Calling All 696 Owners

[BillBro]

I recently aquired a stellar example of the original model, the coveted "no-" from an upstanding member here and have gathered some needed reloading components to get started except for the powders I really wanted to try, the ones that seem so popular for the 44Spl, one in particular, the ever elusive Unique. I do have A#7, A#5, A#2, IMR4227,CFE Pistol, HS-6, True Blue, Silohuette, VV N340 AND one lonely little pound of Herco. For bullets Ive got XTP's in every weight except 300gr, 500 429421 cast bullets, some Speer 200gr SWCHP's and some plated 240gr RNFP bullets.
What do you like to shoot in your 696? What do you shoot on a regular basis? Im aware of the thin forcing cones on these guns and dont want to get into catagory 3 pressures on the regular (yes Ive read the Brian Pearce articles) but Ive read from other 696 owners that something like catagory 2 is fine and should I want to sleep with it on the nightstand and feel confident in its abilities to end someones bad intentions something in that catagory (2) should help change their mind.

What loads do you like to practice with? Are y'all handloading practice rounds and (if youre carrying) using something like Buffalo Bore for business?

For the more experienced handloaders than myself, what would you be inclined to try with the above components for either type of round?

Oh, and I just bought 500 new Starline cases and have CCI300, Winchester LPPs and Federal 155 Gold Medal Match magnum primers.

Not looking to get a specific load or load data at all, maybe just the more suitable powders and bullet amongst what I currently have. Ive lost hope of finding ANY Alliant powders so theyre out.

Anyway, thanks for any pointers.

[STORMINORMAN]

Hornady Custom 180gr XTPs in 44 Special (now discontinued) were spec'd @1000fps and 400 ft/lbs from the factory...

Per Hodgdons, 8.7gr of #5 duplicates that load at 14,000 psi.

We spend a lot of time trying to develop a twin for a factory SD load: can't imagine what threat (two-legged, anyway) this wouldn't cover...?

Cheers!

P.S. This compares very favorably with a similar factory 180gr XTP in 40 S&W with a bit more velocity, energy and bullet diameter.

[BillBro]

Thanks storminNorman, I happen to have those ingredients. Of course though, #5 is the powder I have the least of, 1lb and I just made an order with Hodgdon and they were out of #5. I use alot of #5 for 45acp with a 200gr XTP which is a +p pressure round but gives me 973fps and 13 SD with ES of 24 over 14 shots and obviously good enough accuracy that I loaded 250 rounds of it to keep for a rainy day. Wicked load in my Valor.

I definitely have plenty enough to load some for the Special though. Im just itching to load something and get the 696 to the range, havent even shot it yet. So, Im not looking only to clone a SD load but also a good plinking load as well.

I wish I had gotten into the 44Spl sooner, its a cartridge that always intrigued me for whatever reason. Its such an old cartridge I should know more but learning is a big part of the fun.

Thanks very much for the info.

[STORMINORMAN]

Well, since you have another one of my favorites, I will also suggest 6.5 gr of CFE-Pistol for just about any 200 gr bullet you like, and 6.0 gr of the same for the heavier ones in the 240-250 gr range. This will give you plenty of room to work up a load you like for plinking, etc. Bullet design and even composition won't be crucial as these are just mid-range loads straight from the Hodgdons website. Jacketed, plated, cast or coated should all work fine: IMHO the 44 Special is really one of the easiest and most rewarding calibers to reload. Big cases, big bullets, low pressures and fun to shoot.

I don't know off hand how long the cylinder in your L-frame is, but longer OALs shouldn't be any problem, either. If they have a cannelure, just load 'em to the can.

Cheers!

[dwh]

I’ve shot thousands of rounds in my 696 loaded with 7-7.5grs.of universal with a 240gr.sec. They produce velocity’s 875fps-910fps depending on the charge. I’ve also used 2400 and a 240gr. XTP.

[dsf]

I have a 696 "no dash" also and for plinking tend to use Penn Bullets 200 grain FNRP about 900 fps. Penn also sells a 245 grain "Thunderhead" nearly full meplat if you're interested, using Alliant 2400. Gets 1,150 fps out of a 4" bbl. I use it sparingly in the 696 and very sparingly in a Charter Arms Bulldog.

[zeke]

Am fan of loading for the 696, and use mostly 200 gn bullets. A 200 grain lrnfp at about 800 fps (hp-38), and a speer 200 gdhp at 900 fps (unique/v v-n350) for vermin load. Having same weight bullets at similar velocity keep poi similar. Occasionally use 180 jhp's at about 1000 fps (unique) .

All loads relatively easy to control from the relatively 696, and have 44 mags for heavier stuff.

[ironhead7544]

The Speer 200 gr Gold Dot Factory loads goes 820 fps from the 696. A handload with that bullet will make a good load.

