Lead Melters

VAdoublegunner · #1 01-25-2011, 06:02 PM

I haven't done any bullet casting since the mid-70s when I used to cast round balls for my flintlocks or minie balls for the Zouave with a ladle from a cast iron pot over an open fire. I've been satisfied with commercial cast bullets for most of my centerfire needs and even the muzzleloaders, even some of those latter are starting to get pricey in .575 size.

However, I've been thinking lately about getting back into it on a limited basis. I have an original Winchester mold for 25WCF that is still in great shape and thought it would be fun to cast some bullets for that for my 1927 Win '92 in 25-20. And if I'm going to do that, I might like to cast a few more specialty bullets, like the RCBS 45-270-SAA, 45-70 or 44-250K, that I now buy but can see a basis for casting occasionally.

It would be low volume production, no more than single or double cavity moulds and limited to ladle casting.

What do those of you who cast think of the Lee melter pots, the simple ones with a thermostat control, not the bottom pour type? They seem reasonably priced, easy to set up and use and simple enough to be fairly durable. Is that the case?
For volume, is the 4lb pot adequate or the 20lb one better? Remember, this will be small volume probably no more than 100 at a time so is there really no need for a 20lb one, or is there a disadvantage to using it for that volume? The cost differential really isn't significant between the two.

OKFC05 · #2 01-25-2011, 06:07 PM

I still have the old pot melter, but I mostly use a Lee bottom pour thermostat pot, and like it better than using a dipper.
Need to be sure the mold you want to use fits under the pot.

Sully · #3 01-25-2011, 06:43 PM

The 20 pounder keeps more material hot longer. Once you have to dump another bar of lead into the pot...your off the air so to speak till it gets melted back down and the mix comes back up to temp.

I bought a 20 lbs Lee bottom pour a few weeks back but I still bought a brand new RCBS ladle too....

Nothing wrong with ladle pouring...especially on small quantities.

Have at it and get back into the fun

Skip Sackett · #4 01-25-2011, 08:56 PM

VA,
If ladle pour was all I could do, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to cast a single bullet! Dude, I ain't that coordinated!

I have two Lee bottom pour pots that I have used A LOT over the last several years. I cleaned the bigger one out here awhile back and tried a new thing.

Everyone knows that the spout leaks like a sieve on occasion. More often than not, to be honest. So, what I did was this: Drained the whole pot of lead. Used a wire brush in a drill and cleaned that thing real good. It got all of the "dust" out of it. Then, I cleaned it with brake cleaner and let it dry. After that, I used some CRC Industrial Dry Graphite Lube and sprayed the inside of the pot.

It doesn't leak now and the sides stay clean as a whistle. I have to confess though, at first I used it to smelt with too. That puts a lot of extra junk in your pot that you need not have in there.

The turkey fryer with a cast iron pot to make ingots is a better way to go.

*A note about a Zouve rifle in my past: My grandpa died in 1975. I was a Corporal in the Marines at the time and came home on leave. Our family has always been gun nuts. So during the time I was home, someone just naturally wanted to see this Jarhead shoot that 58cal cannon and how he would do. They set a 3lb coffee can out a ways and loaded her up. My uncles tried, so did my dad, they all missed. "OK, Corporal, your turn!" Believe it or not, I let my mouth wind up and I said: "Do you want me to hit it on the top or the bottom?" Thankfully, before they could say anything, I let fly. The can went rolling and I was safe! I remember it wasn't anything like the M14 I was carrying!

Best to you!

Andy Griffith · #5 01-25-2011, 09:09 PM

I've got two vintage Saeco bottom pour furnaces. One is a used one I traded for, and the "newest" one is a brand new one made sometime around 1968- it was still new in the box wrapped with newspapers with that year on them when I got it two years ago. I still have the box.

I like them much better than a friend's Lee, as both have plenty of room for the biggest blocks money can buy! I think they are the same as some of a past generation of Lyman bottom pour pots. These types of furnaces seem to be "bullet proof" (pun intended).

Skip Sackett · #6 01-25-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

I've got two vintage Saeco bottom pour furnaces. One is a used one I traded for, and the "newest" one is a brand new one made sometime around 1968- it was still new in the box wrapped with newspapers with that year on them when I got it two years ago. I still have the box.

I like them much better than a friend's Lee, as both have plenty of room for the biggest blocks money can buy! I think they are the same as some of a past generation of Lyman bottom pour pots. These types of furnaces seem to be "bullet proof" (pun intended).

