webley green
Member
The Lee Perfect Powder Measure is what I use; in fact I have two of them for my reloading. Unique is my only pistol powder. I load .38, .357, .45 and .45 Colt.
.38 spcl/158gr SWC/Unique--What's the real maximum standard load?
- Thread starter Ralph G. Briscoe
- Start date
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
For some unexplained reason, I feel the urge to go cast some bullets.
"With a sinister grin on his face, Skip turns to his faithful assistant, Egor, and exclaims: It's working Egor, it's working!"
I think the reason that you aren't/haven't experience the types of problems others have is equipment. I had some problems with my Lyman #55 as mentioned above. I solved them. Loading on the Dillon Square Deal or the XL650 and my Unique loads are spot on. +/- .1. Plenty good enough for handgun ammo.
Another reason may be charge weights. Undoubtedly you aren't trying to see how low you can go with Unique. Some do and find it to be troublesome. Use a different powder is my suggestion to them.
Paul5388 did a neat test with accuracy and charge weights. Even some of the ball powders did pretty poorly with weights under 5gr. Maybe he will chime in here soon.
BillyWayne
Member
What is this "Lee dipper method" you speak of? I own Lee dippers and thought I was using them correctly. Has someone found a more "perfect" way?
The only more perfect way is to make your own out of 9mm or 40 SW brass.
The Lee are set amounts. Say it holds 5 grains of xyz powder but you want 4.5 grains? You can file the plastic down to exactly hold 4.5 or just make one out of a 9mm brass and file it down , glue or solder a little handle on it.
That concept ONLY works for 1 drop weight.....of 1 powder. It doesnt work for any more or any less of "XYZ" powder....doesnt work for even 4.5 gr of "ABC" powder and cant begin to measure various ( not 4.5 gr) drop weights of other powders. I have enough "junk" cluttering up my bench without a small herd of homemade ( or factory made) powder dippers
I made up a chart listing what charges my modified Lee dippers throw for each of the different powders that I commonly use. I have it thumbtacked to the wall behind my press.
If I feel like using the dippers, I just refer to my chart, double check the charge on my scale, and start scooping.
If I feel like using the dippers, I just refer to my chart, double check the charge on my scale, and start scooping.
Skeeter Skelton suggested using 5.0 grs. of Unique under a 158-160 gr. hard-cast SWC. He suggested this only be used in modern revolvers of good solid construction. I do not know if it would give problems in a aluminum framed revolver. I have used it in all of my .38/.357 revolvers for at least 25 years without any problems whatsoever. It is my standard load for the .38 Special. HTH.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
OCD1's suggestion is a good one for those that are super OCD! 
If you couple it with Paul5388's scale method, you can use the dippers for "NOP" or "TUV" powder if you want. At that point, using a scale too, a big dipper gets you close and then you "trickle" in from the smaller dipper.
Now, I'm not that OCD when it comes to handgun ammo. A .5gr difference isn't going to make much difference (as long as it isn't an overcharge) in the way most folks shoot a handgun anyway!. That's a generalization, so, just cool it.
Here is Paul doing his thing:
And a link to the last thread where he posted it:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/168342-tips-tricks.html
Good advice for those OCD folks!
If you couple it with Paul5388's scale method, you can use the dippers for "NOP" or "TUV" powder if you want. At that point, using a scale too, a big dipper gets you close and then you "trickle" in from the smaller dipper.
Now, I'm not that OCD when it comes to handgun ammo. A .5gr difference isn't going to make much difference (as long as it isn't an overcharge) in the way most folks shoot a handgun anyway!. That's a generalization, so, just cool it.
Here is Paul doing his thing:
And a link to the last thread where he posted it:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/168342-tips-tricks.html
Good advice for those OCD folks!
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ChuckS1
US Veteran
Late to the party, but when I meter Unique in my Uniflow I use the baffle and always keep the hopper 3/4 full. Works pretty good.
Well the reply was not for you it was for Billy Wayne. You are correct, once adjusted it is for one weight and one powder but no different than the original dippers.
And you know what? You don't have to use it.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Easy big fella, easy there!
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Ralph G. Briscoe
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FKimble--http://www.blackriverbullet.com/page0002.html
Smitty--I somehow get the feeling that you think it would be a good idea for me to play with molten metal while inhaling noxious fumes)
I must admit that I was perusing the Lyman molds for that Keith bullet in the Midway catalogue this afternoon, so I'll probably end up back at it before the year's out....probably soon as it's warm enough to work outdoors. I haven't cast a bullet since 1978 when I made a crapload of Lyman 38 141gr wadcutters....just shot the last of them this year.
