I have been shooting up some lead bullets friend gave me. They are 148 gr lead double ended wad cutters. The old book I am using shows a min and max load of 3.2 gr for unique. I have been shooting these loaded like this and they work fine. They are still a little stout from my 642 but real pussycats in my 686. I do think at times I am getting a little key holing with my 642 but the 686 is a tack driver with them. Today I loaded up the last of them with 3.2 gr unique. I looked down in the case and realized just how little powder was in the case. Is this load too light? Is there any danger in running such a small powder charge? I only have about 200 left that are loaded up like this so it is not really a big deal. I guess it is more for my own knowledge that I want to know.

I run a "goodly number" of dbl ended cast w/c's in my .38/,357's. I cast the H&G #251.

They respond with better accuracy when running Bullseye from 3.2-3.5 grs. I seat the bullet with the first band out of the case for better alignment of the cylinder throats and taper crimp on the tail end of the first band. I seat the bullets "sprue up" so that the perfect nose becomes the perfect base (the base of the bullet is the "steering wheel").

Your load is too light. Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook shows a 150 gr W/C ahead of 3.7-4.2 grs of Unique.

Dale53

I don’t disagree at all. Unfortunately I loaded them all up tonight. Do you think if I pulled a few I would mess them up to badly to reload? It would be interesting to try them over 3.7gr of unique.

Several of the guys at my gun club (including me) run DEWC or HBWC with 2.4gr Bullseye or 2.4gr Titegroup for PPC. Those loads are lighted than most modern starting loads...way light.
According to my 45th Lymann book, there are a few lead bullet loads (168gr, 195gr) using 3.0gr of Unique. Others listed starting charge is 3.5gr of Unique.
At 3.2gr, you should be fine. See what others here have to say.

Thread drift:

This is not a slap at anyone, so, Ceapea, don't take it wrong. I just don't understand the logic behind the "super mouse F**t" loads for gaming. Two reasons, #1 being, there is no way to keep from chasing a squib in the rapid fire drills and #2 it gives someone a false sense of accomplishment with a firearm. I've seen them, sure you have too, the "Gunslinger" that games with a gun. The problem in my mind comes when they have to fire full force loads. Are their skills up to dealing with the recoil, muzzle blast?

I have shot PPC, mostly an indoor gallery type, for a few years now. I came in third the first year I shot it using a standard 38spl load of 3.5gr of Bullseye under a 158gr LSWC.

From that time forward, I came to be the range officer in many matches and ran a PPC league for a time. That took me out of the competition for placement but still, I used those loads and could wind up in the top 2 or three every time. That was with a standard out of the box M586 6" with no trigger work too. I could usually spank those that used custom guns as well, even the autos.

Sorry for the thread drift. Personally, I am going to use my gaming as practice for life. Just me though!

I agree with you. See one of my other threads about what i want to do with my new 38 SPL loads. I am looking to load up rounds that are closer to a true 38 spl like i would use if push came to shove.

In the future i will be using diff bullets loaded up to more normal FPS. But the loading book i had only said 3.2gr of unigue for the 148 gr DEWC and i am new to reloading. i am seeing that most books are just a starting point and not set in stone.

Just thought I'd add...I am a big fan of the double ended wad cutter (148 gr) in the .38 Special. I use 3.4 grains of Titegroup. A nice moderate load with great accuracy and control in the K frame. A bit snappy in the J frame...but still fun to shoot. I agree with previous posters....weak loads can be just as dangerous as hot loads. And yes, these buggers need to be seated deeply to ensure chambering, I crimp the same as described in previous post.

As a technique, after all my cases are charged (50 at a time) and sitting in the cartridge block, I take a penlight and visually check the powder level in each case. First, row by row, and then again column by column. Better safe than sorry.

Cap

I use 5.0 grains of Unique.

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I believe in the wadcutter.

Mind if I ask which old book you are using?

The threat of reduced loads, other than the slowest of slow burning powders, or others that have specific warnings, is with drastic reductions. You shouldn't have any problems with your load.

148 gr. DEWC ...38 Special....CCI 500 SPP....3.5 Unique
This load works well for me.

I too am a firm believer in the 148gr DEWC, as It's the only bullet I load in 38 any more. I reserve my 158gr for .357.
I've always loaded the sprue to the rear as I've always figured the more perfect end would cut the air in flight in a more even/true way?

I like a 3.3gr of Bullseye and yes I feel your charge of 3.2gr Unique is way too light. I'd bump it up to 4.0 with no reservations.

I loaded 4.0 gr of Unique under a 125 LRNFP in a .38 Special and had a lot of unburned powder. I'll save the Unique for other applications from now on.

Remember, DEWC seats deaper than the WC so there will be more pressure. When loading DEWC keep this in mind.

Actually, I use three loads for my 148 grain DEWC. 3.5 grains Bullseye, 4.0 grains Red Dot and 5.0 grains Unique. All very accurate out to 25 yards. If I plan on shooting at a longer distance, I load 158 grain SWC instead. (Same powder measurements.)

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I believe in the wadcutter.