You must be on a roll! You are always getting old "new" things for nearly nothing! I'm gonna get jealous pretty soon. All I ever get is free brass! Oh and lead.

cp1969 · #7 01-25-2011, 10:41 PM

I like an old cast iron plumber's lead pot on a gas stove. I've never had any trouble using the ladle. My ladle is bottom pour and I just turn the mold horizontal, mate it with the ladle, then turn them both 90 degrees.

jrm53 · #8 01-25-2011, 11:25 PM

I had a big Lee bottom pour pot, it worked great but I found an old Lyman bottom pour and bought it and sold the Lee, Lee prouducts work very well you wont go wrong with one. Jeff

GLL · #9 01-26-2011, 12:14 AM

VA:

I use four of these 20 pound WAAGE K-4757 ladle furnaces for ALL of my casting. This includes large production work with 6-cavity moulds! Thermostat controls work beautifully ! They are much more expensive than the LEE versions though !

Jerry

Gun 4 Fun · #10 01-26-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLL

VA:

I use four of these 20 pound WAAGE K-4757 ladle furnaces for ALL of my casting. This includes large production work with 6-cavity moulds! Thermostat controls work beautifully ! They are much more expensive than the LEE versions though !

Jerry

Jerry,
the pics of your pots, molds, and bullets are better than most guys do with their top end collectable guns out on the main forum!
What does a furnace like that one run if I may ask?

Cyrano · #11 01-26-2011, 12:43 AM

I started out with a SAECO pot about 1967 and used it until it went unfixable. Now I have an RCBS. I've never experienced leakage with the bottom pour types. I used a friend's Lee once, for ladle casting, and found it somewhat slower than bottom-pour. Bullet casting is not my favorite part of reloading, and even if I only make a few bullets, the speed of the bottom pour is a bonus.

Andy Griffith · #12 01-26-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smith crazy

You must be on a roll! You are always getting old "new" things for nearly nothing! I'm gonna get jealous pretty soon. All I ever get is free brass! Oh and lead.

Hey, I just try to be in the right place at the right time.

I can't hold a light to Dick Burg's luck though!
I think it has something to do with all the retired folks moving in here and disposing of their shoot'n stuff.

VAdoublegunner · #13 01-26-2011, 02:28 PM

Gun 4 Fun, I couldn't find the WAAGE pot GLL mentioned on their direct website, but did find this one at Buffalo Arms: Bullet Casting Supplies - Lead Casting Electrical Furnace 115 Volt Ladle Pour 850 Degree F

Looks to be a really nice industrial grade device, and that is reflected in its cost.

Although I've considered a bottom pour setup, and folks have suggested some they like that can be had reasonably (eventhough those RCBS Pro Melt bottom pours look really tempting; I've always favored their stuff), this is more of a 'testing the waters' again for me. So I'm thinking of going simple at this point with a reliable, simple and inexpensive setup with a non-pour melter, an RCBS dip ladle, the old Winchester mold and one or two others to start. One will most certainly have to be an RCBS45-270-SAA, one of my favorite handgun bullets ever, and a 44 cal for 44 Special. If it goes the pathway of my interest in handloading, now almost as big a hobby as shooting and stuff to shoot it in, I can always upgrade. Afterall, I still have and use often my old RCBS RS-2 press!

Gun 4 Fun · #14 01-26-2011, 03:10 PM

VA,
thanks for the link. That is costly, but all things of quality usually are.
I have looked at the RCBS stuff myself, since I like most anything of theirs anyway.

Maybe when you get that .25/20 mold going, I can talk you into selling me some slugs for my old Savage 23 Sporter. I have never found out when it was made, but know it is from back around the same time as your Winnie 92. Mine has an excellent bore, and it is a real shooter.

Marksman · #15 01-26-2011, 03:19 PM

I've had a LEE bottom pour since 1975, it has given good service. The leaking spout was due to crud from melting wheel weights and other scrap lead. Once I started casting from clean ingots the leak went away. While bullet casting was neat, I now buy my bullets from sources close to home negotiating lowest pricing by ordering 100K at a time.

VAdoublegunner · #16 01-26-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun

VA,
thanks for the link. That is costly, but all things of quality usually are.
I have looked at the RCBS stuff myself, since I like most anything of theirs anyway.

Maybe when you get that .25/20 mold going, I can talk you into selling me some slugs for my old Savage 23 Sporter. I have never found out when it was made, but know it is from back around the same time as your Winnie 92. Mine has an excellent bore, and it is a real shooter.

You got it Gun 4 Fun, I'll be glad to send you some. I'll have to take some pics of it to post. It really is in great shape. I also have an old Win loading tool for the 25-20 that has an integral mold. It's not in quite as generally clean condition, but is sharp and looks like it would cast decent bullets. There is something appealing about casting bullets from a mold contemporary to the gun, or at least that was specifically designed by the manufacturer with that rifle in mind and that's what piqued my interest to give it a try.

