with Unique. Just try "+P strawberry shortcake" with Unique sprinkled over the whipped cream.

And Skip, you are entirely correct. While Unique comes closest as a "one-size-fits-all" powder in my view, I sure would want to keep Bulls-Eye and H 110 on hand. Would miss 2400 for heavy Magnum cast bullet loads too.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:09 PM
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[Laughing to myself, Sheriff, as my wife silently shakes her head.]

FWIW, when I talk about "metering problems," I'm complaining about sticky powder resulting in overthrows on my RCBS 1500. Overthrows that the machine tells me about - all it results in is a waste of time. I don't find that it overthrows more than a tenth of a grain when measured on a Uniflow. For what it's worth, I don't care about a tenth of a grain on non-max/non-defensive handgun loads, so it's not really an issue using a volumetric measure like the Uniflow. On the 1500, it's really more of a PITA than anything else: when I'm loading, say, the "TX FBI Load," I want each round to be precise - an overtrickle due to sticky powder wastes a few seconds.

It's really not a big deal - as I said, I'd never be without Unique. (When the Dems took Congress in '06, I went out and bought a mess of it so that I wouldn't have to be without it when hoi polloi got to scurrying around in a panic.) It's a wonderful powder.

Of course (as I mentioned), Power Pistol is, as well. It has everything Unique has except the soot, the history . . . and some of the versatility.

Sounds like the ringing endorsement of the crowd is for Unique, though - and I would never argue it's wrong.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:22 PM
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Unique or Universal Clays will meet all the OP's requirements.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:28 PM
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Unique

(hence the name)

/c
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:52 PM
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Yeah but Erich, who wants the flavor of Power Pistol in their Post Toasties?

Actually, if I had any sense I'd try that Power Pistol. It might make straight-walled revolver cartridges "walk and talk."

Besides, it might be especially good on lamb, or fish.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:23 PM
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yep...put me in the unique camp as well....at least for the stated criteria
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:14 AM
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VihtaVuori N340. Unless of course you believe powder technology hasn't improved at all in the last 111 years...

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Old 01-12-2011, 12:39 AM
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I love Unique in .45 ACP especially, but in competion where you MUST meet power factor or go home, I dropped it in favor of HP38. VVN340 is fine but hard to get out here.
A light load that you can't even feel can fail you at chrono.

If you don't have to pass chrono, then Unique is fine for medium loads.
Will not reach max power in magnums.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:02 AM
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I use more Unique and 231 than anything else.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:23 AM
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WW-231 and WW-296 is what I use and have had no issues with either powder.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:23 AM
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I use a lot of Bullseye and Unique. The problem of double charges is really there with the Bullseye but since I am retired/disabled, I have nothing much better to do than reload with a single stage press and I can check all my loads for doubles or noneles (I don't think that is a word but I check for empty cases) before sticking a bullet in the case.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:27 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
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I’m amazed that no ones mentioned any of the AA powders. The AA powders meter extremely well due to their spherical shape rather than a flake powder. They burn clean, are reasonably priced & can be used in a wide verity of loads.

I’m a big fan of unique, herco & the clays line of powder.

But it’s hard to beat AA#5. I’ve never heard of anyone having any problems having this powder not meter well in any of their powder throws. It’ll make major for most loads, uses just enough powder so that a double charge is easily noticed. And it doesn’t seem to be temperature/position sensitive. This double base powder burns slow enough to get some good hp out of it but still lets the reloader use standard primers.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:09 AM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
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Unique, Herco, Red Dot/Promo, Green Dot, AA#2 and a few others have seen use for all but the 40 at my bench.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Mark in GA Mark in GA is offline
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I don't have experience with it, but wonder how Hodgdon Universal would fair as an all around powder? It's burn rate seems close to Unique which has to be a good thing, but I wonder how much bulk it has and how it meters for progressive reloaders?

Mark in GA
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:09 PM
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Unique and 2400 is all I use.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:32 PM
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After I use up my W231, Unique, and Universal I plan to standardize on Bullseye. I do mostly target shooting, so Bullseye meets 99% of my needs. I also have 2400 for the occasional .357.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in GA View Post
I don't have experience with it, but wonder how Hodgdon Universal would fair as an all around powder? It's burn rate seems close to Unique which has to be a good thing, but I wonder how much bulk it has and how it meters for progressive reloaders?

Mark in GA
Unique and Universal Clays are ALMOST, but not quite interchangeable. Universal Clays is probably a little cleaner. Do not, under any circumstances, confuse Clays and Universal Clays. (often refered to as just "Universal") Regular "Clays" is more similar to Bullseye.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:19 PM
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I am only loading for three pistol calibers but find W231 and Titegroup to work very well for me.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Miata Mike Miata Mike is offline
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I have used Bulls Eye for 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45acp so far, but decided to try some "flammable dirt" (Unique) because of how well it was received here. I was surprised how 6.5 grains filled the usable portion of my .40 S&W cases after seating 155 grain Hornady bullets. No double charges with this stuff.

I used Lee dippers for my initial trials. I hope it meters well in my Lee Perfect powder measure.

Now I have to go out and shoot the 10 I made up.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:08 AM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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Back in the 1970s and 1980s, I loaded a lot of .38 Special, .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum ammo with Bullseye for target, Unique for "medium" loads and 2400 for the heavier stuff. All three performed well for me and I don't seem to recall Unique metering poorly or being all that much dirtier than the others. But since then and until recently, I've only helped my son load some .45 ACPs with 200-grain lead RN bullets and Unique powder - yes, some of the last pound I bought "back then." They all go "bang" and print decent 25-yard offhand groups from his 1911.