Smitty--I somehow get the feeling that you think it would be a good idea for me to play with molten metal while inhaling noxious fumes
)I must admit that I was perusing the Lyman molds for that Keith bullet in the Midway catalogue this afternoon, so I'll probably end up back at it before the year's out....probably soon as it's warm enough to work outdoors. I haven't cast a bullet since 1978 when I made a crapload of Lyman 38 141gr wadcutters....just shot the last of them this year.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Smitty--I somehow get the feeling that you think it would be a good idea for me to play with molten metal while inhaling noxious fumes
Go for it!
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Ralph G. Briscoe
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P.S.--Unique measuring difficulties
I just threw 10 4.7 grain charges of Unique with my ancient Ohaus measure and weighed them on my ancient RCBS scale....no discernable differences. I was thinking of modernizing my equipment....maybe not.
I just threw 10 4.7 grain charges of Unique with my ancient Ohaus measure and weighed them on my ancient RCBS scale....no discernable differences. I was thinking of modernizing my equipment....maybe not.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
I'm impressed! First the realization that you NEED TO CAST and then figuring out that the newest fangledist thing isn't needed at all!
You are one smart cookie, Ralph!
Glad you came by!
Been using Unique since about 1962 in .38/.357, 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 Spl., and .45 Colt; about 99% of my pistol shooting is with it. Charging has been with the Lyman 55. I think the B&M was a bit more consistent but hard to tell. Of late I use the RCBS Little Dandy with the rotors drilled out as needed, and like that.
I use the 5.0 charge with the Lyman 358477 150 grain bullet for everything, including an old Victory Model now and then and an alloy 442.No problems at all.
I use the 5.0 charge with the Lyman 358477 150 grain bullet for everything, including an old Victory Model now and then and an alloy 442.No problems at all.
Ralph, thanks for the link. I was aware of that supplier. My last contact with him was he was currently not making bullets due to a health issue. I recently saw something indicating he may be back in business. But I see nothing to indicate his bullets are sized but not lubed. Lube is usually applied during the sizing process. His site does mention the "size" but the omission of lube info probably means he is just using a standard lube. Rim Rock also makes a Keith style bullet. But their lube groove, while square cut, is very shallow. The one's I received weighted approx 165 grains, a little lighter than advertised.
I just loaded up some hard cast 160 gr LSWC + 4.7 gr Unique using my Chargemaster 1500. A very handy gizmo.
The intended launch vehicle is my 642. 4.7 gr Unique is about as hot as I can stand - any higher and the cylinder release chews up my thumb.
The intended launch vehicle is my 642. 4.7 gr Unique is about as hot as I can stand - any higher and the cylinder release chews up my thumb.
I was giving serious consideration tonight to moth balling my DU-O-Measure. I set it up to throw 6.0 gr of Unique, once it did and verified with the Ohaus 5-0-5 beam scale, I proceeded to load about eighth cases and decided to stop and just check a few.
I found the cases varied as much as .5-.8 gr. The first couple was dead on. The next few were .3-.5 under at 5.5-5.7 gr from my original setting of 6.0. Some were even higher at 6.2 gr.
Any ideas as to what may be going on with it? I can't trust it to throw charges I initially set anymore. I had to end up using the trickler half the time as most were below my setting with a few even higher. Time for a new Lyman 55?
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Ralph G. Briscoe
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Smitty, Thanks my friend....great site. I'll let you know how it goes.
John, I know what you mean. That 4.7/158 load smarts a little in my LCR too. I like to be able to practice a lot with my carry load....it's a fine line between enough power and too much recoil. Like they say though, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45. I have been using 6 grains of HS-6 with the 158 SWC--kicks like hell and is dirty. Been looking for something else. 4.7 gr Unique is definitely cleaner and a bit less punishing.
John, I know what you mean. That 4.7/158 load smarts a little in my LCR too. I like to be able to practice a lot with my carry load....it's a fine line between enough power and too much recoil. Like they say though, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45. I have been using 6 grains of HS-6 with the 158 SWC--kicks like hell and is dirty. Been looking for something else. 4.7 gr Unique is definitely cleaner and a bit less punishing.