Gun 4 Fun · #17 01-26-2011, 04:44 PM

Cool!

I'll look forwards to seeing your post with it. What weight and style bullet do your molds drop if you know right off? So far, this old Savage feeds everything pretty well from the magazine.

leas327 · #18 01-26-2011, 05:55 PM

If you aren't worried about production I would get a pot that has an opening large enough to get the ladle in and out easily. And I would also get one that holds 20 pounds of lead. If you ever decide to go to bottom pour you can make that your feeder pot for the bottom pour. That is the biggest problem I have with my lee. I get on a roll and practically run the pot dry then end up shocking the pot when I refill it with the sprues or ignots.

I recently accquired a new to me RCBS pro-melt. It is a nice pot and the thermostat control on it is actually a thermostat control. Lee's is a rheostat and if you keep a lead thermometer in the pot you you can see the fluctuations in temp as the pot goes from full to empty. On the RCBS when you set it to 750 degrees it stays there until you add more lead. That being said I don't think it is worth that much more money if you are going to buy new. You could buy a bottom pour and a feeder pot from lee for less than half of the price of an RCBS. If you use a feeder setup, the lee will keep a consitent temp if you remember to transfer lead from the feeder to the casting pot. Thats what I was going to do until I ran into a deal that included the RCBS. Now I just run two pots at the same time so I always have on full of hot lead.

That's cool that you are using an original mold/loading tool. When I bought some casting stuff awhile back there was a couple of original Winchester molds in there. One was for the 25-20 and another for 45-70. I thought it would be neat to get a Winchester to have to load and shoot out of an original mold like you plan to do. Then I saw how much the guns go for and quickly aborted that plan. Good luck, have fun.

BruceM · #19 01-26-2011, 07:02 PM

Many moons back, I saved and bought an RCBS Pro Melt after fighting the drips and inability to fill large caliber molds fast enough with a LEE furnace. To give you an idea how long ago, it cost $100 SHIPPED to my address. Anyway, it was the best move I ever made. The furnace drips little if at all and the rate of pour is adjustable. Also, the bowl is stainless steel which means emptying & cleaning needs to be done less often and rust is just about a non issue. One final nice feature is an adjustable mold guide/rest.

The Lee furnace is long gone and it doesn't bother me one iota!

Bruce

Sully · #20 01-26-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Many moons back, I saved and bought an RCBS Pro Melt after fighting the drips and inability to fill large caliber molds fast enough with a LEE furnace. To give you an idea how long ago, it cost $100 SHIPPED to my address. Anyway, it was the best move I ever made. The furnace drips little if at all and the rate of pour is adjustable. Also, the bowl is stainless steel which means emptying & cleaning needs to be done less often and rust is just about a non issue. One final nice feature is an adjustable mold guide/rest.

The Lee furnace is long gone and it doesn't bother me one iota!

Bruce

Thats RCBS melter id a dandy for sure...but at 7X the cost of the most $$ Lee pot....I can put up with any drips I get from the Lee. Other than my Dillon 550B...Im all RCBS here basically...but I cant go that $350 for the limited casting I'll be doing.

Nick B · #21 01-26-2011, 09:28 PM

I've used them all at one time or another to cast bullets for my Sharp's and by far the Waage is the best . Stay away from Lyman, pure junk and they won't warantie them .

HEAD0001 · #22 01-26-2011, 10:51 PM

The only Lee reloading product I like are the Lee melting pots. Personally I do not like the bottom pour pots. I prefer to ladle pour my bullets. But that is just a matter of opinion. No way is right or wrong. And the bottom pour is proobably faster, I just like the ladle.

I also like the small Lyman 10# pots as well. I have a couple of the Lee pots and a couple of the Lyman pots. Both work very well. I just like the more compact Lyman, and only because of the smaller size.

IMO the most important part of casting is the sizer, not the pot. I would stay with a pot and the stove, and buy a sizer first for better bullets. But again that is just my opinion.

To me casting is a hobby that I really enjoy. I like to make my own bullets, and shoot game with the bullets I made. I just enjoy that. Tom.

GLL · #23 01-26-2011, 11:24 PM

Order the WAAGE K-4757 by that number directly from the factory and save about $50 ! It is not a cataloged item. WAAGE makes very large industrial furnaces but do make this little one specifically for bullet casters. Great people. Just tell the very helpful lady what you want and they make it up for you. Usually takes a couple weeks.

http://www.waage.com/index.html

Jerry

Forrest r · #24 01-27-2011, 07:51 AM

I used to use a cast iron skillet & a ladle for bullet casting until the late 80's. I bought the small lee (#10?) furnace & have never looked back.

