Can anyone e mail or PM me a copy of 38 special data . I'm primarily interested in 158 LSWCHP data . Thanks,
Andy

Over Pensacola on Saturday morning . . .

That's funny !!!!!!!!! Seriously I'm not gonna go crazy . Gotta a bunch of Lyman # 358156 & 358665HP's to load up along with new Starline +P cases . Guns are all +P rated .

That's funny...

Erich's 38 special velocities are higher than a medical marijuana "patient" on Colfax Ave..

BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer 8, 2nd Edition, 1971 :: aag

That's 2nd Edition data.

Just be aware some of the starting loads from Speer #8 exceed the max of current load data. You may want to cross check with current powder manufacturer data to see where you are at.

The #8 manual, is the ONLY time I have written Speer, or another loading book seller, about anything.

I won't give the specifics here, but a VERY nice Model 15 Smith was junk, after a TWO grain lighter powder charge than they listed as max.

I know that others think it is the Holy Grail, but BE CAREFUL with that data, especially the IMR 4756 stuff.

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NRA Instructor

Can you elaborate?

There are tons of loads in that manual. Some, believe it or not, are less than what is listed in today's manuals.

Personally, I use SR4756 as a go to powder for those 38/44 type loads.

I just wouldn't shoot them in a "K" frame revolver. Oh, I have a few just for trial and error, which there was none of, error that is.

The platform is too light for those kinds of loads. That is, unless you like having gun prematurely worn out. I don't subscribe to the idea that these loads will blow up a modern day "K" frame.

On that note though, they did call the load of the day: 38/44 though. Load all you want, only shoot them in something that has been chambered in 44 or 45 caliber though.

My 2 centavos!

Well, I shoot Speer #8 SR 4756 loads in a K frame and it just keeps on ticking, but it isn't a .38 Special K frame. Of course, it should also be noted that Speer used a M14 to test their loads in.

Yes, they did use pressure test guns for the loads, but they weren't according to SAAMI specifications. The guns had special single shot cylinders fitted to them with a transducer mounted in the cylinder.

You may also want to check Handloader #243 for Pearce's article on 38-44 handloads. The first table lists 38 SP +P loads @ 20Kpsi. The only 2 that compare directly with the Speer #8 for the same bullet use 700-X, where he is just slightly below the Speer #8 max, and HS-6 where he is below the Speer #8 start load. Pearce is not a handloading writer known for publishing watered down loads as is so common these days, but he is careful about discussing, presenting and testing the ones he does.

I'm in the 'like the SR4756 loads' too, but definately reserve them for something a little more robust than my old Model 14-2. They work great in any Ruger even if chambered in 38 SP, and possibly, although I ain't necessarily claiming it, a heavy barrel Model 64-3. That gun is just so tight and accurate I don't see any need to put heavier wear than necessary on it. That's what SP101s are for (and they get the full 38-44 treatment!).

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" I said, good DAY! "

I once read that Speer had received a batch of improperly calibrated copper slugs that where used in the copper crush pressure testers. This resulted in an issue of their reloading manual having some very hot loads. They corrected this situation in the next manual.

Components have changed since the No. 8 manual was published and most of the bullets, specially for handguns, are no longer in production so be careful to work up loads and use a chrono to see how fast the rounds are really being pushed to get some feel for pressures. You make a big leap in faith believing that just because it was once published that the load data is golden.

On the topic of the #8 and just for the interest of those members who remember THE LOAD, I have run a few through my 2" Chiappa Rhino and found it actually keyholes from that gun. Very weird, as it was a real laser in various S&W guns. Just goes to show you that guns continue to have their prejudices . . .

As I stated before, they were using a transducer mounted in the cylinder, no need for copper pellets with that system.

http://www.bbhfarm.com/albums/album18/aab.jpg

http://www.bbhfarm.com/gallery/album18/aac?full=1

A week ago I tried one of the loads from my copy of #8 and was disappointed. They claim 1155 fps from a 6" barrel with 11g of 2400 behind a 158g lead bullet. I was shooting a 5" HD and didn't have the chronograph that day but it sure didn't feel like a near magnum round. A good, healthy 38 Special but I was hoping for a duplicate of the 38/44 the gun was made for.

I've ordered a copy of the Handloader magazine issue with the 38/44 article. I'm looking forward to see what the author says and I plan to do some chrono work in an upcoming range trip.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Dave,
I must confess that I have NEVER been disappointed with velocity using the Speer #8 data but I don't use the 2400 load either!

The SR4756 loads work as published, I can attest to that!

I have clocked 13.5 gr of 2400 using a 358429 and get around 1270 fps MV. That was using .38 Special brass out of a 6" M28-2, with the "short" cylinder. I used a standard primer, but Speer data is based on a magnum primer for the 11.0 gr load and that may make a good bit of difference in the achieved velocity.

and don't use Remington Small Pistol Primers with the 158 grain LSWC SR4756 loads.... oh yeah, start 20% below minimum, too.

While you are waiting for your Handloader to arrive, you can bump your load of 2400 up to 12.5gr as the start load, using Starline +P brass, and a Fed 100, for the data listed therein for a 358156. Reported velocity is 1147fps for a 6.5" Outdoorsman, and my experience is that when he reports a velocity you will get what you expect all things being equal. Top end is 13.5gr for 1264fps, but check the article as you work up to it.
[!This is a 38-44 level load to be used only in suitable guns!]
There is some great info there ...have fun!

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" I said, good DAY! "

I don't think I'll be trying that load in my 642!

Pleasantly surprised to find my back issue of Handloader in today's mail. If Pierce is right and those are really 38/44 loads then the #8 load for 2400 is kind of mild. No wonder it seemed to under perform.

The stuff I've seen in print says the original factory 38/44 load did about 1150 fps with a 158g bullet. The Buffalo Bore 38 Special +P load is rated at 1164 fps from a 4" barrel so it has been my standard of comparison. The 11g 2400 load doesn't feel anything like the BB load and I'm willing to bet it won't chronograph like it either.

Off to the shop to try a little more 2400. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

11gr of 2400 under 158s in 38spl case chronyed 900fps from a 4in Security Six .357 for me-Not a bad load but NOT much of a 38/44 loading.

Nope, wouldn't do that!
They are kinda useful in one of the new Model 60 357s or an SP101 though (or a 38 Special chambered SP101 for that matter), being a little faster to recharge from a speedloader.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Dave, Dave, Dave. Don't you know that EVERY load in the Speer #8 is an atomic load just waiting to blow up your favorite firearm, kill you and your kids, or any other innocent bystanders!

Please, I have built my reputation on being a Speer #8 user, don't mess that up by mentioning that a load could be less dangerous than previously believed!

Skip,

Sorry. Didn't mean to burst anyone's bubbles. Maybe it felt so mild because I was shooting it in a 1937 HD. That goes back even further than the #8 manual. They don't make guns like that any more ya know! Of course they don't appear to print loading manuals like that any more either! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

One of the interesting things about Speer #8 is the .38 Special 158 gr LSWC load data for just about every slow powder, except H110/W296. H110/W296 was around at the time, since it shows up in 158 gr LSWC .357 loads, but they weren't in the same ballpark as what is in the current data.