The Skeeter load will go 840 fps. Probably would handle 95% of anything you might want to do with a handgun.

A 200 gr cowboy cast bullet with a minimum load of #2 makes a good practice load.

What Speer SWC do you have? Is it the 225 gr half jacket?

[BillBro]

Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions folks. Sadly though, like all of the Alliant powders Ive not see Universal for sale anywhere in quite the while. Fortunately, and unfortunately what I listed above is what I have.

Im really diggin on some CFE Pistol too. Thats why I just ordered 3 more pounds of it. I have loaded it in some Spl cases but fire them from my m29 4" and as far as accuracy goes I was quite happy. I was shooting 200gr Noslers at 25yds and put 5 of the 6 in less than 1.5" cluster, off a rest though so..... I went from 6.3gr to 6.9gr with the 200gr Noslers and the CDE pistol and the 6.9gr charge was the best of them.

The Speer bullet I have is actually the 200gr SJHP, #4425
and Ive been looking for Gold Dots for forever because the GD is just about my favorite bullet because Ive just had such good results with them in both handguns and rifle calibers, and they perform great. In fact I just scored 500 124gr GDs for the 9mm's.

Zeke and dsf, glad to hear you both have and like the 696. Mine is a no- but apparently as new as you can get, from what Im told from the seller, who is a well regarded member here, it should be less than 100 rounds, more like 75 and judging by the bore I have to agree. I borescoped it and its about the most beautiful thing Ive seen. Didnt I hear that these were made about the time that English group bought S&W and brought in all new machinery?

Well Im standing here looking at 100 new Starline cases, guess I should prime some and get out the CFE. Oh, what about the HS-6? I shot some really nice loads with that too. Again , in my m29 though.

Thanks again.

[zeke]

The Speer 200 gn GDHP factory loads used to come in 2 different flavors. The brass cased version was loaded to low 800's, but the aluminum cased version got very close to 900 fps. At least back when i chronoed them, which is awhile ago.

The 696's had at least 3 variations, with the earliest having the firing pin in the hammer. Used to have 3 of them, but sold off one to finance other interest. The chamber throats are tight, which help with the fine accuracy have gotten from all the ones owned. The trigger mechanism is the older geometry configuration, and easy to smooth up. Took the trouble to break in the barrel and smooth it up, which eliminated any leading from the common hard cast 200 lrnfp's.

The 696 appealed to me for having 45 acp power in a L-frame. While heavy, it is compact and the houge bantam's fit me perfectly.

Bought them when no one else wanted them, lightly used at $350 apiece. Yes , that was awhile ago.

[Nevada Ed]

In my parts, there was never a real nead for a .44 revolver......

but if I lived in a state that gave you more than one deer tag a year....
and had wild pigs running all over the place........

I would have scooped one of those 6" barrel sweet heart in a heart beat !!

Enjoy that fine shooter that you have there....
and best of luck rounding up loads for it.

[BillBro]

Zeke, I havent been inside of this one and I dont tjink anyone else has either but I am super impressed with the action of this little gun. Its very smooth. I guess someone could have swapped springs but it has a nice light and very smooth pull.

Mine has the hammer mounted pin, its the original model. Dont know about inside yet but from what Im seeing outside and in the yoke/crane area and both ends of the cylinder it has about the cleanest machining of a S&W Ive seen.

I was going to ask about the chamber throats, they do seem tight, very tight. I dont have gauge pins so I just used some mic'd bullets and the smallest I have are .430" and they wont go in, Im guessing .429-ish? Will it be to the detriment or benefit of accuracy to go much over that? I have a bunch of .431" cast 245gr Keith SWC I was at least wanting to try.

By rhe way, may I ask exactly how you broke in the barrel? Ive done this with a few rifles only because they were quite spendy and the barrel makers recommended it so I thought OK, Ill play. Otherwise I usually dont waste my barrel life and Ive never done it with a pistol. Jist curious.

[daverich4]

Don’t know if this will help but there’s some useful information in it.

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/4...cial-pet-loads

[zeke]

Originally Posted by BillBro

Zeke, I havent been inside of this one and I dont tjink anyone else has either but I am super impressed with the action of this little gun. Its very smooth. I guess someone could have swapped springs but it has a nice light and very smooth pull.

Mine has the hammer mounted pin, its the original model. Dont know about inside yet but from what Im seeing outside and in the yoke/crane area and both ends of the cylinder it has about the cleanest machining of a S&W Ive seen.

I was going to ask about the chamber throats, they do seem tight, very tight. I dont have gauge pins so I just used some mic'd bullets and the smallest I have are .430" and they wont go in, Im guessing .429-ish? Will it be to the detriment or benefit of accuracy to go much over that? I have a bunch of .431" cast 245gr Keith SWC I was at least wanting to try.