To hear some folks tell it there is no dirtier powder than Unique. I think they just don't load it to the clean pressure.
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Great thread! But we gotta have more pics. I don't have any handguns as old as what is mentioned (and pictured - great one by the way) but these are mine! The 10-7 is lots of fun and feels good. The 642 is much newer, made during this decade (wow that makes me feel old!) and is in my pocket now! The pocket knife is a modern German made replica type of my great grandpa's knife. Don't want to lose his knife and it sits safe in my sock drawer. The .38 Special is a fun round, especially with cast boolits. Where are my molds?
The .38 Special is a fun round, especially with cast boolits. Where are my molds?
nitesite
Member
Over the past two years I've been learning more and more about using the Lee dippers. So far it's been very positive! During a blizzard at work I took some primed and belled 9mm cases with me, some Unique and a .5-cc Lee dipper. I clamped a $20 Lee Reloader single stage to a desk and went to town charging and loading my own 9mm cast 124-gr cast LRN TL bullets made from straight WWs.
Note: I had already verified the charge of Unique this dipper would throw using two independent scales and 20+ "dips" to get an average.
Later, over a chrono I got some rather decent numbers for using a uber-cheap press and dippers:
LO 956
HI 993
AV 974
ES 37
SD 16
I'm perfectly OK with that, since the load shot great and was accurate enough out to 50-feet from a very compact 9mm BUG.
That night I also took some .223 Rem primed brass and a seating die and BL-(C)2 with a 1.6-cc dipper for some 55-gr FMJs. This ammo shot even better than the 9mm handgun stuff!
My point is that Lee dippers are better at measuring than many skeptics would have you believe. Even with Unique and not a ball powder.
Note: I had already verified the charge of Unique this dipper would throw using two independent scales and 20+ "dips" to get an average.
Later, over a chrono I got some rather decent numbers for using a uber-cheap press and dippers:
LO 956
HI 993
AV 974
ES 37
SD 16
I'm perfectly OK with that, since the load shot great and was accurate enough out to 50-feet from a very compact 9mm BUG.
That night I also took some .223 Rem primed brass and a seating die and BL-(C)2 with a 1.6-cc dipper for some 55-gr FMJs. This ammo shot even better than the 9mm handgun stuff!
My point is that Lee dippers are better at measuring than many skeptics would have you believe. Even with Unique and not a ball powder.
nitesite
Member
Oh, almost forgot...
My "go-to" .38-Special load for years has been 5.0 grains of Unique over either a 158-gr cast LSWC or 5.0 grains of Unique over a 148-gr BBDEWC. Both roll crimped in the first crimping groove. Maybe a bit light for the bigger steel guns but I don't have a problem shooting some of them from an early 442.
My "go-to" .38-Special load for years has been 5.0 grains of Unique over either a 158-gr cast LSWC or 5.0 grains of Unique over a 148-gr BBDEWC. Both roll crimped in the first crimping groove. Maybe a bit light for the bigger steel guns but I don't have a problem shooting some of them from an early 442.
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Ralph G. Briscoe
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They should try making light loads with HS-6 as I did awhile back....like burning coal in your gun. It cleans up with hotter loads. 6gr/158 LSWC in .38 isn't too bad, but 4.7 gr. Unique is a whole lot cleaner.
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Ralph G. Briscoe
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Great thread! But we gotta have more pics. I don't have any handguns as old as what is mentioned (and pictured - great one by the way) but these are mine! The 10-7 is lots of fun and feels good. The 642 is much newer, made during this decade (wow that makes me feel old!) and is in my pocket now! The pocket knife is a modern German made replica type of my great grandpa's knife. Don't want to lose his knife and it sits safe in my sock drawer.
I have a 2" Model 10-3 and it's a joy to shoot....enough weight that hot loads don't take your hand off. Nice cool factor too--it's what Broderick Crawford carried in the old Highway Patrol series.
Erich
Member
Sorry, Nitesite, but somebody has to say it:
How do you keep the powder in the case over the bullet?
How do you keep the powder in the case over the bullet?
Jim Watson
Member
Now, now, Erich, be nice.
I mean it's not like he called a magazine a clip.
I mean it's not like he called a magazine a clip.
olskool
Member
one thing to remember is when you are using a measure, you are weighing by volume more than weight itself. some benchrest shooters claim volume weighing is more and accurate and consistent than powder that has been weighed with every charge on a scale.