For small runs like what you're talking about, the lee is perfect your needs. For high volume casting the small lee pot has a hard time keeping up. It's ideal for 1 & 2 cavity molds & starts to struggle keeping up with 4 cavity molds. Especially the molds with bigger bullets.

I found for heavy production with the lee I need to use the old cast iron skillet again. I use a propane burner & heat/clean the scrap lead with it. I leave it molten in the skillet & just transfer it to the melting pot & the ingot molds as needed. I use nothing but 6 cavity molds anymore & can cast 100# of bullets & have a pile of ingots this way in 4 hours. After that I quit from a stiff back, bored, old age in general, ECT.

The lee pot has been an excellent investment for me, easily transforming 1000's of pounds of lead into bullets over the years.

Maximumbob54 · #25 01-27-2011, 08:14 AM

I bought the Lee 20# bottom pour and didn't like it at all. Then I went to the 10# bottom pour and I love it. The handle has a weight on the end of it to help stop the flow. It stinks that it only holds ten pounds. But even with the few minutes of downtime to reheat I can cast a bucket of bullets in no time.

BruceM · #26 01-27-2011, 10:23 PM

"but at 7X the cost of the most $$ Lee pot....I can put up with any drips I get from the Lee."

The determining factor wasn't the dripping but the Pro-Melt's adjustable flow rate. I had issues trying to get heavy .45 & .45 Keith SWC's to fill out fully with the Lee. Usually it was the top driving band. The bases, lower & middle driving bands were typically OK. To me, if the cast bullets I made aren't pretty good, they're culled and remelted. Frosted bullets and bullets not completely filled out don't get it done. When the time comes that no matter what you try, you have more rejects than shooters, it's time to do something different. There is also the "Maalox Factor" to take into account!

Bruce

Skip Sackett · #27 01-27-2011, 11:50 PM

Malox? What is that for?

Bruce, have you ever tried to "pressure" cast the bigger boolits? Take the sprue plate and put the nozzle right tight to it and THEN open the valve.

I have had some trouble with bigger boolits like you said and this has helped a lot. Only difference with me is that frosted boolits are OK. Not filled out ones aren't.

The paper won't care!

leas327 · #28 01-28-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

"The determining factor wasn't the dripping but the Pro-Melt's adjustable flow rate.

There is also the "Malox Factor" to take into account!

Bruce

I think we might be talking about different lee pots. I have a pro 4 20 and it has and adjustable flow. It is a screw that limits the travel of the needle pretty much like the RCBS I have. I only use clean ignots in both my pots and occasionally they both will drip. Nothing consistent from either, usually I will just hit the lever a couple times fast and that cures it. The lee can actually be set to flow faster than the RCBS.

What is the "Malox Factor"?

Maximumbob54 · #29 01-28-2011, 08:29 AM

I cast 255 grain .45 Colt bullets just fine with my Lee. You may need to keep your mold more hot. If it is cooling that fast as you pour hot lead into it then it doesn't sound like it was hot enough. I have read of guys using a hot plate to keep the mold up. I set mine on top of the melter sprue plate down and that helps. That and I think the aluminum casts better. It doesn't seem to need nearly as much heat. And while frosty bullets may not look pretty and shiny they still work just fine. They might even hold tumble lube better.

BruceM · #30 01-28-2011, 09:42 AM

Yep, I'm familiar with the Pressure Casting technique. Been there and done that. Bullets with frosted driving bands are invariably undersized and out of round unless the as-cast diameter is way over the required as sized diameter in my experience. Then running them thru the correct sizing die get rid of the problem-not the optimim situation. This is echoed in many cast bullets manuals such as the older NRA's. If the nose if frosted-OK but not the driving bands.

Back in the day, the Lee furnaces were not adjustable for pour rate and the remedy "du jour" was to enlarge the spout with an electric drill & appropriate drill bit. That custom feature might or might not exacerbate the "drips". At the time, also, the largest Lee furnace was a 10 lb (I believe) as compared to the ProMelts 10 kilo (22 lb.) capacity and many folks would run two Lees' at the same time to cut down the lead time on reloads.

That should read "Maalox".

Anyway,

Bruce

Beans · #31 01-28-2011, 07:03 PM

I started casting bullets in 1970 using Lee molds and a Old cast iron pot set on an electric hot plate.

Now days I use a Magma caster for volume bullets and a Lyman bottom pour 20 #er for small volume.

I purchased the Magma caster in 1984 It was much cheaper then.

I haven't used a Lee mold in over 30 years.