By rhe way, may I ask exactly how you broke in the barrel? Ive done this with a few rifles only because they were quite spendy and the barrel makers recommended it so I thought OK, Ill play. Otherwise I usually dont waste my barrel life and Ive never done it with a pistol. Jist curious.

My cylinder mouths measured .429, and the 200 lrnfp being used measure same, or .430. They have a minimal bearing surface. The few cracked forcing cones i remember reading about were with heavier loaded keith style bullets.

Broke the barrel in with several batches of jacketed loads, while cleaning down to bare metal in between range trips. Then used a lewis lead remover plunger with patch/ with the bore paste used for cleaning (forget it's current name). Then repeat with chrome polish. Even the beveled base hard lead commercial loads don't lead. Did it for ease of future cleaning.

Don't believe it noticeably reduces bore life. IMO, this era revolvers had much better da triggers.

[BLUEDOT37]

Originally Posted by BillBro

I was going to ask about the chamber throats, they do seem tight, very tight. I dont have gauge pins so I just used some mic'd bullets and the smallest I have are .430" and they wont go in, Im guessing .429-ish?

My 396NG had throats at ~.4285", using my pin gages.

I used a Dave Manson 44 Cal Cylinder Throater Reamer with Removable Pilot Pak to open them up.

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[BillBro]

Bluedot, I have those in my Brownells cart, just havent committed yet. I took the 696 to the range yesterday and was shooting jacketed and it seemed to do ok. I was shooting XTPs and Speer bullets but I ultimately want to use good cast bullets.

Mansons reamer is what, .429"? So then I would want .430"?

It did really well with a 9gr charge of VN340 a d a 180gr XTP. Those were my first shots with my 696 and after adjusting the sight a little it was doing well.

15yds unsuppprted.

[BillBro]

By the way and since I currently have the ears of you fellow 696 owners would any of you mind posting good pics of the finish of yours? Are they all the sort of semi-polished surface? Were and the beaded finish? Mine could use a little attention, its not bad but its bad enough to warrant a little touch up.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

In my parts, there was never a real nead for a .44 revolver......

but if I lived in a state that gave you more than one deer tag a year....
and had wild pigs running all over the place........

I would have scooped one of those 6" barrel sweet heart in a heart beat !!

Enjoy that fine shooter that you have there....
and best of luck rounding up loads for it.

Well, If ya ever need to punch big holes in "sumpthin" the 44/45's do it pretty well.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Mine with Rossi 720. Mine's kinda shiny.

[BLUEDOT37]

Originally Posted by BillBro

Mansons reamer is what, .429"? So then I would want .430"?

When I called to talk to them about the items I wanted to order I asked what was the minimum diameter of the T44C throater reamer.

They told me .4310-.4315". Mine measured .4314".

My reamed throats check somewhere between a .430" pin gage (GO) & .431" pin gage (NO-GO), which are actually .4298" & .4308" respectively.

I believe they're closer to the NO-GO size than the GO size.

The T44C comes with a (removable) .4270" pilot bushing (measured .4272").

I paid for the optional (6) bushing pack (PP44C) which turned out good as not all the original throat sizes were the same size & I used a couple different ones.

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[rkrcpa]

[Rlg#17]

Hogdon titegroup powder. Around 5 grains is a likable load for 200 grain! Runs in the 850-900 fps range with moderate pressure! My 696 loves this load with moa or sub moa accuracy depending on how I hold it!

Regards,
Rick Gibbs

[THE PILGRIM]

Have only shot a few Cowboy loads in mine.
Don’t reload and don’t have much 44 Special Ammo,
So the Cowboy loads are an obvious choice.

[BillBro]

Well I do have plenty of titegroup. Now I need more bullets too.�� I just got 3lbs of trueblue, 3 lbs of A7 and 3lbs of CFE pistol yesterday. I wish I could find more A5 now. Im down to half a pound. Havent shot any vast bullets yet but going to load up some 429421's tonight for this weekend, dont have any cast lighter.

My trueblue and N340 loads were right close to 1000fps but the A5 ( upper end of charge range too) only gave me mid 700's, weird. I sure liked the way the A5 load felt though, just a soft thump insted of the slap of the other two powders.

[.45mtngun]

Bill Bro,
I have used the Manson throat reamers for .45 Colt throats and you will want to use a good amount of cutting oil in the process and go very slowly. What i did was cut the head off a .45 shell case that would fit in the cylinder with a Dermel cutting disc and smoothed the inside and outside edges. I put the case in the cylinder and ran the reamer through it as kind of a "guide". You will certainly want to get all the different throat guides with the reamer. I didn't and had to order the set. Just go slow and only one direction reaming and backing out and you should be ok. I have reloaded .44 Special for many years and you will enjoy it. I have only used cast bullet. Take your time with the cylinder and it will work out.
Jim