Lately, I became interested in revolvers again and have acquired several stainless steel S&Ws. Three of them are 629s and my favorite is a 5" Classic DX that I expect to shoot the most. I loaded up 50 rounds using 240-grain Hunter's Supply hard cast SWCs over 6.0 grains of Bullseye and CCI 300 primers in new Remington brass. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot any of it yet but I was after a nice target load and the books call that a 900 fps load (I'm interested to see what my chronograph says). I'm wondering if any of you have tried it or would recommend a different powder.

Thanks for the input!

Ed
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:21 AM
brucev brucev is offline
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Came to this discussion late. Began reloading with the .38 Special. Used Unique from the start... 4.5 gr. w/ 158-160 gr. SWC lead bullet. Worked extremely well for 30 years. I have used other powders. Unique can be used for target right on up to full power loads. Works well for me in .357 S&W Magnum. Other powders suit other people. Unique remains my favorite. JMHO.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by VAdoublegunner View Post
I bet no one says Unique!

Actually, with those cartridges (and adding 44SP, 45Colt, 10mm... and probably a few others) I can't seem to get along with out at least WSF, WW296 and more recently Power Pistol.

I still keep Blue Dot and 2400 around for a few things though. Old habits just die hard.

And yeah, I still have Unique too...it really is a good all purpose powder if for no other reason that soooooo much load data is out there for using it!
These were so close to my thoughts I thought I wrote this untill I did not see Green Dot. I dont even know if they still make it but I know I've still got quite a few lbs. of it. And of corse 231
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:34 PM
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Sebago Son Sebago Son is offline
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Default In descending order...

1.) Unique
2.) Bullseye
3.) 2400

Anything beyond these three is superfulous... well, maybe a little IMR-4227 for top end .44 Magnum loads.....
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:51 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son View Post
1.) Unique
2.) Bullseye
3.) 2400

Anything beyond these three is superfulous... well, maybe a little IMR-4227 for top end .44 Magnum loads.....
You've just listed my entire inventory of handgun powders. Rifle powder is quite another story.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:47 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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Alliant's Green Dot is very much alive and well. It's a popular 12-guage powder for trapshooting.

Ed
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Old 01-13-2011, 03:08 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AveragEd View Post
Lately, I became interested in revolvers again and have acquired several stainless steel S&Ws. Three of them are 629s and my favorite is a 5" Classic DX that I expect to shoot the most. I loaded up 50 rounds using 240-grain Hunter's Supply hard cast SWCs over 6.0 grains of Bullseye and CCI 300 primers in new Remington brass. I haven't had an opportunity to shoot any of it yet but I was after a nice target load and the books call that a 900 fps load (I'm interested to see what my chronograph says). I'm wondering if any of you have tried it or would recommend a different powder.

Thanks for the input!

Ed
Just an FYI-

Your Classic DX should have undersized throats in it, unless a previous owner had them reamed.

S&W intentionally made them that way. In extensive testing using jacketed ammo, they found that throats that measured .428" gave the absolute best accuracy. Why this is so, when conventional wisdom has always said that accuracy is usually best when throats, bore, and bullet match is still a mystery, but the Classic DX's were the most accurate .44's S&W ever made.

Unfortunately, the tight throats also caused pressures to rise and often normal loads would cause brass to stick (sometimes to the point of having to have the brass tapped out with dowel rod). When enough customers complained they opened them back up to .430", which they had settled on for all their other .44 magnums in 1990 at the end of the endurance package upgrades. All S&W .44 mags made before very late 1989 had throats that measure .432"- .433". That dimension had been used right from the very beginning of the .44 magnum in 1956.

Just something to remember when checking your load of Bullseye against known velocities from the past, and something to be aware of when loading to full power. I found I always needed to back down by 2-3 grains to get the brass to extract properly in mine.

Edited to add-
the bores of most all S&W's including the early Classic and the Classic DX's, will normally mike out at .429"- .4295", but measuring them without a three point mike or some other speciallty gauge can be a an effort in futility.

Last edited by Gun 4 Fun; 01-13-2011 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miata Mike View Post
"flammable dirt" (Unique)

I hope it meters well in my Lee Perfect powder measure.
The whole 'Unique not metering well' issue is a puzzle to me. I've never had any problem with Unique not metering well through either of my two powder measures, a Dillon and an RCBS. Goes back to 1974 or so when I first started reloading .45 Colts. Maybe others are more persnickety in their charge weights but I've never found that I could tell any difference between weighed Unique loads and those thrown with a powder measure.

When working up loads, I used to weigh charges, keeping them as close to a given value as possible, working in .1 grain increments. What I discovered was, this is a BFWOT, at least for me. I could tell no difference on the targets.

In a big cartridge, such as the Colt, 1/2 grain increments are plenty good and so are thrown charges.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:32 PM
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As I've explained up-thread, when I mention metering issues with Unique, I'm talking about the clumping that occurs with this "sticky" powder when using my RCBS 1500 automatic trickler/scale machine to weigh precise throws for max, target, or personal defense loads. This happens more with Unique than with other powders. When it comes to volumetric measuring of blasting loads, well - not really a problem.
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