Seating depth isn't the issue in this case. A 148 gr. bullet contains the same volume of metal no matter what the shape. Both a hollow base and bevel base or DEWC take up exactly the same case volume assuming thet are seated to the same over-all length. Don't forget the volume inside the hollow base is still part of the total case capacity.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Its an old Lee book. i got it from my friend to learn how to reload. i read it, copied the pages i needed and gave it back to him. but from what i recall it was a older lee book.

Assumimg they are seated to the same inside depth and are the same weight. Some in this thread are talking about other types and weight bullets, also.
I agree that 5 grains Unique and DEWC in 38 special cases is a load used by many with no issues. I like 3.5 for light revolvers and target shooting/plinking. However, I do have hotter loads using Unique.

I am no fan of using Unique in light loads. I have never loaded Unique in the .38 Special any lighter than 4.0 grains with 158 grain bullets and prefer 4.5 grains to 4.8 grains. If a person wants to make Unique REALLY burn dirty as its reputation then load it light. In admittedly very limited chronograph tests in .32-20, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP I have formed a notion that Unique will give higher extreme spreads than it will if a bit more powder is ladled into the case.

I like Bulls-Eye for very light loadings.

No wrong taking here.
My 7th edition Hornady shows all three (two are discontinued) of their 148gr WC's loaded down to 2.4gr of Unique for 550 FPS. I think that based on that, 3.2 is not "light" in the least.
3.2gr falls right at 700 FPS. That seems about right for a target 38 spl. load.

Lee was my first guess when you said 3.2 was the min and max. load. Lee claims they get their data from the powder companies, which is hard to say, but it sure looks like they adjust the loads to make sure the start load works with their powder thingys. I'm not their biggest fan by the way.

If you are using their powder thingys they like to err on the side of caution with their load data and anyone using their stuff should use a scale to verify the loads they are actually getting.

I use 4.9-5.0 grains of Unique over a CCI500 and under a 148 gr. hardcast DEWC.

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x

As usual, I have something to say about the use of Unique in the .38 Special. I believe the 3.2/3.3 gr Unique load under the 148 gr DBWC to be perfectly adequate. I don't see any reason to hotrod this load.
BTW, my DBWCs are pure lead; I wouldn't want to push them any faster. Deadly as heck on bunnies and the like. Will stop large feral dogs if you do your part (it's amazing how wonderfully Fido can focus your attention).
Like the 158 gr RNL over 4.3 gr Unique load I espouse, will not knock down satellites nor stop charging brown bears. It is accurate and it is a .38 Special.

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and what his trumpet saith

The 5.0 Unique with a 148 gr. DEWC load that has been mentioned is a formidable self-defense loading for a J-frame snubby. Chrono'd a little over 900 fps out of a M642 w/ 1 7/8" barrel. For those who don't like the metering qualities of Unique try Universal. Slighly less Universal gave me similar velocities with the 148 gr. DEWC. I'm not a big fan of either powder in reduced loadings.

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Andy

Probably way too late but anyways....load them with the sprue cut up front;looks uglier but bullet flight is driven from the back end.You should get more accuracy that way.

I know I'm very late in this but(and I hope you read me Skip)if somebody tells you that he doubts what you've said,one of my good friend is 2 years in a row Canada champ in PPC(i know,in Ca.,we have 10% the US population's got but lots of US guys were and are competing up here).He's done it with a stock S&W 686 with an over the regular barrel weight added.
I myself competed with some success enough with an almost stock gun to say,as my friend says:''95% of the shooting performance is being generated between both your ears''.

Qc Pistolero

The best target loads are often light loads. And light loads with faster powders are often just a tad in the bottom of the case. I like 2.7 gr Bullseye with 148 gr WCs.

The only danger in a TOO light load is a squib that sticks in the barrel followed by another shot. A good target load should be far more powerful than any load that could cause a squib, so don't go down too light.

NOTE: A danger in light loads of fast burning target powders is unintentional double or triple charging which will demolish a gun. Check to make sure that you DO NOT double load powder. Check the cases with a flashlight after charging.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

My old Speer #8 manual does not show Unique with the 148gr
bullet.
My oldest Lyman list 3.5grs of Unique as the lowest data with
the lighter lead bullets.

In my 2" snub J frame;
3.5grs of CFE Pistol powder did 605 fps.
590fps is my cut off in the short barrel to prevent squibs.

3.5grs with a much slower powder may be asking for problems.
A "Starting load" of SR 4756 in my revolver had a low of 558fps !!
One reason to not go below a starting load until proven to be safe
in your weapons.

I would play it safe and pull those loads.

Well, since my two posts above, from quite a while ago, I have done some more experimenting with these 148 gr DEWC's.

I did end up settling on 2.3 gr Bullseye. But in the course of testing, I have tried 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4 gr of Unique. I found the both 3.0 and 3.2 gr were just about the exact same as my 2.3 gr of B.E. accuracy wise.
But, due to the fact that Unique has never liked any of my measures, I continue to use Bullseye.
I have fired over 30k of these light loads in the weights that I listed so far, and I have never had an issue. And with more than 25 other guys shooting very similar loads, no one has ever stuck a bullet. We're talking way over 150k rounds. Really, way over 400k rounds over the last 4 years alone!
No issues.
Search some PPC competition threads and you will see that 99% of the guys use loads way below book. Current books, that is. The old books listed many light loads.

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Thugs that comply don’t die!