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02-05-2011, 06:51 PM
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.41 magnum / Unique / 255 cast bullet loads?
Hello everyone. I bought two hundred of the Cast Performance 255 WFNGC bullets the other day.
I'm *thinking* I'd like to try these with Unique. This is for my carry gun, a Model 58. H110 is out of the question. The fireball is too much. It's Hollywood style.
What have some of you had success with with this combo. I realize it is an uncommon one.
Thanks!
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02-05-2011, 07:25 PM
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You need to be aware of the fact that S&W's have a rifling twist rate that is too slow (1-18 3/4" IIRC) to properly stabilize slugs heavier than about 220 grains. Sometimes a S&W will do ok with bullets in the 250-255 grain weight range depending on the design, but almost always, they need to be driven as fast as can safely be done in the gun they will be fired from to achieve this.
Worst that can happen is try them to see what you get for accuracy. Many guys (and this is no reflection on you, since I have no idea what your abilities are) simply can't shoot well enough with a handgun to know if they are getting really good accuracy or not. Some are happy if they can keep them all on a paper plate at 25 yards. If that is all you need accuracy wise, then you may get them to do that for you, but I am betting that you will still have to drive them pretty fast to do it.
I'd be for you happy if you don't, but........
I don't even bother with them from my 6" 57 because of this issue now.
Edited to add- CPBC bullets are a weight forward design, and as a rule, they need to be driven fast in most calibers to achieve peak performance.
Last edited by Gun 4 Fun; 02-05-2011 at 07:28 PM.
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02-05-2011, 08:26 PM
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I didn't know the rifling in this weapon might be a little slow for that bullet. That's good to know.
I have 6 rounds loaded with 8.5 grs. of Unique and a CCI300 primer. I'll try them and see what they do.
I'm not the greatest pistol shot around, but I can usually do a little better than pie plate at 25 paces.
Thanks!
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02-06-2011, 10:05 AM
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My favorite "heavy" cast bullet for the .41 Magnum is the 255 CP. CP is the only maker of this bullet and it took them a long time before they would tell me where the mold came from...turns out it is an LBT. I contacted Verl Smith and he said if I sent him some of the bullets he could make me a mold...just have not done it yet.
Please let us know how they shoot. All of mine are loaded with 22 grains of H110. 8.5 grains of Unique should work and get in the area of 950+- fps. They may shoot a little high with the fixed sights...
Bob
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02-06-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun
Edited to add- CPBC bullets are a weight forward design, and as a rule, they need to be driven fast in most calibers to achieve peak performance.
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I thought the whole idea of "weight forward" was to help stabilize them at lower velocities.
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02-06-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellybean
I thought the whole idea of "weight forward" was to help stabilize them at lower velocities.
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The biggest idea behind the weight forward concept is to move as much of the bullet out in front of the case as is practical, to allow more room in the case for powder space, or to "enlarge" the combustion chamber.
Both John Taffin, and Brian Pearce have written about the LBT designs, and the fact that they need to be driven fairly fast to achieve greatest accuracy. Neither one said that they aren't accurate, and neither did I, but just that their peak performance comes at highest velocities, while Keith type bullets are generaly quite accurate even at fairly low velocity.
Another reason behind the LBT design, it to open as wide a wound channel as possible by having a very large meplat (the flat on the end of the bullet's nose), and to do that, you need to move a lot of bullet mass out in front.
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02-06-2011, 01:10 PM
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It sounds as if the "weight forward" design of the LBTs are more of a result of attaining other desired design factors rather than being THE desired design.
I was referring more to the hollow based wadcutter designed by Ed McGivern, sold as Ideal/Lyman #358395, which was designed for low to full velocity loads. The same weight forward concept has also been used for shotgun slugs that do not spin at all, with excellent results.
The LBT designs probably don't do well at low velocities because that is exactly what they were not designed for. Maybe accuracy at slower velocities can be obtained if they are seated a little deeper to use up some of that excess space. Just a thought.
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02-06-2011, 10:13 PM
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I am interested to know how the heavyweights shoot in the 41/Model 58...be sure to let us know after you send a few downrange
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02-07-2011, 11:49 AM
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I use 8.5 grains of Unique behind my cast 210 grain SWC's, and I have no complaints on accuracy or recoil in my Model 58.
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02-07-2011, 03:49 PM
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I fired 5 shots of 8.5 grs. Unique and 5 shots with 9.5 grs. Unique with this 255 cast bullet. I could not find load data for Unique and this bullet weight in any of my manuals. Do not try this in your gun. This is for informational purposes only.
They both grouped about 4" at 25 yards in my 58. No keyholes. The 8.5 gr. load had easy extraction. The 9.5 load was a little bit stiff, so I'm not loading any more with that charge. I'm not impressed with Unique and this bullet. Maybe some AA9 loaded to the upper end would be better.
I did shoot some 210 Nosler JHP's.
16 grs. 2400 - ~2" with a lot of flash
16 grs. of AA9 - ~2" with little flash
16 grs. N110 - ~2" with little flash
10.5 grs. of HS-6 - ~3" and a pleasant low recoil load to shoot.
I'm really starting to like AA9 in this caliber. N110 is good also, but hard to find. I can buy AA9 locally.
Moderators feel free to remove my Unique load data if necessary. Thanks.
Last edited by GregG; 02-07-2011 at 03:52 PM.
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02-07-2011, 05:48 PM
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Did you notice any difference in point of impact between the slow moving heavy bullet and the 210s...?
If you want a heavy LBT bullet that takes up more powder space, try the 250, either plain or gaschecked. It is the same bullet Federal uses in the CastCore load. Using H110 to the base of the bullet when seated, I get 22 grains of powder when the 255 is used compared to only 20 when the 250 is used...in both loads the ejection is smooth and most of the time the cases come partially out of the chambers when the gun is inverted. Very long pressure curve...
Bob
Last edited by SuperMan; 02-07-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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02-07-2011, 08:26 PM
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I was expecting the 255's to impact higher on the target, but they didn't. They did group to the right about an inch though.
Thanks for the info.
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02-08-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun
You need to be aware of the fact that S&W's have a rifling twist rate that is too slow (1-18 3/4" IIRC) to properly stabilize slugs heavier than about 220 grains.
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Where did you get this bit of info?
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02-08-2011, 12:16 PM
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John Taffin goes into it a bit in his book Big Bore Handguns, and I have experienced similar problems personally.
See my posts in the other thread on the .41.
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